Flying Cars And Roadable Aircraft

[Grey Havoc]

Still the ultimate flying car, IMHO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywd0yNXmHaA

 

[dan_inbox]

... in order to justify the maintenance of the status quo.

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying. I'm not supporting tighter laws or hoping that flying cars never happen. I'm just pointing out that the market is probably not as big as people think, the limiting factors being the intellectual abilities of the populace.

 

[Orionblamblam]

... in order to justify the maintenance of the status quo.

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying. I'm not supporting tighter laws or hoping that flying cars never happen. I'm just pointing out that the market is probably not as big as people think, the limiting factors being the intellectual abilities of the populace.

Flying an aircraft is not *that* hard. And especially when you consider that these sort of "personal VTOLs" are going to pretty much *have* to be computer controlled, you can probably put a mediocre mind behind the stick of a properly designed one of these and it'll fly just fine. Designs like Moller's and this new multi-fan-thingie are so minimally stable that computers will *have* to fly them. And thus operating one will be pretty much hopping in, turning it on and telling it where to go, and it'll go there with minimal further input. Most likely, the standard version would be designed to *preclude* much pilot input.

Flight will go from stick-and-rudder to Ipad app, I imagine. It'll be like the scene in "I, Robot" where Will smith's character is berated for actually manually driving his car.

 

[Michel Van]

seems General Motor work also on flying car in 1945: the Escacar
a "Unicycle Gyroscopic Rocket Car."
artwork by Carl H. Renner

Source
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmalon/8395719765/

 

[Jemiba]

Flight will go from stick-and-rudder to Ipad app, I imagine. ...

I agree, but this development will apply to "just cars", to, I think. Automatic moving in queues on the
highways wll allow for much shorter distances between individual cars and overtaking without risk, even
if the road is full. But that's, too, a development, that would have to be established by the governments.
An owner of a 450 hp Porsche will hardly be glad to accept, that he is chauffeured by an electronic gadget !

 

[SteveO]

Who needs flying cars when the flying bicycle is coming along nicely. Looks like they need to work on the fold though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syJq10EQkog

(OK, it's really the Atlas Human-Powered Helicopter - AHS Sikorsky Prize Flight)

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.dvice.com/2013-11-21/weird-flying-car-spied-mountain-view​

 

[Jemiba]

Looks like a proof-of-concept demonstrator of the one we had here :
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3556.msg204060.html#msg204060

Remembering the problems I once had wit our TÜV (technical control board) because I had installed
rear view mirrors from another car, that were found to be too wide and so a hazard to pedestrians, it
probably would be a great show to watch the acceptance procedure for that one, fitted with ten
choppers. It' surely would be worth a lot of entrance fee ! ;D

 

[Stargazer]

Cool find!
Can't wait to see more of this one!

 

[shedofdread]

Sadly, for all sorts of reasons, we're unlikely to EVER see anything like that on public roads. Certainly in the UK and because regs appear similar, everywhere else. Leave aside issues of letting 'Joe Public' go hovering around town without informing ATC ...or even having a PPL, it's the little stuff that'll kill the concept - forward facing radii, gap sizes between components etc. ALL newly registered road vehicles (even one-offs) have to comform to this stuff.

All a bit of a shame really as I know someone who worked on the Handley-Page flying jeep project. Hmmmm... Old Merc Sprinter, couple of Speys and an 'Ardu-pilot'? What could *possibly* go wrong..?

 

[Stargazer]

Sadly, for all sorts of reasons, we're unlikely to EVER see anything like that on public roads. Certainly in the UK and because regs appear similar, everywhere else.

Can you imagine the headlines the day when the first drunk flying driver kills people in a crash? Real pilots know better, but if these flying cars are readily accessible to the general public, why would the behaviors (drunk-driving, insulting, cutting people up and bullying) be any different from those of regular drivers?

On the aspect of regulations, here is what an aircraft engineer (who worked on one of a flying car project that never took up) wrote to me recently:

It was a stupid idea. Considering flying cars, I pose the question "where are you going to take-off and land?" The FAA won't let you take off from a road, so you'll have to go to an airport. Then, why not just buy a regular airplane?

 

[shedofdread]

Exactly! The only remotely possible way such a thing would ever come to pass is if the system was entirely autonomous AND networked. However, in reality, the flying car is a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist.

None of this stops me wanting one, though...

