Drones and how to kill them?

TomcatViP said:
Please consider that micro-UAS will be way less relevant in a moving environment where armored vehicles excel. .
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Counterpoint: some of those small FPV racing drones are insanely fast and maneuverable. Too small to punch through an armored vehicles armor... but more than enough to blow the head off a human. Tanks are very often driven with the drivers head out for the simple fact that they can see far better that way. The introduction of semi autonomous "driver sniper" drones will force tanks to stay buttoned up, slowing them down.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Counterpoint: some of those small FPV racing drones are insanely fast and maneuverable. Too small to punch through an armored vehicles armor... but more than enough to blow the head off a human. Tanks are very often driven with the drivers head out for the simple fact that they can see far better that way. The introduction of semi autonomous "driver sniper" drones will force tanks to stay buttoned up, slowing them down.
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When they get smart enough they'll be able to target gun barrels. Don't need to blow up the tank, just use a small shaped charge to punch a hole in the wall of the gun.
 
sferrin said:
When they get smart enough they'll be able to target gun barrels. Don't need to blow up the tank, just use a small shaped charge to punch a hole in the wall of the gun.
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I like the idea of minibots that can be *precise* in deploying small thermite charges... that then proceed to weld the hatches closed. Followed by minibots armed with cans of spray paint to go after sensors and periscopes. Then others that do nothing but skitter around on top of the tank and tap loudly on the armor plating.

Sure, there are hatches on the underside. That's where the the spiderbots are lurking. Even better: they "titter" when the underside hatch opens. "Tee hee! Come out and play-ay!"

It's a dream I have.
 
Great... Instead of Terminators and HKs, we get the cyber version of Rob Bottin's spider head.
 
publiusr said:
Great... Instead of Terminators and HKs, we get the cyber version of Rob Bottin's spider head.
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I'd take the bots over that one. One Thing specimen, landing in the ocean would convert the entire planet.
 
www.defenseone.com

Ukraine’s soldiers use cheap tech to hide from Russia’s deadly drones

But the makers of lifesaving drone detectors can’t keep up with demand.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com

Tunnels with cloth covering preventing observation seems to be a way to deal with FPVs. With some internal compartmentalization it should work great.

I expect dropped incendiary grenades on drones as countermeasure if this defense becomes common.
 
GTX said:
www.thedrive.com

Tank Active Protection Systems Could Be Used To Shoot Down Drones

Active protection systems already installed on heavy armored vehicles to swat down missiles and rockets could possibly do the same for drones.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
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That would require some extra programming to be able to ID drones as a threat. APS can currently just use Constant Bearing Decreasing Range as a threat indicator. Drones will not necessarily fly that course while still being a threat to a tank.

That also means you're expending APS rounds on drones and not on ATGMs.
 
GTX said:
www.thedrive.com

Tank Active Protection Systems Could Be Used To Shoot Down Drones

Active protection systems already installed on heavy armored vehicles to swat down missiles and rockets could possibly do the same for drones.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
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Shotgun APS is to vehicle missile difference, 25mm is to ship anti-air. It is not enough range for additional intercepts after failure, not enough range to avoid some damage and not enough range to avoid standoff attack techniques.

Airburst autocannons point of the future. Networked vehicle fleets throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the air when swarms show up is totally expected. If 18" artillery had AA ammo, I think every tube that can launch projectiles for land forces will get them too. Layered and massive defenses is needed for reliable defense. Dual Purpose weapons also get far more value than single purpose ones in this environment.
 
asVAL said:
The problem is that it's too expensive. Trophy is decade-old by now and the US Army is still struggling to field them on SEPv3s slated for upgrade.
Asking the US Army to spend hundreds of millions buying new APS, when it's already busy with funding the LRPF portfolio into service, MSHORAD, ALE/FTUAS, FVL, NGSW et al all stretched across a tight budget and schedule is wishful thinking. The US Army has far too many areas it has ignored as a result of decade-long SOCOM propaganda, politics and mismanagement, and only now is it moving to fix those weaknesses while being cash-strapped to the extreme.
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The US Army has been having problems implementing APS because the budget hasn't been there. Congress is not giving the necessary funds, meaning that the US Army has to choose what to implement now instead of later and how to retain people... which is the story of the US military since it's inception.

That's literally it.
publiusr said:
Great... Instead of Terminators and HKs, we get the cyber version of Rob Bottin's spider head.
Click to expand...
Er, it'll probably still be Termies and HKs, largely because the new minimum of drones is increasingly going into 'you need AGIs' territory.
 
shin_getter said:
Airburst autocannons point of the future. Networked vehicle fleets throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the air when swarms show up is totally expected. If 18" artillery had AA ammo, I think every tube that can launch projectiles for land forces will get them too. Layered and massive defenses is needed for reliable defense. Dual Purpose weapons also get far more value than single purpose ones in this environment.
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While I generally agree with you, the big guns have too low a rate of fire to be effective for AA, even with guided projectiles.

