Scott Kenny
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"Work smarter, not harder."
Dark Moon Rising: Archibald space TL
- Thread starter Archibald
- Start date
Some more fun with John Frost RFGT studies, and WS-606A.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-asfs-news-analysis.3536/page-121#post-575058
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/avro-ws606a.10654/
Funny how WS-606A basic shape superficially looks like a 6th generation tailless fighter. No control surfaces and minimal "wing".
Loved that Bill Rose book. He notes how Lockheed engineer Nathan C. Price realized WS-606A could be "pre-stealth" in the days when they were trying to make U-2 and A-12 less visible to radar.
https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Projects-Flying-Saucer-Aircraft/dp/1857802330
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-asfs-news-analysis.3536/page-121#post-575058
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/avro-ws606a.10654/
Funny how WS-606A basic shape superficially looks like a 6th generation tailless fighter. No control surfaces and minimal "wing".
Loved that Bill Rose book. He notes how Lockheed engineer Nathan C. Price realized WS-606A could be "pre-stealth" in the days when they were trying to make U-2 and A-12 less visible to radar.
https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Projects-Flying-Saucer-Aircraft/dp/1857802330
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Working my way through that fantastic substack. God bless Nick Stevens !
Little bit of alternate history here
https://graphicsnickstevens.substack.com/p/what-could-the-soviet-lunar-program
The N-11 is the key. In my TL, it gets greenlighted in 1967, the first one is build out of N1-4L (which cracked its Block A LOX tanks)
N-11 gradually replace Proton in the early 1970's.
The reason of that decision : in August 1967 a luckier Lunar Orbiter 5 images the 200 ft wide Marius Hills Hole: a stunning discovery which excites NASA and drive the Soviets into a US lunar base panic. They have to reorganize their scattered lunar programs.
Little bit of alternate history here
https://graphicsnickstevens.substack.com/p/what-could-the-soviet-lunar-program
The N-11 is the key. In my TL, it gets greenlighted in 1967, the first one is build out of N1-4L (which cracked its Block A LOX tanks)
N-11 gradually replace Proton in the early 1970's.
The reason of that decision : in August 1967 a luckier Lunar Orbiter 5 images the 200 ft wide Marius Hills Hole: a stunning discovery which excites NASA and drive the Soviets into a US lunar base panic. They have to reorganize their scattered lunar programs.
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Random thoughts about Starship refueling - to the Moon or Mars.
-The key to make it happen is to rapid-fire SH-Starships, machine-gun style. This is what Orbital Launch Mount is designed for: recover, relaunch, recover, relaunch like a well-oiled machine.
-Analysis of NASA HLS contracts to SpaceX show that as many as 20 launches (!!) might be needed just to send a single Starship to the Moon.
[Btw I know boiloff is a major PITA, but that number seems a little excessive. 14 might be closer from the truth : 7 x 200 mt = 1400 mt.]
-Which brings a few interesting obstacles to overcome:
a) vertical launch : noise, vibrations, sonic booms
b) TSTO : elements recovery, re-stacking, and re-launch ASAP
c) orbital mechanics of a fixed launch pad (against the Starship waiting its refueling in orbit)
Bottom line: a), b) and c) must be mastered; into a well-oiled machine that can rapid-fire Starship tankers.
This is one of the most fascinating sides of that Starship business, and obviously has never been done - nor even imagined - before.
"Rapid-fire TSTO refueling".
-The key to make it happen is to rapid-fire SH-Starships, machine-gun style. This is what Orbital Launch Mount is designed for: recover, relaunch, recover, relaunch like a well-oiled machine.
-Analysis of NASA HLS contracts to SpaceX show that as many as 20 launches (!!) might be needed just to send a single Starship to the Moon.
[Btw I know boiloff is a major PITA, but that number seems a little excessive. 14 might be closer from the truth : 7 x 200 mt = 1400 mt.]
-Which brings a few interesting obstacles to overcome:
a) vertical launch : noise, vibrations, sonic booms
b) TSTO : elements recovery, re-stacking, and re-launch ASAP
c) orbital mechanics of a fixed launch pad (against the Starship waiting its refueling in orbit)
Bottom line: a), b) and c) must be mastered; into a well-oiled machine that can rapid-fire Starship tankers.
This is one of the most fascinating sides of that Starship business, and obviously has never been done - nor even imagined - before.
"Rapid-fire TSTO refueling".
Scott Kenny
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Yeah, Starship is pretty impressive. Imagine launching one every week or less.