 

[Jemiba]

A way I can imagine, that could "rescue" the flyin car is a "flying taxi service". A taxi is a car, a
flying taxi is a flying car ...
You order one via handy app or something like this, it fetches you directly where you are and brings
you to your destination without having to use congested. Autonomously, or maybe remotely guided,
you're sitting in a cabin without any means of interfering, so no way to deliberately crashing into your
neighbours house, no driver, so no possibility for hi-jacking. Owned by a large copany/organisation
(Google ?? ) the costs for liscensing could be procured and you could go to a destination, say
300 km away, in a time you could do just 100 km by car.
I know, it's not, what you wanted, but I agree, that we'll never see private flying cars in considerable
numbers, if at all.

 

[F-14D]

A way I can imagine, that could "rescue" the flyin car is a "flying taxi service". A taxi is a car, a
flying taxi is a flying car ...
You order one via handy app or something like this, it fetches you directly where you are and brings
you to your destination without having to use congested. Autonomously, or maybe remotely guided,
you're sitting in a cabin without any means of interfering, so no way to deliberately crashing into your
neighbours house, no driver, so no possibility for hi-jacking. Owned by a large copany/organisation
(Google ?? ) the costs for liscensing could be procured and you could go to a destination, say
300 km away, in a time you could do just 100 km by car.
I know, it's not, what you wanted, but I agree, that we'll never see private flying cars in considerable
numbers, if at all.

The problem the arises, would a big company think it could make money on flying taxis that would cost at least $1/2 million each, not to mention the infrastructure costs. As far as using an app to call one, that'd be the way to go. However, here in the US the established bureaucracies and taxi driver and dispatcher unions are blocking ground based services like Uber, Sidecar and Zinride/Lyft (heck they're even trying to kill ride sharing), so they'd really be working overtime to stop this.

And then they're the environmentalists.

I think your idea is the way to go. Once such a thing would be in operation it would be fantastic! But somehow we've go to get there from here

 

[Orionblamblam]

Can you imagine the headlines the day when the first drunk flying driver kills people in a crash? Real pilots know better, but if these flying cars are readily accessible to the general public, why would the behaviors (drunk-driving, insulting, cutting people up and bullying) be any different from those of regular drivers?

Clearly the thing to do is take drivers licenses away from anyone who does not also have a pilots license. Can't get both... get neither.

 

[Stargazer]

I personally see the future of the so-called "flying car" mostly in firefighting or rescue operations, as was suggested during the development of the Urban Aeronautics X-Hawk (a project later taken over by Bell XworX).

 

[Jemiba]

I personally see the future of the so-called "flying car" mostly in firefighting or rescue operations, ...

That market may not be big enough, I think, but that's definitely the kind of vehicle, that could earn
the title "flying car". And looking at it, we have already abandoned the ability to drive on the road.
Are we still talking about what's thais threads theme is ?

 

[borovik]

Chaika -"The Seagull" (1960-1962)
GAZ Gorky Automobile Plant, with the participation of TsAGI.
_______________________________________________
And a couple of flying platforms developed under the leadership of I.Bratuhin in 1958, is a four screw jeep off mass of 1200kg and heavy flying platform with a mass of 40 tons of cargo, (the latter however is this topic very conventional ratio)) (magazine Vertolet #2-06)

 

[Jemiba]

Are the first three photos actually showing a kind "jumping jeep", or is it a
kind of hovercraft ? I can see just two ducts and to achieve lateral control out of
ground effect may be difficult, I think.

 

[borovik]

Car "Chaika" (-7.5 m hull length and width of -3.7 m)
Able to move along the road on the wheels at a speed of -170 km / h,
fly over land, water, hovercraft at the height of 15cm. at speeds -40 km / h
Airbag is created by two axial fans. Thrust for horizontal movement created nozzles operating from fans. On the model of the nozzle not shown.
Model on exhibition in the Aviation Museum. N.E. Zhukovsky

 

[Jemiba]

Not really a "flying car" in our sense, nevertheless an interesting project. As a hovercraft, it
could replace an amphibium, and would have been able to cross (calm !) waters. Ashore it
would hardly have needed its hover capability, I think, as with a hovering height of 15 cm it could
hardly fly over obstacles and on wheels it was four times faster. Looks like a civil design to me
but the real raison d'être isn' quite clear to me.

 

[shedofdread]

The flying load platform (brat2.jpg) intrigues me - do you have more information about it that you could share? If so, that would be most appreciated OK, such platforms lack the efficiency of a traditional helicopter but they are interesting...

Many thanks for posting such interesting pictures

 

[borovik]

The flying load platform (brat2.jpg) intrigues me - do you have more information about it that you could share?

Alas. No additional information.

 

[Jemiba]

.... Leave aside issues of letting 'Joe Public' go hovering around town without informing ATC ...