I expect the next generation of tanks to have multiple hard-kill APS and multiple soft-kill APS. The trick with the hard-kill APS is enough range to give the inner layers time to react. Iron Curtain is able to be the last ditch option for rounds that contact. Then you have something like Trophy or Arena for the middle range. Then you have something like Quick Kill for the long range, and by that I mean most of 1km engagement range. There's probably going to be a 50-100kw laser and a HPM for drones and top attack ATGMs.
 
I don't want to go too off topic but it's interesting to me that revolver cannons are the weapon of choice for these new systems like Skyranger. Compared to rotary Gatling-type autocannons they must be much more adaptable to using smart airburst ammunition like AHEAD but I'm wondering why in the past they've never really been used in land-based air defense systems either in self-propelled or towed form?
 
Colonial-Marine said:
I don't want to go too off topic but it's interesting to me that revolver cannons are the weapon of choice for these new systems like Skyranger. Compared to rotary Gatling-type autocannons they must be much more adaptable to using smart airburst ammunition like AHEAD but I'm wondering why in the past they've never really been used in land-based air defense systems either in self-propelled or towed form?
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I'm not really sure revolver cannons are more adaptable to airbursting rounds, it's just that such rounds have generally favoured a higher calibre and there aren't many 35-40mm gatling guns.
 
Colonial-Marine said:
I don't want to go too off topic but it's interesting to me that revolver cannons are the weapon of choice for these new systems like Skyranger. Compared to rotary Gatling-type autocannons they must be much more adaptable to using smart airburst ammunition like AHEAD but I'm wondering why in the past they've never really been used in land-based air defense systems either in self-propelled or towed form?
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1) revolver cannons spin up faster, so the first half-second of burst fired is at closer to 80% of nominal cyclic rate instead of the ~60% of a gatling.
2) the smart airburst ammo needs to be bigger diameter, and there are very few large bore gatling cannons.
 
GruntFox said:
The US Army has been having problems implementing APS because the budget hasn't been there. Congress is not giving the necessary funds, meaning that the US Army has to choose what to implement now instead of later and how to retain people... which is the story of the US military since it's inception.

That's literally it.

Er, it'll probably still be Termies and HKs, largely because the new minimum of drones is increasingly going into 'you need AGIs' territory.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1750431211070066829
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1750431211070066829

This guy is describing the above scenario. Scary stuff.

 
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One man can control 100 drones

‘Swarm’ of more than 100 drones controlled by one person

www.imeche.org www.imeche.org
interestingengineering.com

We are Legion: One person 'swarm commander' can now control 100 drones

Oregon State University research shows that one person can supervise over 100 autonomous ground and aerial robots without being overburdened.
interestingengineering.com interestingengineering.com

Ways to extend their range
phys.org

Physics of V-shaped flight formations offer insights into energy efficiency

Birds have inspired human flight for centuries, but Shabnam Raayai thinks they can also offer lessons in reducing energy consumption.
phys.org

The air-cannon concepts of WWII more effective here?
 
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Spy-drones and self-drivers
techxplore.com

A fully autonomous drone system for cinematography and wildlife monitoring

Recent technological advances, such as increasingly sophisticated drones and cameras, have opened exciting new possibilities for cinematography. Most notably, film directors can now shoot scenes from a wide range of angles that were previously inaccessible and in far higher resolution.
techxplore.com techxplore.com
techxplore.com

First in-depth survey on the topic of deep transfer learning for intelligent vehicle perception

An international group of scientists has published a paper in the journal Green Energy and Intelligent Transportation, summarizing a comprehensive review of deep transfer learning for intelligent vehicle perception.
techxplore.com techxplore.com

Drone cloak
phys.org

Designing a drone that uses adaptive invisibility: Towards autonomous sea-land-air cloaks

The idea of objects seamlessly disappearing, not just in controlled laboratory environments but also in real-world scenarios, has long captured the popular imagination. This concept epitomizes the trajectory of human civilization, from primitive camouflage techniques to the sophisticated...
phys.org phys.org

Uh-oh...
phys.org

Micro mirage: Researchers fabricate the world's smallest QR code using infrared information carrier

Credit cards embedded chips, national mints printed watermarks, and high-profile locations installed retina scanners all for the same reason—to protect information. As attackers grow smarter, so must defense.
phys.org phys.org

"With this technology we are ultimately distorting an objects' thermal signature," said Li. "We have the power to disguise how objects are displayed on an infrared camera. Hypothetically, if we laid the brochosome pixels accordingly, we could paint a patrol car to appear as a delivery van to infrared security."
 
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A UGV with an optical turret and an M230LR firing air-bursting rounds might work quite well without putting an easily detected and expensive asset in artillery range.
 
Forest Green said:
A UGV with an optical turret and an M230LR firing air-bursting rounds might work quite well without putting an easily detected and expensive asset in artillery range.
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I don't think there's a good area-search optical sensor in existence, though.
 

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