Not "a" Starship. Launching a Starship on June 2nd, and launching that same Starship again on June 9th.
Not "a" Starship. Launching a Starship on June 2nd, and launching that same Starship again on June 9th.
Titans space
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=60958.0They are trying to build Star Raker for real - much improved over almost 50 years, obviously.
Let's be clear : technically bonkers, goofy renderings;
- but the vision is bold and enthralling at least. I may borrow a few bits of their "vision" and enthusiasm.
That old dream of an orbital airliner...
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=60958.0They are trying to build Star Raker for real - much improved over almost 50 years, obviously.
Let's be clear : technically bonkers, goofy renderings;
- but the vision is bold and enthralling at least. I may borrow a few bits of their "vision" and enthusiasm.
That old dream of an orbital airliner...
BERLIN WALL IN SPACE
SPACE STATION ZVEZDA
Ilya Patchikov and Ivan Popov could have been the first Soviet citizens to the Moon in August 1974. They have trained very hard – for weeks they worked eighteen hours a day. But at the last moment and to their great dismay the Politburo decided the mission will be entirely automated; and by a fitting irony for the first time the Soviet Moon machines perfectly worked, including the very troublesome N-1 rocket. And then the Soviet lunar program is cancelled as too late and too backwards when compared to Apollo.
From 1973 onwards the two frustrated cosmonauts get involved with the Apollo – Soyuz test program, visiting the United States and befriending American astronauts Pruett and Johnson. They learn about the Apollo – Soyuz radio link; they visit mockups of the future American space station.
In the process they learn an all-important information: as the heir of Skylab, the american station is to be launched on a 52 degree inclination orbit - to overfly more landmasses. On the Soviet side, a similar inclination of 52 degrees is dictated by Baikonur own inclination, relative to the equator.
Within two years after the Apollo–Soyuz linking Popov and Patchikov hear of Sablin and Belenko mutiny and defection, both due to the Brezhnev era stagnation and corruption; and are troubled by it. Growing more and more disillusioned by the late Brezhnev era ramping corruption Popov and Patchikov patiently elaborate a plot.
At some point in the early 80's they learn that Pruett and Johnson are to man Liberty, so they decide to go into action.
They are send to space station Zvezda, an advanced orbital facility with artificial gravity provided by spinning around Salyut-like modules. After some days they pretext a health emergency, and an hurried undocking; to be followed by a direct reentry. They then told ground control that the hurried undocking has consumed most of the Soyuz propellant, leaving them stranded in orbit. For a period they also shut contact with the ground. Their plan is revealed: thanks to the extraordinary orbital inclination coincidence, they will jump ship - and go West.
Accordingly, they use their Soyuz meagre propellant supply to get close from the American space station. But they can't dock as the rings are not compatible; so a sortie is needed.
Initially the American crew refuses to accept them onboard. The Soviet crew then elaborates an outrageous scheme to twist arm of the American crew. The Soyuz first gets as close as possible from the Liberty airlock. Then the crew don their space suits before opening the Soyuz docking ring, depressurizing their spaceship. Popov crawls through the docking tunnel into space, and extends his arms outside the Soyuz, with the aim of gripping the American space station external airlock hatch with his gloved hands. Patchikov has to carefully manoeuver the Soyuz in order not to crush his crewmate.
The daring manoeuver ultimately succeeds. Standing halfway through the Soyuz docking ring Popov then secures his position with a rope, while Patchikov uses him like an human ladder until he grasp, too, the Liberty airlock external hatch. But the Soyuz is still very close from the two cosmonauts, and there is a real threat they might be crushed by a collision between their spaceship and Liberty. Popov and Patchikov then try a radical approach: they forcefully and repeatedly kick the Soyuz with their feet so that it moves away from them, an exhausting ordeal that ultimately works.
The American crew watch the scene, startled, and report to the ground : expressedly asking to welcome the cosmonauts onboard.
With the Soviet suit providing only seven hours of life-support, the Americans have to take a difficult decision very fast. Under orders from the U.S government NASA order the Soviet cosmonauts to move back to their Soyuz and reenter Earth atmosphere. The space station crew will do his best to help the Soyuz desorbit, either with the robotic arm or using one of their Agena space tug.
But the Soviet crew refuse to comply. Ultimately Pruett and Johnson desobey orders and get the Soviets onboard, creating a dangerous situation - quickly defused. Once aboard space station Liberty Popov and Patchikov ask for political asylum in the United States.