... and unfortunately, the possibility of a crash into a bulding isn't that remote, as we often
expect it to be : http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/29/world/europe/scotland-helicopter-crash/

 

[Grey Havoc]

Roads? Where we’re going we don’t need roads


Flying cars have been on our wish list as a future form of transport for decades. From the hovering Delorean in Back to the Future 2 to the rattling wrecks in Blade Runner and the Fifth Element – flying cars are just cool.

And let us be honest, who hasn’t sat stationary in a traffic jam on the motorway and wished they could come over all Jetsons and just glide away above it all?

Now, it seems, the Chinese might be about to give the world what it has been hoping for.

A patent lodged by engineers at the Southern China Aviation Industry Group reveals designs for exactly that technology.

Their approach uses two large “lifting” fans positioned at the back and front of the vehicle, with each rotating in opposite directions.

Two smaller fans sit side by side in the middle of the car (labelled 5 and 6 in the diagram above) to help control the car and keep it stable.

Plates that sit under the two main fans can be adjusted to help provide directional thrust when flying.

What is less clear from the patent is exactly how much space is left for passengers, but it appears to be an early design.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/10480166/Could-flying-cars-soon-be-a-reality.html

 

[Jemiba]

"What is less clear from the patent is exactly how much space is left for passengers, but it appears to be an early design"

That was my thought, too, Chrysler and other companies built such a thing long ago , but without occupying the passengers
seats for lift fans. Such a design still seems to me as the most plausible for a "flying car", as it is compact, has full VTOL capability
and could be designed in a way, that doesn't endanger passers-by to be decapitated by whirling rotors. Nevertheless, maybe
it can be used by the police, fire brigade or other ecurity forces, but for private people just see a future in countries, where
public complaints about noise and damages due to down draught aren't taken seriously, or better, where the population is well-
educated and would never bother high-ranking officials with such peanuts.

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/10488514/AeroMobil-flying-car-ready-for-take-off.html

 

[Jemiba]

"When Stefan Klein gets stuck in a traffic jam on the drive to work it doesn’t stop him smiling."

Sorry for being devil's advocate again, but I would like to see him taking off from something
like shown below. Maybe he'll be laughing on the other side of his face then, when the airfield,
he still needs, is just less than a mile away, but he cannot get there !

 

[shedofdread]

OK, not quite a 'flying car' but used in a similar way, here's the latest project that'll get no where due to regulations etc etc

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uav-air-taxi-concept-reveals-clear-thinking-about-vtol-efficiency-393783/?cmpid=NLC|FGFG|FGUAV-2013-1209-GLOB|news&sfid=70120000000taAj

"An Austrian unmanned air systems entrepreneur with a novel take on the problem of combining vertical lift with fast horizontal flight has unveiled a fully automated air taxi concept that promises fly-anywhere capability and 6-10h endurance from a heavy fuel engine.
According to Johannes Reiter – an agricultural and later aerospace engineer who founded aerospace firm Aerie in 2011 – the JETI manned concept (pictured) could be suitable for home-to-office travel.
Whether a vehicle with no pilot, no elbow room and a lying down riding position with a direct view of the ground below would actually find favour with passengers or regulators remains to be seen, although Reiter says there are “discussions” of the idea".

It's certainly interesting from an engineering point of view and whilst I can see how a similarly configured UAS may find favour, as an autonomous, man-carrying system..? Hmmmmm... Maybe not

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Pometablava,

and here is the myCopter Flying Car;

http://www.dailybits.com/mycopter-another-step-towards-the-age-of-flying-cars/

That Gary Chorostecki flying car design,looks like myCopter .


http://www.francetvinfo.fr/sciences/ces-avions-du-futur-que-vous-ne-verrez-pas-au-salon-du-bourget_347414.html

 

[Jemiba]

Although just a single seater, to me the myCopter seems to be a more logical solution. A single
vehicle, without a strap-on flying unit and, as the site mentions, in the flight regime autonomous
with the driver just as a "passenger".

 

[Stargazer]

The Swiss knife syndrome. It can neither be a very good file, nor a very good pair of scissor, nor a very good screwdriver... A bit of everything but not very good at anything... A jack-of-all-trades and a master of none... That's what the flying car concept is all about, really. I used to be very enthusiastic about it but I have grown quite critical of it... It is a branch of aviation history that didn't bear fruit, it's kind of pointless to try so hard. Neandertals were an evolutionary dead end and they died out. So be it with the flying car!

 

[Jemiba]

Principally I agree, if a personal VTOL aircraft would be waiting at your door and you could land, say, on the
shopping mall or the cinema, instead of parking before it (it that's possible at all), what the capability to drive
is actually good for ?

