Development of Project 11442M Admiral Nakhimov - Kirov

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Ronny

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In 2015, there were some information about the retrofit 48N6DMK (250 km range anti air missile) into Admiral Nakhimov. Is that still going on?. How many 48N6DMK can it carry?.
Furthermore, why didn't they retrofit that into Pyotr Velikiy as well?
 
The Kirovs are dramatic looking ships but it is hard to see them surviving NATO SSNs in any shooting war.
But for peacetime flag waving they will be without comparison.
 
uk 75 said:
The Kirovs are dramatic looking ships but it is hard to see them surviving NATO SSNs in any shooting war.
But for peacetime flag waving they will be without comparison.
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I don't think any surface ship really supposed to survive SSNs, may be an aircraft carrier can fight back somewhat with its anti submarine heli, but still. Surface ship are basically food to submarine in most situation
 
Weren't they designed as fleet killers? But they have every weaponry developed in the padt 50 years, medium calibre guns, ciws, torpedoes, sam, anti ship missiles asw missiles, helis
 
Kirov was a latter day Bismark. She and her few sisters would have broken out into the Atlantic and repesented a very real threat.
NATO relied totally on carriers to do the same job. The four Iowas were more gunnery support.
Dilandu is right that they would have been harder to kill than I suggested above.
 
Tzoli said:
Weren't they designed as fleet killers? But they have every weaponry developed in the padt 50 years, medium calibre guns, ciws, torpedoes, sam, anti ship missiles asw missiles, helis
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No, that's the irony. Initially it was TWO nuclear-powered 8000-ton ships on the same hull; anti-submarine ship (project 1144), and missile cruiser (project 1165). Anti-submarine ship was supposed to hunt the US boomers, and cruiser was supposed to ward off US surface ships (both carried SAM's). But then it was considered impractical to left anti-submarine ship without anti-ship missiles, so they were added. This led to displacement increase. Since both ships were supposed to use the same hull, cruiser was enlarged also, so it became possible to put some anti-submarine weapons on it... At that point, designers realized, that they could have better results by just building one big ship with both anti-ship and anti-submarine missiles. So the project 1165 cruiser was abandoned, and project 1144 anti-submarine ship enlarged to perform both functions. Then came other ideas - like to put a brand-new (but massive) multi-channel S-300F SAM on it, then admiral Gorshkov, dissatisfied with the reliability of the available reactors, ordered auxilary oil-fueled boilers installed... Essentially as the result, the project 1144 anti-submarine ship grew into 24000-ton behemoth, bristling with basically every state-of-art weapon system of Soviet navy.
 
Dilandu said:
Ronny said:
Surface ship are basically food to submarine in most situation
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Er... Kirov-class cruisers were born as nuclear-powered submarine hunters. Submarines are THEIR food.
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No surface ship gonna be as quiet as a submarine, sometimes they even struggle to detect submarine from 5-10 km, so I highly skeptical that Kirov (or any surface ship can truly deal with submarine),
 
Grey Havoc said:
Tzoli said:
Weren't they designed as fleet killers?
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That too. Especially fleets and task forces based around carriers.
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To be fair though, despite the hype, an aircraft carrier still pose more threat to a Kirov than a Kirov can do to a carrier. Given that a carrier can attack from much greater distance than Kirov even if Kirov is equipped with Zircon
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I have my doubts that a 24,000 ton cruiser is the ideal platform for anti-submarine work. Seems something better delegated to destroyers and frigates.
 
Ronny said:
No surface ship gonna be as quiet as a submarine, sometimes they even struggle to detect submarine from 5-10 km, so I highly skeptical that Kirov (or any surface ship can truly deal with submarine),
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Well, the situation is more complicated. Sure, submarine is quieter than surface ship - as long as she moves slowly. Raise speed - and situation changes not exactly in favor of submarines. They do not have unlimited supply of air to use acoustic camouflage systems (like Praire-Maker) like surface ships could.
 
Except Nuclear Submarines had unlimited oxygen supply and the USN does not field a single military diesel-electric submarine.
I don't know from how deep the subs can launch anti shipping torpedoes. Or even what is the Modus Operandi of modern submarines regarding anti surface warfare! Against military ships, cargo/transport ships, convoys. Using Torpedoes or Anti ship missiles or both.
 
Latest Google maps capture on Severodvinsk show Admiral Nakhimov and Admiral Gorshkov at one frame. Using photoshop i want to know how many Redut cells can be placed on top Kinzhal launcher. Sadly, the location of Kinzhal launcher on Nakhimov is obscured by some facilities needed to modernize it, so i placed Pyotr Velikiy on top of it.
So from my effort, 64 Redut cells can be placed on top 16 Kinzhal launcher. Giving the ability to put 128 9M100 and 32 9M96.
 

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