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Flying Cars And Roadable Aircraft

Stargazer2006

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Brilliant feat, and a very nice design indeed.

However, while I was watching this, I was struck with the realisation that the concept of flying cars CAN'T work for yet another reason: when you car gets hit in traffic, you may still drive for miles with a couple of bumps... but if the flying car gets only the slightest notch from a passing motorcyclist or gets hit at a stop point because the guy behind doesn't brake fast enough, you may put your life in danger...
 

Jemiba

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http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3556.msg205258.html#msg205258

;)

Skyblazers objections are quite substantial, I think, not only because of the of endangering the
driver/pilot himself, but probably because of aviation laws. Just hitting the kerbside a little bit harsh,
may result in a complete inspection. Do you ever brought your car to the garage, because of such a
minor mishap ? But safety levels for aircraft are more stringent, I think.
 

Bgray

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Skyblazer said:
Brilliant feat, and a very nice design indeed.

However, while I was watching this, I was struck with the realisation that the concept of flying cars CAN'T work for yet another reason: when you car gets hit in traffic, you may still drive for miles with a couple of bumps... but if the flying car gets only the slightest notch from a passing motorcyclist or gets hit at a stop point because the guy behind doesn't brake fast enough, you may put your life in danger...
My biggest question is: what is their use? We all know the tradeoffs needed for VTOL and most flying cars will have that and worse, because the ground carriage has to be usable for long periods of time, not just to and from the landing strip. Contrary to some promotional videos, I really doubt the FAA is going to be cool with peole just taking off from their frontyard, especially if they're in a city. So your car won't fly you to work-- it'll fly you to an airport, where you land (probably after being delayed by crowded airspace) and THEN drive to work.

I can see some uses for this idea-- police come to mind, but nothing like the general popularity most boosters of the concept seem to see.
 

Grey Havoc

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http://asia.nikkei.com/Tech-Science/Tech/Toyota-sees-a-future-of-flying-cars

Interesting. From the scant detail available, it sounds like a GEV, possibly with an advanced autopilot.
 

steelpillow

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Coming late to this party, what is the technical difference between a flying car and a roadable aircraft?

Would one of them be easier to do, or more useful, than the other?
 

Grey Havoc

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The major difference would be that a true flying car would be VTOL or VSTOL, while a roadable aircraft would generally need a airfield runway or similar, and (depending on design/implementation) some of the same facilities GA aircraft need. There are however 'true' roadable aircraft designs that are STOL and can use a variety of take-off/landing areas such as normal (non-motorway) roads, unploughed fields, etc.

As to which is easier to achieve? It arguably all depends on what exactly you want to achieve with your design.
 

Stargazer2006

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steelpillow said:
Coming late to this party, what is the technical difference between a flying car and a roadable aircraft?

Would one of them be easier to do, or more useful, than the other?
I also think that you could define a "Flying Car" as primarily a car with detachable wings fitted to it, while a "Roadable Aircraft" would be primarily an aircraft with folding wings for road operation and storage.
 

Motocar

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Cutaway Trautman "Roadair" flying car project designed in 1959 by Mr. Trautman for which I think a vehicle of a very aerodynamic profile with two engines one for ground shipments moving a central wheel after yu boxer engine cab Continental and four 80 hp to use air cylinders, which used a driving propeller twist at the bottom was partially hidden in a groove, had two huge vertical surfaces supporting a horizontal stabilizer piece, its wings retracted at the bottom of the fuselage after the opening of two large curved gates, initial capacity had the prototype for a single pilot, but a capacity of two passengers plus the pilot on either side expected, it is noteworthy that this prototype only make a one flight that it rose to only three feet tall and then showed a strong instability that caused its designer and pilot's landing and but never try to fly again, I met this old project in an article in an old Mechanical monthly magazine Popular 1960 whose images accompanying diagrammatic section, unfortunately I lost several copies of the most appreciated of that time, this prototype is shown in the collection of "Fantasy of Flight" in Florida USA, author Motocar based on photographs and speculating on the general arrangement its most important components provisionally absence of more reliable data


