Firearms secret projects

codyson

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Also, variant of AEK-918:
View attachment 642256
I need to know where you find these images as ive never seen that image of that variant of the AEK918r
ive seen only the following

I think they're slight variants of the same AEK-918G prototype I posted further up. And you'll be having trouble with "AEK-918r", as that's not an R but a Cyrillic G (Г).

to be honest i did initially write it down as AEK-918G but rewrote it as R for some odd reason as i do know somewhat about the Cryllic alphabet
 

codyson

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the reason i have become so interested in these experimental Soviet Unicorn Guns is that i intend on building some of them as P.O.Cs when i finally open up shop i mean i am sure any patents pertaining to them except maybe the AEK971/972/973 are expired.. id create them for study purposes and to test their abilities once ive completed my S.O.T. licensing processes..
 

codyson

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Does anyone know if the Soviets or the Russians ever produced a 5.45 contemporary to the 7.62x54r or .308???
 

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Does anyone know if the Soviets or the Russians ever produced a 5.45 contemporary to the 7.62x54r or .308???
You mean, "Was there a 5.45mm cartridge in 1891 or 1952?" The earliest Russian small-bore cartridge known to me is the 1890 Privalov 6mm cartridge (.42 Berdan parent case). Between 1891 and 1899, Russian generals discussed the prospects for 5.6 mm and 6.5 mm rifle cartridges. In addition, for Tsarevich Alexei, a copy of the M1891, reduced by 1/3, was made for a 5.08 mm cartridge (7.62 mm Nagant parent case). According to my calculations, the energy of this cartridge should be about 800-1100 Joules. It is believed that the 5.45x39 (or a very similar cartridge) was developed between 1939 and 1941, and only the war prevented its implementation. In general, for Russians, "remembering" old projects was the norm. For example, I heard that the 14.5x114 was developed in the WW1 period, because of the revolution they forgot about the cartridge, and "remembered" in 1938.
 

Stenda G

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Does anyone know if the Soviets or the Russians ever produced a 5.45 contemporary to the 7.62x54r or .308???

Use Google translate

5,6x38R and 6,5x38R Blume cartriges with 7,62x38R Nagant parent were presented in 1955.

Another 5,6x40R - 22 EXTRA in early 30s

Another unknown 5,6x45R.

It seems this one was developed for Shpitalny experimental MG.
 

codyson

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Does anyone know if the Soviets or the Russians ever produced a 5.45 contemporary to the 7.62x54r or .308???
You mean, "Was there a 5.45mm cartridge in 1891 or 1952?" The earliest Russian small-bore cartridge known to me is the 1890 Privalov 6mm cartridge (.42 Berdan parent case). Between 1891 and 1899, Russian generals discussed the prospects for 5.6 mm and 6.5 mm rifle cartridges. In addition, for Tsarevich Alexei, a copy of the M1891, reduced by 1/3, was made for a 5.08 mm cartridge (7.62 mm Nagant parent case). According to my calculations, the energy of this cartridge should be about 800-1100 Joules. It is believed that the 5.45x39 (or a very similar cartridge) was developed between 1939 and 1941, and only the war prevented its implementation. In general, for Russians, "remembering" old projects was the norm. For example, I heard that the 14.5x114 was developed in the WW1 period, because of the revolution they forgot about the cartridge, and "remembered" in 1938.
i am sorry i structured my question wrong

what i was trying to ask was
" Was there any Russian or Soviet attempt to create a 5.45 cartridge along the lines of the 7.62x54R?"
to which i meant a cartridge such as 5.45x54R, 5.6x54R, 5.45x54, 5.6x55....etc.

i think that the soviets who had captured more of the details about German metallurgy and barrel making would've been more likely to have made a cartridge such as maybe 5.45x54R work.

i myself and in the process of having a few Barrels made for wildcats i am making which are 5.45 or 5.6 mm bullets in 7.62x54R or .308 Cases both necked down and fitted with four piece sabots ( i am also doing the same with 7.62x39 and as an added "what would" experiment i am putting the 7.62 projectiles in cases for 5.45
 

codyson

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it would be like christmas, birthdays all bundled together multiplied by 1000 if and when the archives are opened in regards to Soviet cold war era weapons and experiments
 

