De Schelde designations

Apophenia

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More holes than filling but here's a start on De Schelde designations. Can anyone fill gaps or add other designations?
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Koninklijke Maatschappij "De Schelde" aircraft designations

Scheldemusch, ultra-light biplane pusher (40hp Praga B, tricycle u/c). Sometimes called De Schelde Sparrow.

Scheldemeeuw 1936 (1-seat flying boat, 1 x 40hp Praga B, pusher, based on Scheldemusch landplane) http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/law1/s12/s12-2.jpg [here mis-identified as S.12/S.13]
Scheldemeeuw mod 1938. Do-24 analogue with scaled down metal hull
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/law1/s12.html [here mis-identified as S.12]

De Schelde S.1 - [Project] Pander commercial a/c, six-engined, twin-boomed
De Schelde S.2 - [Project] Pander commercial a/c, four pusher engines
De Schelde S.3 - [Project] Pander commercial a/c, three-engined, high wing
De Schelde S.4 - [Project] Militair medium bomber/long range reconnaissance aircraft.
De Schelde S.5 -
De Schelde S.6 -
De Schelde S.7 -
De Schelde S.8 - [Project] small airliner with Junkers Jumo diesels, 1935.
De Schelde S.9 -
De Schelde S.10 -
De Schelde S.11 -
De Schelde S.12 - Four-seat, low wing tourer (130hp Gipsy Major)
De Schelde S.13 -
De Schelde S.14 -
De Schelde S.15 -
De Schelde S.16 -
De Schelde S.17 -
De Schelde S.18 -
De Schelde S.19 - [Project] twin-engined, mid-wing 'jachtkruiser', crew of 4. (Similar to Fokker ontwerp 193, a G.1 look-alike.)
De Schelde S.20 - twin-boomed pusher (1 x 160hp Hirth, 2-seater)
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other2/s20.html
De Schelde S.21 - [Project/incomplete] twin-boomed fighter (1 x 1085hp DB600G)
De Schelde S.22 - [Project] to 1938 specification. Single-seat, high-wing, twin-boomed fighter. Pusher prop driven by a R-R Merlin II. Two MGs and one cannon in nose, one cannon in each wing.
De Schelde S.23 -
De Schelde S.24 - [Project] 2-seat reconnaissance aircraft based on S.22. High-wing, pusher prop driven by Isotta-Fraschini Asso 120 IRCC 40.
De Schelde S.25 - [Project] 2-seat combat aircraft. Gull wing, pusher prop driven by Isotta-Fraschini Asso 120 IRCC 40.
De Schelde S.26 - [Project] Ontwerp 75. Twin-boomed, 6 x pusher prop airliner (50-pax)
De Schelde S.27 -
De Schelde S.28 -
De Schelde S.29 -
De Schelde S.30 -
De Schelde S.31 -
De Schelde S.32 - [Project] dive bomber
De Schelde S.33 - [Project] single seat/single engined high-speed mailplane

De Schelde Jae-4301 - [Project] twin-boom, retractable float airliner (200-pax), 2 tractors, 1 pusher.
De Schelde Jae-4302 - [Project] scaled-down Jae-4301, 3 tractors, one pusher. Turboprop proposed.
http://cmeunier.chez-alice.fr/TEOFG1.pdf
 

hesham

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Hi,

S-8 small airliner with Jumo Diesel engines,data from 1935,project only
S-32 project for dive bomber
S-33 project for speed mailplane
 

Apophenia

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Thanks Hesham.

I'm wondering if the S.33 high-speed mailplane is the model/mock-up you have added to the "De Schelde bomber aircraft" thread.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5276.0.html
 

lark

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The De Schelde S-33 was a single seat/single engined high speed aircraft
mentioned in "De Nederlands Vliegtuigencyclopedie-Schelde musch en Scheldemeeuw"
as a racer.

The first De schelde aircraft was de S-12, a four seat low wing tourer powered
by a 130hp Gipsy Major.

'S' indication stand for Slot the designer who before worked for Pander.
 

