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Elon Musk’s Neuralink

edwest

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Everything was very vague. No timetable was established for anything. As far as any sort of breakthrough, that was not explained. The Luke Arm is a prosthetic arm connected directly to the patient and it is in use now. Progress is being made with prosthetics but this, for lack of a better term, signal processing device has no present commercial applications. I watched a demonstration of a person who could not walk, walking with the aid of electrical contacts connected to the skin at key points.

"No present commercial applications". And yet Musk is spending money on it along with other private investors. Unless you think Musk is doing it for laughs or just likes attention, he has some financial return in mind.

The Luke arm can be driven by electromyographic signals rather than by reading/decoding brain synapses. This is a far more rudimentary level of control. The closest analog I have seen are people wearing hair nets studded with capacitors which produce a far coarser reading of EEG state. To get a full 3D, spatially resolved map of synapse activity, the microscopic wires used by Neuralink will be needed unless someone comes up with some ultra sensitive tomographic sensor that doesn't occupy a room and weigh a ton.

Doing it for laughs? Where did I write that? Listen to Musk say "this will blow your mind." It never happened during the presentation, unless pigs with implants excites you. Until human trials actually start, and the [hopefully] more complex human mind is engaged, there's nothing now.

The example I gave about a person walking by the use of electrodes attached to the skin was very straightforward. The electrodes fired to tense and relax muscles in the legs at specific times and in a specific order. This was a preprogrammed operation.

Spending money? Yes, of course. I'm looking for all of the promised developments getting completed. Eyesight for the blind was briefly touched on by one member of the technical team but it involved the building of a megapixel camera into a human eye, or a substitute. And so far as I know, something like that does not exist. It would seem the spinal break connector would be a relatively easy job for the device, but no idea when that connector might be built.

I know a little about investors and inventions. Even with lots of money, no one has set a date for Return On Investment. I'll watch this. But I'll only look more after "First human trial of severed spinal cord connector completed" appears. As one example.
 

fredymac

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Doing it for laughs? Where did I write that? Listen to Musk say "this will blow your mind." It never happened during the presentation, unless pigs with implants excites you. Until human trials actually start, and the [hopefully] more complex human mind is engaged, there's nothing now.

The example I gave about a person walking by the use of electrodes attached to the skin was very straightforward. The electrodes fired to tense and relax muscles in the legs at specific times and in a specific order. This was a preprogrammed operation.

Spending money? Yes, of course. I'm looking for all of the promised developments getting completed. Eyesight for the blind was briefly touched on by one member of the technical team but it involved the building of a megapixel camera into a human eye, or a substitute. And so far as I know, something like that does not exist. It would seem the spinal break connector would be a relatively easy job for the device, but no idea when that connector might be built.

I know a little about investors and inventions. Even with lots of money, no one has set a date for Return On Investment. I'll watch this. But I'll only look more after "First human trial of severed spinal cord connector completed" appears. As one example.

You see no commercial application. You see no date for return on investment. You say you know something about investors. So why won’t you say what you think they are doing by spending money on this (don’t tell me it involves aliens).

Once again, the fine control required to drive muscles can’t be achieved by simple EMG capacitive pickups. That’s why these prosthetics have hit a wall. Various groups are trying to solve this by “mapping the connectome” of synaptic behavior (the Allen Institute is one). This is the crux of what Neuralink is doing. The embedded chip and wires are simply the way to implement what they learn.
 

TomcatViP

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Yes data harvesting. And pinpoint carefully targeted public demonstrations.
IMOHO a lot of institutions will pay to get their hands on raw data like that and even more if they can articulate themselves the hardware part...

That should be enough for good money the time being.
 

fredymac

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Took me a bit to find this video on someone trying to figure out how neurons convert the image on your retina into electrical pulses which then get processed into images by your brain. You can brute force your way through this just by embedding an electrode array over the retina and stimulate the neurons which is how the "Argus" occular implant works.

I haven't seen any further progress from the neuron simulator but it is similar in technique to Neuralink.

 

edwest

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Yes data harvesting. And pinpoint carefully targeted public demonstrations.
IMOHO a lot of institutions will pay to get their hands on raw data like that and even more if they can articulate themselves the hardware part...

That should be enough for good money the time being.

Neuralink is not the only way to get brain function data. There have been cases where brain damage has occurred and where the brain did its own rewiring. Bionic eyes and bionic ears are still a ways off. I am glad this technology exists but the promise lays far into the future. I know someone with genetic hearing loss. No amount of brain-machine interface will solve that problem unless the damaged portion of the ears can be replaced with a synthetic version. Perhaps nanoengineering will solve this problem, perhaps not.
 

fredymac

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If you know where in the brain audio signals are processed and you know how synapses respond to audio inputs from the ear, then a microphone input to a Neuralink chip could stimulate the appropriate synapse behavior in the brain. Only if the brain itself was dysfunctional in the audio processing area would you be unable to do anything unless you could distinguish the process of hearing sounds from the interpretation of it and figure out how to shift the inputs "upstream" in the levels of consciousness.
 

TomcatViP

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Yes data harvesting. And pinpoint carefully targeted public demonstrations.
IMOHO a lot of institutions will pay to get their hands on raw data like that and even more if they can articulate themselves the hardware part...

That should be enough for good money the time being.

Neuralink is not the only way to get brain function data. There have been cases where brain damage has occurred and where the brain did its own rewiring. Bionic eyes and bionic ears are still a ways off. I am glad this technology exists but the promise lays far into the future. I know someone with genetic hearing loss. No amount of brain-machine interface will solve that problem unless the damaged portion of the ears can be replaced with a synthetic version. Perhaps nanoengineering will solve this problem, perhaps not.
Yes. But the way Musk do things, it will certainly be massive and rapid, opening vast horizons to source knowledge for research. Samples quality has also all the chance to be good for cash flow won't be presumably a governing factor.
 

edwest

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There is also Stentrode from a company in Australia. It has also received FDA approval. It does not involve drilling into the skull, and appears to be further along in terms of delivering something patients can use in the very near future.
 
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