Cutaway

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Spasov M1944 Trigun:
3mkJdywl.jpg


dElI3qHl.jpg


TdVOjCNl.jpg


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5bkLWjMQzw
 
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Bottleship

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Small known Soviet weapons (from guns.ru):
Pre-WW2:
- MEO-60 (Rus. МЭО-60), "Electrosila" plant, 1930s
- 35 mm light electric anti-aircraft gun, 1935
- ShVAK-25 project (maybe, 25 mm variant of ShVAK autocannon)
Cold war period:
Autocannons
in 23x115 - TKB-495, TKB-505, TKB-532, TKB-577
in 23x152 - TKB-494
in 30x165 - TKB-644, TKB-686
in 37 mm caliber - Silin TKB-504, Volkov, Yartsev and Afanasyev TKB-508, Slostin KB-P-775
TKB-499 - autocannon in experimental cartridge, created by TsKB-14
TKB-776 - 57 mm autocannon, muzzle velocity 500 mps, 900 rpm (!)
TKB-700 - 45 mm automatic rocket cannon
Also, 23 mm 210-P, 30 mm TKB-529, TKB-539, TKB-540, 57 mm 113-P and 500-P
Yartsev TKB-0105 - maybe, in 23x115
KBK-33 - experimental autocannon with caseless telescoped ammunition
KBK-80 - 45 mm autocannon
KBK-145 - autocannon with rocket-assisted projectile
KBK-162 - Bogdanov multiple barrel 14.5 mm compact machine gun (quadriple barrel?)
KBK-164 - Bogdanov 14.5 mm machine gun to replace of Vladimirov KPV
KBK-165 and KBK-166 - experimental multiple barrel assault rifles
KBK-167 - 12.7 mm machine gun to replace of Nikitin-Sokolov-Volkov NSV-12.7
 

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900rpm 57mm autocannon?
Yes :)
Maybe, it's a double-barrel Gast gun.
Tested 57 mm double-barrel AO-16 gun for self-propelled AA gun, also, engineers Gryazev and Shipunov projected 57 mm with 2000 rpm naval anti-missile gun, it was a quadriple barrel Gatling gun or two double-barrel Gast guns in one turret.
Also, maybe, it was a rocket gun. In other Soviet gun, TKB-700, 45 mm with 1250 rpm, use a rockets (HEAT with 200 mm armour penetration):
18703996.jpg
18704095.jpg
 

Bottleship

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When you want something really dead in a hurry...
The Russians just loved everything big and fast-firing.
Americans: We projected a automatic loading system for our tanks, but, in our 60-ton 120 mm Abrams we use a hand-operational reloading
Russians: We use a automatic loading system in our 45-ton 125 mm tanks... We didn't have the money to use the 130 mm full-auto gun with caseless cartridges and 152 mm full-auto rocket gun... And even earlier, we didn't have enough money for a 55-ton 140 mm tank...
Americans: We projected the great 16"/50 24-gun battleship, rate of fire of ship - 48 rpm, 45.9 tons of projectiles per minute to 41 km, 63 500 ton monster...
Russians: We projected 16"/45 12-gun battleship, rate of fire of ship - 48 rpm (or more), 53.6 tons (or more) of projectiles per minute to 45 km (or more), 35 600 ton monster... And, also, We projected 16"/50, 16"/52, 16"/54 and 18"/45 guns...
Americans: We built a 30 000 rpm .60 cal electric Gatling gun...
Russians: We built a 16 000 rpm 30 mm jet Gatling gun...
Americans: We built the Desert Eagle... .357, .44 and .50 cal semi-auto pistol... The most powerful ever...
Russians: We built 7.62x54R pistol, but, We lost it... And, we didn't have the money to built the 25 mm full-auto pistol, .357 and .44 full-auto pistols, 9x33 and .60 cal semi-auto pistols... But, we built a 5.45x39 assault rifle in Desert Eagle size...
It seems to me that this is a national trait. Coming up with something super-gigantic, or just gigantic, but very fast. Guns, planes, cars, ships and so on.
 