Apophenia

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lark said:
The De Schelde S-33 was a single seat/single engined high speed aircraft
mentioned in "De Nederlands Vliegtuigencyclopedie-Schelde musch en Scheldemeeuw"
as a racer.
Thanks Lark. Obviously not Hesham's three-engined aircraft then!

lark said:
'S' indication stand for Slot the designer who before worked for Pander.
And before that, Theo Slot worked for VIH (Vliegtuig Industrie Holland). :)
 

lark

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The 'Scheldemusch'
and 'Scheldemeeuw'

never received an official De Schelde 'S' designation, only just their name.
 

Apophenia

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Thanks for the corrections, Lark.

That makes better sense of the serial numbers. I noted that the De Schelde numbers follow on from Pander c/ns -- 47 was the last Pander E (c/n 24/I rebuilt). Then:

De Schelde S.12 c/n 48
De Schelde Scheldemusch c/n 49
De Schelde Scheldemeeuw c/n 50
De Schelde Scheldemusch c/n 51, 52, 53, 54, 55
De Schelde S.20 c/n 56
De Schelde Scheldemeeuw c/n 57

So, you've already told us that the S.12 was "a four seat low wing tourer powered
by a 130hp Gipsy Major". What the heck were the S.13 and S.14 ???
 

Jos Heyman

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Actually, the S-4 design was the Pander Postjager.
Refer Wesselink, T and Postma, T, De Nederlandse Vliegtuigen, p. 87
 

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Thanks Jos.

The overlapping Pander/De Schelde designations are all very confusing.

Lark said: "The military variant of the Pander 'Postjager' was the Pander S.4 'Militair' a planned medium bomber or long range reconnaissence aircraft."

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2742.0

I've assumed that the De Schelde S.4 designation would be applied to an on-going project (the Postjager having been abandoned with the collapse of Pander as an aircraft maker). De Schelde certainly intended to proceed with Postjager-derived military aircraft (see Hesham's post). Do you have confirmation that De Schelde also intended to continue with the Postjager itself?

Cheers
 

Jos Heyman

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No mention of it in the Wesselink/Postma book.

Here is a list of the Slot designed aircraft that I have found in the book. The first number is the construction number and there is also the registration.

1 Holland H-1 not built
2 Holland H-1 H-NACD
3 Holland H-1 not built
4 Holland H-1 not built
5 Holland H-1 not built
6 Holland H-1 not built
7 Holland H-2 H-NACE
8 ?
9 ?
10 Pander D H-NACM
11 Pander D H-NACN
12 Pander D H-NACO
13 Pander D H-NACS
14 Pander D MLD P-1
15 Pander D MLD P-2
16 Pander D ML-KNIL P-501?
17 Pander D H-NACW, PK-SAB
18 Pander E H-NADI
19 Pander D ML-KNIL P-502?
20 Pander E PH-AEQ
21 Pander D H-NADL
22 Pander E H-NADV
23 Pander E H-NADW
24 Pander E H-NAEJ, PH-AJB
25 Pander E H-NAEV
26 Pander E PH-AEX
27 Pander E PH-AKA
28 Pander P.1 PH-AGM
29 Pander P.2 PH-AGN
30 Pander E PH-AFJ
31 Pander E PH-AFZ
32 Pander E PK-SAH?
33 Pander E PH-AFM
34 Mayer M.1 PH-2
35 Pander E PH-AFN
36 Pander E PH-AFP, PH-AIT
37 Pander E PK-SAJ?
38 Pander E PH-AFX
39 Pander E PH-AIA
40 Pander E PH-AIB
41 Pander P.3 PH-AIK
42 Pander Multipro PH-AIU
43 Pander Multipro PH-AIV
44 Pander Multipro PH-AIX
45 ? PK-SAW?
46 Pander Postjager PH-OST
47 Pander E PH-AJB
48 Schelde S.12 PH-KGH
49 Schelde Scheldemus PH-ALB
50 Schelde Scheldemeeuw PH-ALK
51 Schelde Scheldemus PH-AMA
52 Schelde Scheldemus PH-AME
53 Schelde Scheldemus PH-AMG
54 Schelde Scheldemus PH-AMH
55 Schelde Scheldemus PH-AMI
56 Schelde S-20 PH-ATY
57 Schelde Scheldemeeuw PH-ATM
 

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Jos, you have anticipated me ;D I was just preparing a type list of produced VIH and Pander types!