The situation is made even more explosive considering the events happens late 1983, in an era of tension never seen since the Cuban crisis of 1962. Tension peaks as all of sudden Houston warns the Liberty crew that the Soviet have launched an I.S satellite killer near the American space station; they threaten to cripple the American space station.
This prompt president Reagan to call Andropov on the red phone, with a heated exchange happening between the two men. Ultimately the Soviets desorbit the killer satellite as a gesture of goodwill.
Another threat is the abandonned Soyuz that dangerously drift near Liberty; the American crew decides to to use the robotic arm to pick up the Soviet spaceship and keep it at a safe distance from Liberty. A major issue is that the Soyuz lacks a grapple fixture compatible with the arm end. Instead the Liberty crew tries to clamp the arm end on a Soyuz antenna but the manoeuver goes awfully wrong. The antenna bends and breaks, sending the Soyuz tumbling into a wild spin, hitting and breaking the robotic arm. The Soyuz then strike Liberty, causing a small fire and damaging a solar array. Ultimately the Liberty crew decide to fire an Agena space tug to move the space station away from the battered Soyuz, and the manoeuver successfully clear the american space station from any danger.
Meanwhile Andropov is bargaining with Reagan. He will let the crew goes to the United States if Reagan roll back his Strategic Defense Initiative. Reagan, striken by Soviet panick vis a vis the Able Archer excercice and “The day after” gloomy movie decides to make concessions, perhaps through a meeting with Andropov.
In the end Reagan asks Congress to enact a bill granting asylum to the Soviet crew. A trust fund will be set up for them, granting them a very comfortable living. The meeting between Reagan and a terminally ill Andropov never happens, but it paves the way to Gorbatchev perestroika and the end of Cold War – earlier than in our universe, in 1987.
SPACE STATION ZVEZDA
Ilya Patchikov and Ivan Popov could have been the first Soviet citizens to the Moon in August 1974. They have trained very hard – for weeks they worked eighteen hours a day. But at the last moment and to their great dismay the Politburo decided the mission will be entirely automated; and by a fitting irony for the first time the Soviet Moon machines perfectly worked, including the very troublesome N-1 rocket. And then the Soviet lunar program is cancelled as too late and too backwards when compared to Apollo.
From 1973 onwards the two frustrated cosmonauts get involved with the Apollo – Soyuz test program, visiting the United States and befriending American astronauts Pruett and Johnson. They learn about the Apollo – Soyuz radio link; they visit mockups of the future American space station.
In the process they learn an all-important information: as the heir of Skylab, the american station is to be launched on a 52 degree inclination orbit - to overfly more landmasses. On the Soviet side, a similar inclination of 52 degrees is dictated by Baikonur own inclination, relative to the equator.
Within two years after the Apollo–Soyuz linking Popov and Patchikov hear of Sablin and Belenko mutiny and defection, both due to the Brezhnev era stagnation and corruption; and are troubled by it. Growing more and more disillusioned by the late Brezhnev era ramping corruption Popov and Patchikov patiently elaborate a plot.
At some point in the early 80's they learn that Pruett and Johnson are to man Liberty, so they decide to go into action.
They are send to space station Zvezda, an advanced orbital facility with artificial gravity provided by spinning around Salyut-like modules. After some days they pretext a health emergency, and an hurried undocking; to be followed by a direct reentry. They then told ground control that the hurried undocking has consumed most of the Soyuz propellant, leaving them stranded in orbit. For a period they also shut contact with the ground. Their plan is revealed: thanks to the extraordinary orbital inclination coincidence, they will jump ship - and go West.
Accordingly, they use their Soyuz meagre propellant supply to get close from the American space station. But they can't dock as the rings are not compatible; so a sortie is needed.
Initially the American crew refuses to accept them onboard. The Soviet crew then elaborates an outrageous scheme to twist arm of the American crew. The Soyuz first gets as close as possible from the Liberty airlock. Then the crew don their space suits before opening the Soyuz docking ring, depressurizing their spaceship. Popov crawls through the docking tunnel into space, and extends his arms outside the Soyuz, with the aim of gripping the American space station external airlock hatch with his gloved hands. Patchikov has to carefully manoeuver the Soyuz in order not to crush his crewmate.
The daring manoeuver ultimately succeeds. Standing halfway through the Soyuz docking ring Popov then secures his position with a rope, while Patchikov uses him like an human ladder until he grasp, too, the Liberty airlock external hatch. But the Soyuz is still very close from the two cosmonauts, and there is a real threat they might be crushed by a collision between their spaceship and Liberty. Popov and Patchikov then try a radical approach: they forcefully and repeatedly kick the Soyuz with their feet so that it moves away from them, an exhausting ordeal that ultimately works.