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Russian 1890s experimental 7.62 mm S&W revolver. I heard about Rachkov revolver, based on S&W No.3 in 7.62x38R Nagant. Barrel lenght 108 mm, overall lenght 248 mm.
3863512.jpg
Also, experimental air gun:
XVIII century revolving guns:
XVIII century six-barrel gun:
 

Get_Em_Puppy

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I found second image with Frolov 1912-1914 SMG:
View attachment 642257
It doesn't look like a rough first sample anymore. More like a pre-production sample.
+ Also, information about other Russian SMG. Engineer V. A. Degtyarev in 1913 create unknown SMG, who planned to serial production in 1918, for assault groups, but, after 1917 revolution, all documents and blueprints, with Finnish engineers, left for Finland, and, Aimo Lahti used this for his SMGs. This information cannot be confirmed or denied. We know what the Degtyarev 1929 SMG looked like, and we know what the 1922 Lahti SMG looked like, but we do not know what the 1921 Lahti SMG looked like, and what the 1913 Degtyarev SMG looked like (if it existed). But, I don't think it was completely impossible. Frolov started working in 1912 or earlier, in Austria-Hungary Hellriegel started working in 1908.

Are you sure the Frolov was a submachine gun? The only information I've been able to find is that it trialed alongside several self-loading rifles, which would imply it was semi-automatic only. I've never seen anything about it having a full-auto function - it seems to be more akin to the early Dreyse and de Falletans self-loading carbines that were developed around the same time.

Also, source on the Hellriegel beginning development in 1908?

The only WW1-era SMGs I know of were as follows:

Italy:
  • Revelli/Villar Perosa (1915)
  • FIAT (1916)
  • Revelli O.V.P. (1917)
  • Cei-Rigotti (1917)
  • Ansaldo Crocetti (1918)
  • Savoia (1918)
  • A.N. (1918)
  • MIDA (1918)
*Some experimental versions of the Revelli-Beretta Mod.1918 were made in selective-fire, but most were semi-automatic

Austria-Hungary:
  • Hellriegel (1915)
  • Steyr M.12/P16 (1916)
  • Frommer M.17 (1917)
  • Sturmpistole (1917)
  • Steyr (1918???)
Germany:
  • Schwarzlose (1916?)
  • Bergmann M.P.18,I (1917)
  • Hoffman (1918)
  • Walther (1918)
  • Dreyse/Rheinmetall (1918)
  • Simson (1918???)
Russia:
  • From (1917)
United States:
  • Thompson Persuader (1917)
  • Thompson Annihilator (1918)
  • Andrews (1918)
 
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Bottleship

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Are you sure the Frolov was a submachine gun? The only information I've been able to find is that it trialed alongside several self-loading rifles, which would imply it was semi-automatic only. I've never seen anything about it having a full-auto function - it seems to be more akin to the early Dreyse and de Falletans self-loading carbines that were developed around the same time.