Success
 

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Motocar

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Cutaway Sky Technology "Aircar" the ing retired from Bell Helicopters Kenneth Wernicke working for many years in his own version of Auto Volador, study limitations that made it impractical, decided to design a flying car would not have to undergo the "Surgery" before each flight and after this, as in many other designs of flying cars from Gustave Whitehead (I built the first flying car in history) to Terrafugia, not to mention the dozens of projects that were more or less a success in flying but not so successful in sales, auto flying ones who got the media attention were: Paul Taylor and the Aerocar Airphibian but both had to undergo a conversion according to its makers was very simple "removing a screw here and a pin there, "but it should have a place to store the wings and tail when you were not at home, the project engineer. Kenneth Wernicke instead only had to attach the propeller and find the nearest track to fly, its design was quite simple, but his greatest contribution was those very short span wings with large vertical fins (These help reduce aerodynamic drag and generating the necessary stability) this trait made ​​the Aircar a relatively compact vehicle that could patrol the streets and avenues, its engine a Mazda Wankel modified to fly and this in see moving a hydraulic pump that conveyed by high pressure oil traction to the wheels perfectly faired after huge "Pants" which in turn favored stability and reduced drag only would have two speeds forward and backward, and its top speed of only 110 km / h but the air could fly over 300 km / h, with that engine, its designer argued that more advanced models would use turboprop engines higher power that would allow it to fly at almost 500 km / h, after extensive testing of wind tunnel and compare different models, I build one controlled radio that flew very well in the words of Mr. Wernicke, I manufacture a Mockup of the same demonstration but did not get the interest of investors leaving only a technological promise for the contributions and advances made by Wernicke, author Motocar in a free and highly speculative interpretation of Aircar.
 

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hesham

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Great work Motocar,


I hope to see more.
 

Stargazer2006

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Motocar, thanks for sharing your work with us.

I think it would be a good idea to attach your images to the posts instead of just linking them to your own site.
Indeed, we've had many examples in the past of great sites that ceased to be or whose URL changed, and the images no longer appeared, making the discussions sometimes impossible to understand.
By attaching a copy to the site, you have the guarantee that they will continue to be accessible whatever may happen!
Thanks for giving this suggestion some thinking. ;)
 

GTX

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Skyblazer said:
By attaching a copy to the site, you have the guarantee that they will continue to be accessible whatever may happen!

Unless something were to happen to SecretProjects... ;)
 

Stargazer2006

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GTX said:
Unless something were to happen to SecretProjects... ;)
That is an alternative I don't EVER want to even think about!
 

Motocar

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Skyblazer said:
Motocar, thanks for sharing your work with us.

I think it would be a good idea to attach your images to the posts instead of just linking them to your own site.
Indeed, we've had many examples in the past of great sites that ceased to be or whose URL changed, and the images no longer appeared, making the discussions sometimes impossible to understand.
By attaching a copy to the site, you have the guarantee that they will continue to be accessible whatever may happen!
Thanks for giving this suggestion some thinking. ;)
I'll get it and edited my post to share the link to the forums where I participate

http://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/cutaways-cortes-esquem%C3%A1ticos-de-aviones.24700/page-124
 

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GTX said:
Skyblazer said:
By attaching a copy to the site, you have the guarantee that they will continue to be accessible whatever may happen!

Unless something were to happen to SecretProjects... ;)

Well, its only 1 more year until forum's 10th anniversary. Not done too badly so far.
 

Grey Havoc

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
GTX said:
Skyblazer said:
By attaching a copy to the site, you have the guarantee that they will continue to be accessible whatever may happen!

Unless something were to happen to SecretProjects... ;)

Well, its only 1 more year until forum's 10th anniversary. Not done too badly so far.
Let me guess; the ultimate back-up is a stand alone server rack leased from one of those companies with their premises in an old Cold War bunker. ;)
 

hesham

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Hi,


consider an idea from Tremulis designer,an rocket powered flying car.


http://www.gyronautx1.com/live-updates/a-1955-tour-through-fords-advanced-styling-studio-your-tour-guide-alex-tremulis
 

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hesham

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Hi,


my dear Robunos displayed before the Bryan II roadable aircraft,and may be that's
the variant III.


http://books.google.com.au/books?id=htQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA113&dq=Popular+Mechanics+May+1973+PAGE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EleAVJTpJoveaP7igJAB&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Popular%20Mechanics%20May%201973%20PAGE&f=false
 

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hesham

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Hi,


we spoke before about the designer Molt Taylor and his aircraft;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,21343.msg210770.html#msg210770


here is a flying car created by him in 1996;


https://books.google.com.au/books?id=AP8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA38&dq=Boys%27+Life+1996&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CIngVPuyC6iAywO6wIKACw&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
 

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Motocar

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The inspiration for many children of those sixties (Today dreamers and engineers) departed from here Tv series "The Jetsons" and his family flying car ....!
 