The American crew watch the scene, startled, and report to the ground : expressedly asking to welcome the cosmonauts onboard.
With the Soviet suit providing only seven hours of life-support, the Americans have to take a difficult decision very fast. Under orders from the U.S government NASA order the Soviet cosmonauts to move back to their Soyuz and reenter Earth atmosphere. The space station crew will do his best to help the Soyuz desorbit, either with the robotic arm or using one of their Agena space tug.
But the Soviet crew refuse to comply. Ultimately Pruett and Johnson desobey orders and get the Soviets onboard, creating a dangerous situation - quickly defused. Once aboard space station Liberty Popov and Patchikov ask for political asylum in the United States.
The situation is made even more explosive considering the events happens late 1983, in an era of tension never seen since the Cuban crisis of 1962. Tension peaks as all of sudden Houston warns the Liberty crew that the Soviet have launched an I.S satellite killer near the American space station; they threaten to cripple the American space station.
This prompt president Reagan to call Andropov on the red phone, with a heated exchange happening between the two men. Ultimately the Soviets desorbit the killer satellite as a gesture of goodwill.
Another threat is the abandonned Soyuz that dangerously drift near Liberty; the American crew decides to to use the robotic arm to pick up the Soviet spaceship and keep it at a safe distance from Liberty. A major issue is that the Soyuz lacks a grapple fixture compatible with the arm end. Instead the Liberty crew tries to clamp the arm end on a Soyuz antenna but the manoeuver goes awfully wrong. The antenna bends and breaks, sending the Soyuz tumbling into a wild spin, hitting and breaking the robotic arm. The Soyuz then strike Liberty, causing a small fire and damaging a solar array. Ultimately the Liberty crew decide to fire an Agena space tug to move the space station away from the battered Soyuz, and the manoeuver successfully clear the american space station from any danger.
Meanwhile Andropov is bargaining with Reagan. He will let the crew goes to the United States if Reagan roll back his Strategic Defense Initiative. Reagan, striken by Soviet panick vis a vis the Able Archer excercice and “The day after” gloomy movie decides to make concessions, perhaps through a meeting with Andropov.
In the end Reagan asks Congress to enact a bill granting asylum to the Soviet crew. A trust fund will be set up for them, granting them a very comfortable living. The meeting between Reagan and a terminally ill Andropov never happens, but it paves the way to Gorbatchev perestroika and the end of Cold War – earlier than in our universe, in 1987.
martinbayer
ACCESS: Above Top Secret
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One of those things where I almost wish I liked popcorn...
B-52 ROLES IN SEA CONTROL Boeing Military Airplane Co., Wichita
A recommendation that B-52s be equipped with antiship missiles and committed to naval arenas to compensate for the inability of the Navy to patrol the entire world ocean is presented.
A US presence in any troubled area would then be possible within 24 hours, rather than three days, of any outbreak. Time would be gained for a rapid deployment force and/or a carrier group to reach the scene.
Each B-52 can carry 20 antiship missiles and perform missions such as ship escort, armed reconnaissance, sea-land protection, ocean blockade, and ship attack. Long-range sensing and launch of stand-off weapons is possible for the B-52. Attention is given to the problem of ship identification, in order to avoid attacks on friendly craft.
There has been a proposal to retrofit the older B-52s due for retirement for use in aerial mining and sea surveillance, but nothing came of it.
...
B-52 ROLES IN SPACE CONTROL
Harold S. Shoemaker, Project SCOOP - Vandenberg AFB. Edward Teller, Lawrence Livermore Laboratory.
A recommendation is presented that B-52s be equipped with Minuteman-Agena missiles; the latter spacecraft to be committed to space arenas to compensate for the present inability to patrol the entire Earth sphere of influence. Strategic spaceborne reconnaissance from low orbits to deep space is necessary to enforce the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.
Through air-launch, a US presence in any deep space area would then be possible within 24 hours, rather than days, of any outbreak. Compared to fixed launch bases, time would be gained for a rapid deployment space force to reach the scene.
Each B-52 can carry a pair of Minuteman-Agena boosters and perform missions such as anti-satellite, anti-ballistic and satellite inspection. Attention is given to the problem of satellite inspection, in order to avoid attacks on friendly spacecraft.
There has been a proposal to retrofit the older B-52s due for retirement (B-52B to B-52F) for use in aerial mining and sea surveillance, but nothing came of it. We suggest those planes could be used instead to launch Agena space patrol missions.