About Frolov carbine, V. E. Markevich, "Hand firearms":
"for this to become a full-fledged sub-machine gun, need to remove the bolt rotation and shorten the barrel." (Markevich's phrase about the need to remove the bolt rotation is controversial. Judging by the proportions, the automation in the Frolov carbine is very compact.)
Images of Frolov carbine from goskatalog.ru:
No.1
No.2
Overall lenght - 98 cm, barrel lenght by proportions - ~450 cm. You can see, first - looks like a experimental model, second - looks like a production or pre-production model. Frolov most likely knew about the experiments of 1908 ("All pistols and revolvers ..."). Then they tried to remake the Luger pistol and Mauser C06 pistol to full-auto. On tests, the weapon showed a very high recoil and low reliability, the ammunition was fired almost instantly, it was difficult to hold such a pistol in your hand, and it was also difficult to hit the target. These experiments were initiated by the military, there is no information about their continuation. But the Russians seem to be interested in the idea of SMG. The Frolov SMG looks like an attempt to eliminate the shortcomings of the full-auto Luger and full-auto Mauser pistols. Here 20-rd magazine (versus 8-rd), there is a slowdown in the rate of fire. Yes, I do not think that Frolov would use a slowdown for a self-loading gun without full-auto firing. But, according to Fedorov's materials ("Gunmaking on the verge of two eras", I), the military wanted to use 9-mm cartridges in pistols, and perhaps that is why the Frolov SMG did not get into the troops. But, in photo # 2, you can see that the weapon was made in good quality, it looks like a weapon for hunters or perhaps the police.
In Fedorov "Gunmaking..." mention of testing the Frolov rifle, with delayed blowback. This weapon fired special cartridges with a reduced charge (2000 atm pressure) and wooden bullets. That is, it was rather a test sample to test something. Fedorov writes that "the rate of fire of the Frolov rifle depends on the amount of lubricant." That is, if the rifle is better oiled, then the shutter speed is higher. But, if this is just a self-loading rifle, then how can the shutter speed affect the rate of fire? In a self-loading rifle, the rate of fire is determined by the frequency of pressing the trigger. What is the difference for the finger on the trigger, does the automation cycle take 0.05 seconds, 0.1 seconds, 0.2 seconds? This only affects if full-auto firing is present. That is, apparently, the Frolov rifle was also fully automatic.
Information about other Russian SMGs:
General N. I. Yurlov in 1915 suggest the "Small machine gun "Jakob"" (yes, it's a weird name for Russian weapon), based on construction of Nagant M1895 revolver, with belt. (book: "All pistols and revolvers of USSR and Russia", S. Fedoseev)
Workman ("masterovoy") of Kuban cossack army M. K. Molokov suggest in 31 Jule 1915 full-auto pistol or small SMG, "Hand machine gun "Kubanets"" layout like a Mauser C96, 33-round magazine, 7.62x38R Nagant. (book: "Machine guns of Russian army in battle", S. Fedoseev)
 

Get_Em_Puppy

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Are you sure the Frolov was a submachine gun? The only information I've been able to find is that it trialed alongside several self-loading rifles, which would imply it was semi-automatic only. I've never seen anything about it having a full-auto function - it seems to be more akin to the early Dreyse and de Falletans self-loading carbines that were developed around the same time.