To your list, I can only add a few glider types:

Pander PH-1 Zögling - 1930. A copy of the Stamer & Lippische Z-12 Zögling ('Pupil', designed by Alexander Lippisch). Replica at the Aviodrome.
http://www.aviodrome.nl/themapark/expositie/collectie-overzicht/M-W.asp

Pander PH-2 Mayer - 1930. Copy of German M.1 sailplane by Hermann Mayer. Used by ENZC club.

Pander SG-38 (Schulgleiter) - 1940?. Licenced Schneider DFS 108-14 for NSFK (555 built). http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1093296/

I haven't come across a PH- designation for the SG-38. Come to that, I'm not even sure if the PH-xx are actually Pander designations (Dutch gliders of the time all seem to be refered to by their PH- registration markings - for example, see: http://www.grunaubaby.nl/baby_in_nederland.htm )
 

Jos Heyman

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Herman Dekker's 'The Complete Civil Aircraft Registers of The Netherlands since 1920' lists registration PH-1 as a Zogling RRG and PH-2 as a Mayer M.1. So, PH s a civil registration, not a Pander designation.
 

lark

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I remember that a few years ago a Dutch aviation magazine
produced a multipage article about unbuilt 'De Schelde' designs.
(no drawings,only descriptions)
Unfortunately I can't find the concerning mag.and text.
Is there someone who who can remeber it and who haves the magazine?
 

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Jos Heyman said:
Herman Dekker's 'The Complete Civil Aircraft Registers of The Netherlands since 1920' lists registration PH-1 as a Zogling RRG and PH-2 as a Mayer M.1. So, PH s a civil registration, not a Pander designation.
Ah, so does that mean that (presumably like the SG-38) the licence-built Zögling and M.1 never received Pander designations at all?
 

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A bit more about some De Schelde designs...

S.19 : two engined midwing 'jachtkruiser' crew of 4.Concept had much of the
Fokker ontwerp 193 who was much a G.1 loo alike.
S.22 : single seat highwing fighter with pusher prop driven by a R.R.II(?)
Two MG's and one canon in the nose,two in the wing.
S.24 : Isotta Fraschini Asso A 120R.CC.40 powered two seat combat aircraft.
High wing with pusher prop.
S.25 : two seat combat aircraft with gull wing and pusher prop.same engine as in the S.24.

abridged translation from an article by: F.Gerdessen in 'Luchtvaart' January 1998.
 

hesham

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Hi,

the PH-3 was an open cockpit two seat light aircraft,a version
with 120 hp De Havilland Gipsy III,later modified to have an
enclosed cabin,only one was built.
 

Jos Heyman

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Going through the Wesselink/Postma book I referred in an earlier post I came across (p. 18) the Carley S.1, a 1919 small aircraft. Slot was working with Carley in the early part of his career and this could be 'his' S.1 - although the book does not specifically state this.
The entire thing is, of course, complicated by the fact that Fokker used the letter 'S' extensively for its training aircraft.
 

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Thanks Hesham,

That description fits the Pander P-3. I think we've established that PH-3 was simply the registration for a Zögling glider -- a German (Schleicher-built) RRG-1 according to Herman Dekker.
 

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Verrry interesting, Jos.

What other Joop Carley designs are out there? I have Carley's L-11 biplane, the 1923 C-12 'Flying Bicycle', and the KLM 'Jumbo'.

The 'Jumbo' is too late to have involved Slot. But we know that the C-12 was developed into Slot's H.2 for VIH. So, going out on a thin limb ... if the Carley S.1 is also Slot's S.1, might Carley's C-12 have been Slot's S.2?
 

hesham

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Hi,

does anyone hear about Pander J-2 airplane ?.
 

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Never heard of it, therewas a pander p-2 and the ph-2 glider
 

hesham

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Gjalt said:
Never heard of it, therewas a pander p-2 and the ph-2 glider
Maybe you are right Gjalt,and it's misprint ?.
 

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hesham

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Many thanks my dear Apophenia.
 
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