A recommendation that B-52s be equipped with antiship missiles and committed to naval arenas to compensate for the inability of the Navy to patrol the entire world ocean is presented.
A US presence in any troubled area would then be possible within 24 hours, rather than three days, of any outbreak. Time would be gained for a rapid deployment force and/or a carrier group to reach the scene.
Each B-52 can carry 20 antiship missiles and perform missions such as ship escort, armed reconnaissance, sea-land protection, ocean blockade, and ship attack. Long-range sensing and launch of stand-off weapons is possible for the B-52. Attention is given to the problem of ship identification, in order to avoid attacks on friendly craft.
There has been a proposal to retrofit the older B-52s due for retirement for use in aerial mining and sea surveillance, but nothing came of it.
...
B-52 ROLES IN SPACE CONTROL
Harold S. Shoemaker, Project SCOOP - Vandenberg AFB. Edward Teller, Lawrence Livermore Laboratory.
A recommendation is presented that B-52s be equipped with Minuteman-Agena missiles; the latter spacecraft to be committed to space arenas to compensate for the present inability to patrol the entire Earth sphere of influence. Strategic spaceborne reconnaissance from low orbits to deep space is necessary to enforce the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.
Through air-launch, a US presence in any deep space area would then be possible within 24 hours, rather than days, of any outbreak. Compared to fixed launch bases, time would be gained for a rapid deployment space force to reach the scene.
Each B-52 can carry a pair of Minuteman-Agena boosters and perform missions such as anti-satellite, anti-ballistic and satellite inspection. Attention is given to the problem of satellite inspection, in order to avoid attacks on friendly spacecraft.
There has been a proposal to retrofit the older B-52s due for retirement (B-52B to B-52F) for use in aerial mining and sea surveillance, but nothing came of it. We suggest those planes could be used instead to launch Agena space patrol missions.
Since 1960 the Soviet Union had tolerated the Key Hole orbital spysats: even if they could have shot them down using Istrebitel Sputnikov. In the end they developped their own spysat: the Zenit series.
HIGH TOWN however greatly unnerved the Soviet leadership. Being air-launched and suborbital meant Istrebitel Sputnikov wouldn't work.
Per lack of a clear technological solution, the Soviets used diplomacy that is : the United Nations. Among the five security council members, they would try and manipulate gaullist France against the USA: on spysat matters.
They first revealed how the americans used their spyplanes and spysats against their allies.
Next, they baited France with film readout technology that had been abandonned for their spysats - Baikal - but used by lunar missions: Zond 3, Luna 11 and Luna 12.
They suggested the French should put the imaging system, first on a joint lunar probe called ROSEAU; then on satellites; and eventually, on their VERAS spaceplane. It was an irresistible package that was sealed by the December 9, 1967 franco-soviet space agreement.
HIGH TOWN however greatly unnerved the Soviet leadership. Being air-launched and suborbital meant Istrebitel Sputnikov wouldn't work.
Per lack of a clear technological solution, the Soviets used diplomacy that is : the United Nations. Among the five security council members, they would try and manipulate gaullist France against the USA: on spysat matters.
They first revealed how the americans used their spyplanes and spysats against their allies.
Next, they baited France with film readout technology that had been abandonned for their spysats - Baikal - but used by lunar missions: Zond 3, Luna 11 and Luna 12.
They suggested the French should put the imaging system, first on a joint lunar probe called ROSEAU; then on satellites; and eventually, on their VERAS spaceplane. It was an irresistible package that was sealed by the December 9, 1967 franco-soviet space agreement.
RAF Waddington, Lincolnshire.
1966
Eighty-nine Vulcan B.2 had been built, of which 72 were deployed in nine squadrons. Three squadrons got Blue Steel cruise missiles and the rest, free fall nuclear bombs: old and new. The british had been working on an improved Skybolt W.59 warhead and they carried on even after the missile cancellation, creating the WE.177 tactical nuke which was deployed on a whole lot of different RAF and Royal Navy aircraft.
Of the nine Vulcan squadrons, one got disbanded, the second shifted to Buccaneers and a third one went sniffing atmospheric nuclear tests. The six Vulcan squadrons left were all to convert to WE.177 and tactical nuclear strike. Vulcan-Polaris however changed those plans, notably at RAF Waddington and its four squadrons.