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Stargazer2006

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Motocar said:
The inspiration for many children of those sixties (Today dreamers and engineers) departed from here Tv series "The Jetsons" and his family flying car ....!
But Molt Taylor created his first Aerocar a full decade before Hanna-Barbera produced their first cartoon, the Jetsons...
 

Arjen

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Skyblazer said:
But Molt Taylor created his first Aerocar a full decade before Hanna-Barbera produced their first cartoon, the Jetsons...
I'm one of those 60s kids. I remember seeing flying car images for the first time and thinking 'The Jetsons did that. Cool.'
 

Motocar

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When I mention the TV series "The Jetsons" I am conscious that already had many previous attempts that series, it's like the "Amphicars" there from the steam era and the first cars from the early nineteenth century. In this issue there are good examples, in fact the first flying car was the little-known built by the forgotten Gustave Whitehead, and your Whitehead's No. 21 "Condor," it moved overland to own momentum and then spread its wings and fly (flight unrecognized until now) there are several replicas thereof flyers, built several years ago I leave their pictures and a short video of the flight of the replica.
The Jetson are an inspiration to many children of that decade, as was the movie Flash Gordon in the 30's for the children of those years, or more recently the "Star Wars", I myself have dreamed and drawn many projects, my own ideas that might later expose some of those ideas and designs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucm80BYUXEE

Regards
 

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steelpillow

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Whitehead's achievement was all the more remarkable when you realise that he was designing a flying car and not just an aeroplane. The No.21 had two engines, one for the road and a second to be engaged only for flying. It was said to run down the road at a respectable speed for a car of that era, its wings and tail neatly folded against its sides.

But I doubt that it really flew in the accepted sense of being all of powered, sustained and controlled. Powered, yes. Sustained, maybe - but several uncontrolled craft had already done that, including an earlier steam-powered two-seater of his. The No.21 had no effective control system. Whitehead reckoned he could steer it a little by leaning sideways but while that is OK for a hang glider it is hopeless for a powered aeroplane.

His No.22 was a better design in this respect, having twin propellers with differential power feeds for turning. But there is at best insufficient evidence to verify his claim of a long circular flight over water.

It's a real shame that the history of these important flying cars is so buried under the kind of vicious controversy and malicious falsehood that is usually reserved for divorces and political elections.
 

Motocar

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Controversy will always be, my assertion is that inadvertently Whitehead built the first flying car in history that's the point, whether I run this theme is packed with dozens of ideas that example did not materialize the "Roadair" that made a schematic cut quite speculative, during his only attempt at flight just get up about 60 cm of soil but its designer and pilot never returned to try to fly, separated by 60 years in the future and that was the result, I am of the opinion that a flying car the future will be actually a flying motorcycle, they are lighter to only have three wheels and classified so many traffic laws, need not carry all the safety features that command the laws today day for cars. Moreover the Wright brothers had for many own developments and dedication and record all activity, although its first flight (jump) was only 36 meters and did not show much control, which in successive flights were improved in I repeat order Gustave Whitehead was the pioneer of the "Flying Car" that unknowingly

Here I leave the image of a true "Fan" of Supercar and Auto Volador fantastic ......!

Success
 

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Jemiba

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steelpillow said:
... I can't believe that the lift coefficient of the windscreen is that good.
;D

But judging the CG, that is shown with a small spot in the side view and the jet
engine, that is positioned well behind it, I think, the weight distribution may be
ok. The wheels are driven by electric motors, not by a by a piston engine, as the
long, sports car like engine cover suggests. That's just a stylish element, I think.
 

steelpillow

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Jemiba said:
steelpillow said:
... I can't believe that the lift coefficient of the windscreen is that good.
;D

But judging the CG, that is shown with a small spot in the side view and the het
engine, that is positioned well behind it, I think, the weight distribution may be
ok. The wheels are driven by electric motors, not by a bif pisoton engine, as the
long, sports car like engine cover suggests. That's just a stylish element, I think.
The wing's centre of lift is barely in front of the rear wheels. For stability on the road, the centre of gravity will need to be a foot or two further forward. The conventional way to reconcile those is with a downforce from the tail - in which case I do not believe the required wing loading. The only other way is to generate strong lift from the windscreen and bonnet, which I also do not see. No, this is not a real design, it is a concept.
 