About Frolov carbine, V. E. Markevich, "Hand firearms":
"for this to become a full-fledged sub-machine gun, need to remove the bolt rotation and shorten the barrel." (Markevich's phrase about the need to remove the bolt rotation is controversial. Judging by the proportions, the automation in the Frolov carbine is very compact.)
Images of Frolov carbine from goskatalog.ru:
No.1
No.2
Overall lenght - 98 cm, barrel lenght by proportions - ~450 cm. You can see, first - looks like a experimental model, second - looks like a production or pre-production model. Frolov most likely knew about the experiments of 1908 ("All pistols and revolvers ..."). Then they tried to remake the Luger pistol and Mauser C06 pistol to full-auto. On tests, the weapon showed a very high recoil and low reliability, the ammunition was fired almost instantly, it was difficult to hold such a pistol in your hand, and it was also difficult to hit the target. These experiments were initiated by the military, there is no information about their continuation. But the Russians seem to be interested in the idea of SMG. The Frolov SMG looks like an attempt to eliminate the shortcomings of the full-auto Luger and full-auto Mauser pistols. Here 20-rd magazine (versus 8-rd), there is a slowdown in the rate of fire. Yes, I do not think that Frolov would use a slowdown for a self-loading gun without full-auto firing. But, according to Fedorov's materials ("Gunmaking on the verge of two eras", I), the military wanted to use 9-mm cartridges in pistols, and perhaps that is why the Frolov SMG did not get into the troops. But, in photo # 2, you can see that the weapon was made in good quality, it looks like a weapon for hunters or perhaps the police.
In Fedorov "Gunmaking..." mention of testing the Frolov rifle, with delayed blowback. This weapon fired special cartridges with a reduced charge (2000 atm pressure) and wooden bullets. That is, it was rather a test sample to test something. Fedorov writes that "the rate of fire of the Frolov rifle depends on the amount of lubricant." That is, if the rifle is better oiled, then the shutter speed is higher. But, if this is just a self-loading rifle, then how can the shutter speed affect the rate of fire? In a self-loading rifle, the rate of fire is determined by the frequency of pressing the trigger. What is the difference for the finger on the trigger, does the automation cycle take 0.05 seconds, 0.1 seconds, 0.2 seconds? This only affects if full-auto firing is present. That is, apparently, the Frolov rifle was also fully automatic.
Information about other Russian SMGs:
General N. I. Yurlov in 1915 suggest the "Small machine gun "Jakob"" (yes, it's a weird name for Russian weapon), based on construction of Nagant M1895 revolver, with belt. (book: "All pistols and revolvers of USSR and Russia", S. Fedoseev)
Workman ("masterovoy") of Kuban cossack army M. K. Molokov suggest in 31 Jule 1915 full-auto pistol or small SMG, "Hand machine gun "Kubanets"" layout like a Mauser C96, 33-round magazine, 7.62x38R Nagant. (book: "Machine guns of Russian army in battle", S. Fedoseev)
This is all basically speculation. Is there anything that actually confirms it was fully-automatic? If not, I feel it is dubious to call it an SMG.
It seems most sources refer to it as the "Frolov automatic carbine" - "automatic carbine" usually meaning self-loading i.e. semi-automatic.
Also, it seems implausible that a sporter version of the gun would be made if it were an SMG, whereas it would make sense for a self-loading carbine.
In fact the links you attached even say "Frolov self-loading carbine".

Using a delayed blowback action in a self-loading carbine is not unheard of. The Beretta 1918 used a friction delay action even though it fired in semi-auto only.

I would still be interested in any in-depth details of early SMGs.
 
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Bottleship

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"Frolov self-loading carbine"
This Fedorov rifle is attributed as "self-loading", although historian Ruslan Chumak points out that it had the full-auto capability:
7 (1).jpg
Another example. The Rudnitsky 1886-1887 rifle is referred to as "self-loading" or as "automatic". It makes sense that this is just a self-loading rifle. But there are also references to the presence of a full-auto mode and a bipod. And the "self-loading rifle" turns out to be a "light machine gun".
At this time, "knyaz" ("prince") Chegodaev developed a 19-barrel hunting machine gun. Later, in the 1940s, the Russians had a project for a .22 LR hunting submachine gun - the author considered that a burst of bullets was more effective than buckshot from a shotgun. In addition, I remind you that the first idea about a submachine gun in Russia was not later than 1908, in 1915 there was a project of a full-fledged submachine gun. I see no reason why the Russians could not have made a submachine gun in 1912.
...
John Walter, "The Hand Gun Story: A Complete Illustrated History" - information about Borchardt C/93 in full-auto variant, builted in 1896, "eight rounds in three-tenths of a second", it's a ~1600 rpm. That is, 12 years before the Russians' experiments, Borchardt tried to make a full-auto pistol.
 

Bottleship

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One of Maxim-Tokarev 1920s LMG:
28760980_14305.gif
"Standart" Maxim-Tokarev LMG:
unnamed (16).jpg
First LMG is very weird. Looks like a Russian variant of MG.08/18 or LMG.15. It is similar in description to the Maxim-Kabakov 1913 project, also with a pistol grip.
...
Weird Korovin 1922 pistol
224475.jpg
...
Also, from goskatalog.ru - Tokarev 1930 pistol photos (7.62x25, 22-rd magazine, only semi-auto firing):
362570.jpg
362572.jpg
 