RAF Scampton once concentrated all three Vulcan Blue Steel squadrons; it was decided Waddington would play a similar role for Vulcan-Polaris, with two units. A third one got Polaris-Agena and HIGH TOWN Mk.1. Squadrons 35, 44 and 50 become the RAF space wing.
1966
Eighty-nine Vulcan B.2 had been built, of which 72 were deployed in nine squadrons. Three squadrons got Blue Steel cruise missiles and the rest, free fall nuclear bombs: old and new. The british had been working on an improved Skybolt W.59 warhead and they carried on even after the missile cancellation, creating the WE.177 tactical nuke which was deployed on a whole lot of different RAF and Royal Navy aircraft.
Of the nine Vulcan squadrons, one got disbanded, the second shifted to Buccaneers and a third one went sniffing atmospheric nuclear tests. The six Vulcan squadrons left were all to convert to WE.177 and tactical nuclear strike. Vulcan-Polaris however changed those plans, notably at RAF Waddington and its four squadrons.
RAF Scampton once concentrated all three Vulcan Blue Steel squadrons; it was decided Waddington would play a similar role for Vulcan-Polaris, with two units. A third one got Polaris-Agena and HIGH TOWN Mk.1. Squadrons 35, 44 and 50 become the RAF space wing.
Today I learned that the nuclear alert radar of doom - BMEWS - are so powerful, their signal could be detected as far as 15 lightyears away. Provided aliens had an Arecibo-size listening array (and they did not let it collapse, but that's another story).
Within 15 lightyears of us are 40 stars; of which Wikipedia tells me, 17 have exoplanets, some of them the size of Earth.
Pretty amazing to think the alert radars of our doom (nuclear war) could also help First Contact.
Part of the Drake equation guesses include an hypothesis that advanced civilizations that could travel across space are the same that invent thermonuclear and neutrons bombs. Hence there is a non negligeable probability they commit suicide before first contact. Well, the BMEWS radars are pretty representative of that hypothesis...
Cold war, 2001 and exoplanets : definitively an exciting mix.
Within 15 lightyears of us are 40 stars; of which Wikipedia tells me, 17 have exoplanets, some of them the size of Earth.
Pretty amazing to think the alert radars of our doom (nuclear war) could also help First Contact.
Part of the Drake equation guesses include an hypothesis that advanced civilizations that could travel across space are the same that invent thermonuclear and neutrons bombs. Hence there is a non negligeable probability they commit suicide before first contact. Well, the BMEWS radars are pretty representative of that hypothesis...
Cold war, 2001 and exoplanets : definitively an exciting mix.
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"What political situation ?" ... as long as Floyd could remember, it had been not a "situation" so much as a permanent crisis. Since the 1970s, the world had been dominated by two problems which, ironically, tended to cancel each other out.
...
In a rather cynical coincidence, the alert radars of nuclear war – BMEWS - happened to be planet Earth most detectable signal across space. Ballistic Missile Early Warning System: emitters so powerful, aliens with an Arecibo-like 1000 ft antenna could have detected the radars of nuclear doom as far as 15 lightyears from Earth. That distance encompassed 40 stars, of which 17 were later found to have exoplanets: some of them the size of Earth.
...
Within 20 light-years of the Sun, 131 stars have been found in 94 stellar systems. And among the over 500 known stars and brown dwarfs within 33 lightyears - around 60 have been confirmed to have planetary systems, with 106 exoplanets listed as confirmed.
...
Military radar pulses, such as the U.S. Ballistic Missile Early Warning System, are the most powerful radio sources on Earth. The strongest of them seems to be the 217 MHz space surveillance radar of the U.S. Navy (NAVSPASUR) which is located in Archer City, Texas. Its radar pulses could be detected by stellar civilization with an Arecibo technology to a distance of about 30 light years. It is interesting that the existence of this powerful radar was unknown to Sullivan and Knowles who discovered it with with this experiment from its powerful reflections from the Moon.
...
Besides the TV transmitters, one other signal of interest was definitely detected. The U.S. Navy operates a space surveillance radar in Archer City, Texas which consists of a 3 km north-south row of dipoles. At the time we did not know of the existence of this radar, which in fact is detectable by any interstellar eavesdropper to somewhat greater distances than the BMWS radars - up to 30 lightyears for an Arecibo technology.
...
There before him, a glittering toy no Star-Child could resist, floated the planet Earth with all its peoples.
He had returned in time. Down there on that crowded globe, the alarms would be flashing across the radar screens, the great tracking telescopes would be searching the skies - and history as men knew it would be drawing to a close.