 

[Stargazer]

Principally I agree, if a personal VTOL aircraft would be waiting at your door and you could land, say, on the
shopping mall or the cinema, instead of parking before it (it that's possible at all), what the capability to drive
is actually good for ?

Agreed. What killed the concept is the fact that individual flying is not made easy for the individual in our society. The future that our parents/grandparents envisioned, with landing platforms on the rooftops, personal landing areas in our gardens and VTOL capability in ambulances, police cars and so forth didn't materialize. And it's not the way we are headed I'm afraid. And so, without that range of possibilities, a private flying car is rendered pretty useless. Hence my previous remark that if any future could be seen for that type of vehicle, it would have to be for something "official" like police or hospitals, not individuals.

 

[hesham]

Principally I agree, if a personal VTOL aircraft would be waiting at your door and you could land, say, on the
shopping mall or the cinema, instead of parking before it (it that's possible at all), what the capability to drive
is actually good for ?

That's right my dear Jens,because in cities or towns no parking for it ;D .

 

[Kartek]

People today are not responsible enough to let loose upon our airspace. People can't even park without embarrassing the human race. If a flying car becomes available I want a drivable aircraft so I can stay out of thier way.

 

[Stargazer]

People today are not responsible enough to let loose upon our airspace. People can't even park without embarrassing the human race.

That is just so true.

If a flying car becomes available I want a drivable aircraft so I can stay out of thier way.

Brilliant concept! Remember however that as a driving pilot you're not immune from irresponsible flying drivers crashing and falling down from mid-air straight over you!!!

 

[Jemiba]

The only way to make the concept of a "flying car" feasible, to my opinion is: No
controls for the driver at all ! Perhaps you can use something like a car sharing system,
book your vehicle, get it at the next suitable point (why not heli pads on buildings ?),
and leaves it at the nearest possible point to your destination. You are just a passenger
then, with less possibilities to interfere, than in a bus, where at least the driver could be
threatened. The control system capsuled and armoured, all attempts to manipulate it
would immediately result in a landing at the next police station with the vehicle locked !
Ah, and let's not forget integrated detectors for explosives to prevent suicide attacks !

 

[Stargazer]

The only way to make the concept of a "flying car" feasible, to my opinion is: No
controls for the driver at all ! Perhaps you can use something like a car sharing system,
book your vehicle, get it at the next suitable point (why not heli pads on buildings ?),
and leaves it at the nearest possible point to your destination. You are just a passenger
then, with less possibilities to interfere, than in a bus, where at least the driver could be
threatened. The control system capsuled and armoured, all attempts to manipulate it
would immediately result in a landing at the next police station with the vehicle locked !
Ah, and let's not forget integrated detectors for explosives to prevent suicide attacks !

You are proving my point and Kartek's point here. The world is not ready for private flying cars!

In Paris (and now quite a few cities around) we've had specially designed bicycles for about 10 years. They're called Velib' — a combination of "vélo" (bike) and liberty. You need to pay an annual fee that gives you a special card, and then you can pick a bike from any of the numerous stations and leave it at any other. Now despite the practicality, ease-of-use and all-round excellent quality of the service, over 1500 such bikes get stolen every year! They have a unique design that makes then recognizable, for sure... but once it's stolen, the robber can ride around town with it and no-one will be able to tell if he didn't just pay to borrow it! Besides several of these bikes have reappeared in third world countries... We've also got the cars now. Autolib'... All electric. Special stations all over the city and a few cities around. A lot more difficult to steal I guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens too. Imagine they ever do an Aviolib' service on day... I'm sure some people would steal them and fly off! At the time when the flying car was imagined, people were a lot more civic-minded and respectful of the law. But nowadays? I don't think it would work.

 

[Jemiba]

Such bikes we have here, too, owned by the Deutsche Bahn (German Railway) and, yes, with a card you
ca open the lock. But on a bicycle it's probably hard to install a non-cheatable, or non-removable system.
In a car it may be better, but still yet, the one who fetches the car, can go, where he wants to. For an "Aviolib"
that's not acceptable. when ordering you have to tell the starting point and the destination and then you're
seated in a kind of comfortable rubber room. A change of the destination would be only possible via communication
with the head office, not via direct input into the flight control system. This needs enough autonomy to and at
a suitable point in the case of a broken down data link or other failure.
And still then, of course, there would be the risk of a hacker getting control, but if it is a mature system, that possibilty
should be much lowere, than that of a rowdy or drunken dickhead.