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steelpillow

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Just to be an idle pedant.
The difference between this and the Mizar is that the latter's wings and car separated. The CG when separated (as a road car) and the CG when assembled to fy were in different places. With the wings, the CG moved aft almost to the rear wheels and the car was barely balanced on the ground. Takeoff and landing could be a bit hairy, and ISTR seeing photos of it sitting up and begging. Even given a wide empty airfield to play in, this was not an assembly you could just drive around.
The GF7 does not have this luxury. Its CG is stuck in one place, leaving one or the other travel mode hopelessly unbalanced. Nor does it matter where the weight distribution puts the CG. The only thing the weight distribution affects is which travel mode it upsets, if not both.
 

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steelpillow said:
Just to be an idle pedant.
No, just precise, I think.
And you're right, the comparison to the Mizar was a poor one. The hinge lines of the wings
seem to be parallel to the longitudinal axis, so no way to use the folded wings as counter weight
on the ground. The only way I could imagine in the moment would be pumping fuel from forward
to rearward tanks. Very inconvenient and not very probable !
One more "projetc" just drawn to collect investors money ?
 

steelpillow

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Jemiba said:
steelpillow said:
Just to be an idle pedant.
No, just precise, I think.
I have learned from bitter experience that there can be a fine line between the two. ;)

One more "projetc" just drawn to collect investors money ?
I suppose that depends on what they admit to prospective investors.
 

Jemiba

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Maybe interesting is, what the GF 7 is promised to achieve:
"The GF7 can increase the size of the region a person can influence in a day without the dependence on a team of support personnel," Brown told Gizmag. "It saves time by flying fast and eliminating delays resulting from startup, shutdown, transferring to a ground vehicle and backtracking to a waiting airplane. With a GF7 there is no need for travel coordinators, or a staff of pilots and drivers at the ready. You don’t need to pay for airport services, a rental car, or aircraft tie-downs, which also means you can avoid busy airports."

Perhaps quite far-fetched, I think. The GF 7 owner would have to pay for using an airport anyway and if to
go without a rental car will offset the aimed price of around 3 to 5 million $ may be doubtful.
Who is expected to pay for the development, I couldn't find out still yet.

An interesting picture, that shows the positions of tank and engine more clearly can be found
on http://thetechjournal.com/?attachment_id=176715
 

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Stargazer2006

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Recently came across what may very well be the earliest ever project for a roadable aircraft (1911):
 

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Motocar

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Recently locate this project amphibious flying car designed by a test pilot, named "Amazing Automobile Flying Boat" a novelty in itself to be designed for three media, air, water and land. was little or no information that achieves get over it, here I leave the image taken from the cover of a copy of an old magazine Mechanix Illustrated in an edition unidentified 1956

P.D. I wonder if some friend has more information on this project or even better magazine to identify
 

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This seems to be the Aeromarine flying car of 1955, designed by J.F. "Skeets" Coleman, a test pilot of the Navy's vertical takeoff Pogo fighter.
See post #99 of this same topic.
 

Stargazer2006

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Retrofit said:
This seems to be the Aeromarine flying car of 1955, designed by J.F. "Skeets" Coleman, a test pilot of the Navy's vertical takeoff Pogo fighter.
Definitely IS Coleman's Triphibian Aeromarine project.

Retrofit said:
See post #99 of this same topic.
If you right-click on any post's title you can copy-paste its link and it will lead to the post in question.
It's much better than browsing page after page of such a long thread... ;)
 

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Thanks friends for fast answer....!

Motocar
 

steelpillow

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Awesome idea.
Can't help thinking the propeller is a bit exposed to spray, it would need to be mounted above and slightly forward of the trailing wing section.

How about using it as a sailboat?
 
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