A thousand miles below, he became aware that a slumbering cargo of death had awoken, and was stirring sluggishly in its orbit. The feeble energies it contained were no possible menace to him; but he preferred a cleaner sky. He put forth his will, and the circling megatons flowered in a silent detonation that brought a brief, false dawn to half the sleeping globe.
...
...
In a rather cynical coincidence, the alert radars of nuclear war – BMEWS - happened to be planet Earth most detectable signal across space. Ballistic Missile Early Warning System: emitters so powerful, aliens with an Arecibo-like 1000 ft antenna could have detected the radars of nuclear doom as far as 15 lightyears from Earth. That distance encompassed 40 stars, of which 17 were later found to have exoplanets: some of them the size of Earth.
...
Within 20 light-years of the Sun, 131 stars have been found in 94 stellar systems. And among the over 500 known stars and brown dwarfs within 33 lightyears - around 60 have been confirmed to have planetary systems, with 106 exoplanets listed as confirmed.
...
Military radar pulses, such as the U.S. Ballistic Missile Early Warning System, are the most powerful radio sources on Earth. The strongest of them seems to be the 217 MHz space surveillance radar of the U.S. Navy (NAVSPASUR) which is located in Archer City, Texas. Its radar pulses could be detected by stellar civilization with an Arecibo technology to a distance of about 30 light years. It is interesting that the existence of this powerful radar was unknown to Sullivan and Knowles who discovered it with with this experiment from its powerful reflections from the Moon.
...
Besides the TV transmitters, one other signal of interest was definitely detected. The U.S. Navy operates a space surveillance radar in Archer City, Texas which consists of a 3 km north-south row of dipoles. At the time we did not know of the existence of this radar, which in fact is detectable by any interstellar eavesdropper to somewhat greater distances than the BMWS radars - up to 30 lightyears for an Arecibo technology.
...
There before him, a glittering toy no Star-Child could resist, floated the planet Earth with all its peoples.
He had returned in time. Down there on that crowded globe, the alarms would be flashing across the radar screens, the great tracking telescopes would be searching the skies - and history as men knew it would be drawing to a close.
A thousand miles below, he became aware that a slumbering cargo of death had awoken, and was stirring sluggishly in its orbit. The feeble energies it contained were no possible menace to him; but he preferred a cleaner sky. He put forth his will, and the circling megatons flowered in a silent detonation that brought a brief, false dawn to half the sleeping globe.
...
Space station Liberty
1980
"We have modified the Apollo Telescope Mount the clever way. No need anymore to send an astronaut picking the film canisters: we are doing that with the robotic arm from Canada. The canisters are dropped on a platform that rolls into an airlock, where we recover the film. After what: we have a light table here, to examine rolls of film. The most interesting frames can be Polaroid-printed, or we pass the film through a laser scan to produce electronic pictures we beam down to Earth.
"The result ? look at this: a stupendous polaroid picture of Neptune; that 72-inch spaceborne telescope is doing wonders. Of course Hubble with a 94-inch mirror and charge coupled devices will do even better."
1980
"We have modified the Apollo Telescope Mount the clever way. No need anymore to send an astronaut picking the film canisters: we are doing that with the robotic arm from Canada. The canisters are dropped on a platform that rolls into an airlock, where we recover the film. After what: we have a light table here, to examine rolls of film. The most interesting frames can be Polaroid-printed, or we pass the film through a laser scan to produce electronic pictures we beam down to Earth.
"The result ? look at this: a stupendous polaroid picture of Neptune; that 72-inch spaceborne telescope is doing wonders. Of course Hubble with a 94-inch mirror and charge coupled devices will do even better."
Space Station Liberty
The refurbished Apollo Telescope Mount had a MOL 72-inch mirror as its centerpiece, the largest even send to orbit. It was used for solar system observation, with stupendous science results.
The space station crew did direct snapshot photography of Mercury, Venus and Mars. Color discrimination through combining filters and emulsions isolated narrow wavelength bands in the range 0.3 to 0.7 microns, which proved extremely effective in the study of Venus and Mars. High resolution imagery showed surface details and topographic outline of Mercury and Mars. The observation of markings on Mercury was especially important and confirmed radar data that the rotational period was only 59 days.
Low contrast features in the cloud cover of Venus were visible; large scale patterns in the cloud structure were analyzed to determine circulation patterns and polar orientation. The astronauts observed the finely resolved extended crescent of Venus near conjunction.