Get_Em_Puppy

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"Frolov self-loading carbine"
This Fedorov rifle is attributed as "self-loading", although historian Ruslan Chumak points out that it had the full-auto capability:
View attachment 651357
Another example. The Rudnitsky 1886-1887 rifle is referred to as "self-loading" or as "automatic". It makes sense that this is just a self-loading rifle. But there are also references to the presence of a full-auto mode and a bipod. And the "self-loading rifle" turns out to be a "light machine gun".
At this time, "knyaz" ("prince") Chegodaev developed a 19-barrel hunting machine gun. Later, in the 1940s, the Russians had a project for a .22 LR hunting submachine gun - the author considered that a burst of bullets was more effective than buckshot from a shotgun. In addition, I remind you that the first idea about a submachine gun in Russia was not later than 1908, in 1915 there was a project of a full-fledged submachine gun. I see no reason why the Russians could not have made a submachine gun in 1912.
...
John Walter, "The Hand Gun Story: A Complete Illustrated History" - information about Borchardt C/93 in full-auto variant, builted in 1896, "eight rounds in three-tenths of a second", it's a ~1600 rpm. That is, 12 years before the Russians' experiments, Borchardt tried to make a full-auto pistol.
But you haven't presented any actual evidence that it was a submachine gun, and pretty much all the sources I've read call it a self-loading or automatic carbine. I have to assume it was semi-automatic unless any evidence of a full-auto capability is shown.

The Fedorov was first and foremost a self-loading rifle, but the fact that it had automatic fire capability is well-documented. In the case of the Frolov carbine, it isn't.

The question is not whether the Russians could have developed an SMG by 1912 - it's whether they actually did.

Also, I think you're misreading sources about the Hellriegel. I can't find any mention of the weapon by Friedrich Merkatz, however he did describe the development of the MG08/15 from 1908 - 1915. Are you sure you're not just mixing it up with that?
 

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Unknown Russian rifle, created by NPO "Pribor":
image001.gif
5fba74e710c5dcdf9b8e9e825c957078bb32fffc42e96b0e0257ac2a6b67e3e0.png
Cartridges - looks like a 23x152 (?)
I heard about other rifle, created by KBP, in 23 mm special cartridge...

Also, one of the Russian WW2 suggestions. 20 mm "hand cannon" with reduced pressure, recoil and muzzle velocity (not anti-tank gun):
minigun.jpg
"More Dakka!!!"
 
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Grey Havoc

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Also, one of the Russian WW2 suggestions. 20 mm "hand cannon" with reduced pressure, recoil and muzzle velocity (not anti-tank gun)
Countermeasure against the threat of Nazi supersoldier programs? Or just intended for use by combat engineers against field fortifications and the like?
 

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An old lesser-known Nazi project: the FMP-1 remote-controlled turret (Festung Maschinenpistole). This was an attempt by the Germans to create an electronically-fired submachine gun for fortification defence. It was considered that a 9mm submachine gun, due to its lesser accuracy, could create a wider field of fire than a conventional MG, thus making it ideal for suppressive blind-firing from a defensive position. The Czechs tried this concept (albeit not remotely-fired) with their Vz.38 submachine gun before the war.

The FMP-1 is, for all intents as purposes, a stripped-down M.P.28,II with an electronically-primed trigger mechanism. It has two hinged mounts allowing it to be fitted to a flat surface or a ceiling. It takes standard 20 or 32-round Schmeisser-pattern magazines, which limits its firepower somewhat - a larger magazines was possibly intended. The gun pictured is the only example I know of in existence, but it is serial number 07 implying that other examples were made. Allegedly they were used - or intended to be used - on German fortifications at the Siegfried Line.

FMP.png
FMP.png
 

JohnR

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Would it have been possible to develop a variant with a belt feed, which would seem to make a lot more sense?
 
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Get_Em_Puppy

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Would it have been possible to develop a variant with a belt feed, which would seem to make a lot more sense?
Hypothetically yes, although I suppose Schmeisser magazines were already in wide circulation and cheaper to use than converting the M.P.28,II into belt-feed. It would be more efficient to make a large-capacity drum magazine for the gun though.
 

zen

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Hang on....wasn't there a belt fed submachine gun prototype?
I think I saw it on Forgotten Weapons.....
 

Get_Em_Puppy

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Hang on....wasn't there a belt fed submachine gun prototype?
I think I saw it on Forgotten Weapons.....
Yes, another German gun, the Cönders SMG. It was found in an incomplete state by US troops and repaired at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds. However it was a one-off pet project of the designer (August Cönders) and I don't think there was ever any official consideration given to adopting it.

Coenders SMG.png
The Russians had a belt-feed SMG too, the LAD. Chambered in 7.62mm Tokarev with a fire rate of about 600rpm. However only two prototypes were ever made.

1605148614_lad1.jpg
LAD2.png
 

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Also, one of the Russian WW2 suggestions. 20 mm "hand cannon" with reduced pressure, recoil and muzzle velocity (not anti-tank gun)
Countermeasure against the threat of Nazi supersoldier programs? Or just intended for use by combat engineers against field fortifications and the like?
1921, Russia, inventions of E. E. Gorin:
6-1810.jpg
Number 42:
IMG_20210415_013929.jpg
"Project of electric steel man-automat"
About Russian 1910-1920s "superhuman" and "supersoldier" projects:
20 mm hand cannon... For terminators... Or... For space marines...
 

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The Russians had a belt-feed SMG too, the LAD. Chambered in 7.62mm Tokarev with a fire rate of about 600rpm. However only two prototypes were ever made.
From book "Киселев А.М. "Умельцы военной поры"", 1986, page 84 - "PPSh with MG-42 belt-fed mechanism, 300-round belt" :)
I think, PPSh with 900 rpm and 300-rd belt is more interesting than LAD with 600 rpm and 150-250-rd belt...
Other belt-fed SMG, TKB-340:
IMG_20210415_081013.jpg
 
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Get_Em_Puppy

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The Russians had a belt-feed SMG too, the LAD. Chambered in 7.62mm Tokarev with a fire rate of about 600rpm. However only two prototypes were ever made.
From book "Киселев А.М. "Умельцы военной поры"", 1986, page 84 - "PPSh with MG-42 belt-fed mechanism, 300-round belt" :)
I think, PPSh with 900 rpm and 300-rd belt is more interesting than LAD with 600 rpm and 150-250-rd belt...
Other belt-fed SMG, TKB-340:
View attachment 655079

Talking of weird feed systems, here's a chute-feed developed by Heinrich Vollmer for the M.P.18,I...

Vollmermag.png
MP18 Vollmer mag.png

Seems like the rotary drum at the end of the chute was supposed to be strapped onto the user's belt. Needless to say, this was never adopted.
 

Bottleship

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Russian XVII century experimental firearms:
- Rogatina ("bear spear"), combined with carbine barrel
- Musket inside spear
- Bardiche-gun
- Knife-gun
- Air gun
- Triple-barrel musket
- Double-barrel musket (one rifled and one smooth-bore barrels)
- Double-barrel pistols
- "Vybornije streltsy" (elite streltsy), three 300-man regiments, with spears, rifles and cannons
- Two airguns, 1641 and 1651
- Light field breeach-loading cannons, with cartridges in tinplate cases - 3/4 pound (307 g, 0.677 British lbs), 3 pounds (2.7 lbs), and buckshot cannon
- Leather cannons, 1-pound (0.9 lbs) ball, "reiter cannons", for shooting from horses (Russian "zamburak"?)
- Light portable mortar, for 5-pounder grenades, 40 kg barrel weight, 32 kg base weight, and other mortars, 4, 6, 10 pounder grenades ("10-pdr grenade" here is a grenade with 10 pounds of gunpowder inside)
- Wooden "ground" mortar
- Metal "ground" mortar, 2 cubit caliber (~0.9-1.5 m), lenght of barrel - 4 calibers (8 cubits, ~3.6-6 m), lenght of chamber - 2 calibers (~1.8-3 m).
- Project of huge collapsible mortar
 

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