They achieved improved measurements of the diameters of the planets as well as of their flattening. The diameters, combined with independent mass determinations, lead directly to improved mean densities for the planet; and the flattening measurements were essential to studies of their internal structure.
The Apollo Telescope Mount allowed direct photography of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Of especial interest was a measurement of the apparent diameter of Pluto, whose accepted value of 0.2 arc seconds was somewhat controversial. The observations brought a major surprise: Pluto mass had to be radically revised downwards. So much for the ninth planet explaining Neptune and Uranus orbital anomalies...
The cloud belt system of Jupiter revealed a wealth of detail, as did the famous Red Spot. Jupiter was a very well marked planetary body, with numerous vividly-colored and photometrically well differentiated markings on its globe. Some of these markings appeared to have very rapid proper motions relative to the average motions of the surface associated with diurnal rotation. A fraction of the observed structures was seen to appear or disappear in association with the famous large red spot.
As observed by the Apollo Telescope Mount, satellites of Jupiter clearly showed traces of an atmosphere, and traces of surface markings which permitted the establishment of rotation periods. One of the Galilean satellites appeared to have a higher albedo after an eclipse of the sun by Jupiter. High resolution observations validated the hypothesis that this change in albedo was the result of a snowfall after apparent sunset on the satellite.
Watching Saturn, they discovered important new fine structure in the ring system. The planet presented a fascinating object for astronomical research by direct photography. When Saturn's ring system tilted to include the earth in its plane, the ring, as seen from the earth, appeared progressively thinner until its crossed section almost vanishes. This extreme aspect of the ring had occurred in 1966. Measurements of the actual thickness of these rings provided important clues to the dynamics and stability of the whole ring system. In addition, straight-forward studies of the zonal divisions in the rings contributed to our understanding of the nature of the rings and the mass distribution in the Saturnian system. Titan, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto and Io were seen as resolvable disks: diameter measurements led to improved density and albedo determinations.
Extensive observations of Mars brought fascinating results. Cartographic survey maps of the entire planet were done; the MOL-ATM eventually mapped the entire surface of Mars at about 50 n.mi. resolution - considerably better than ground based systems of 300 n.mi., which were handicapped by the turbidity of the earth's atmosphere.
Blue photographs provided information on the Martian atmosphere; bright and veiled surface features white patches of clouds were sometimes visible, as were extensive and rapidly changing yellowish clouds: presumably dust, which were most conspicuous on photographs taken in the yellow. Red and near infrared photographs provided the best views of the surface, some features exhibiting marked seasonal variations. Polarization measurements, for which photography was not well suited, was made by differential measurement of images taken through successive orientations of a polaroid analyzer, using narrow wavelength bands throughout the spectrum. Time sequence photographs of the surface of Mars in visible light were done at intervals of about 30 minutes.
Venus was observed to show vague dark markings in the cloud structure, especially in the near ultraviolet. The dark markings rotated retrograde with a period of about four years. This remarkable phenomenon was checked by observations which provided reliable high resolution and continuity over several four-day periods. The visibility of these dark markings was maximum when they were near the terminator of the gibbons phase of the planet.
Photography of the nuclear region of a comet, especially if one should happen to approach the vicinity of the earth at a favorable time, was of considerable interest. Candidates were a returning Halley, but also Tempel 2, Encke, Giacobini-Zinner, Tempel-Tuttle, Grigg-Skjellerup and many others.
And finally was the Moon. Increasing evidence of the occurrence of transient active lunar phenomena led to an experiment in which the space station crew examined a preselected region of the lunar surface visually through the primary telescope for signs of such activity; and when an event was noted to be occurring, they photographed the affected region. Many such events were recorded across Oceanus Procellarum, notably in the area of Aristarchus.
The refurbished Apollo Telescope Mount had a MOL 72-inch mirror as its centerpiece, the largest even send to orbit. It was used for solar system observation, with stupendous science results.
The space station crew did direct snapshot photography of Mercury, Venus and Mars. Color discrimination through combining filters and emulsions isolated narrow wavelength bands in the range 0.3 to 0.7 microns, which proved extremely effective in the study of Venus and Mars. High resolution imagery showed surface details and topographic outline of Mercury and Mars. The observation of markings on Mercury was especially important and confirmed radar data that the rotational period was only 59 days.
Low contrast features in the cloud cover of Venus were visible; large scale patterns in the cloud structure were analyzed to determine circulation patterns and polar orientation. The astronauts observed the finely resolved extended crescent of Venus near conjunction.
They achieved improved measurements of the diameters of the planets as well as of their flattening. The diameters, combined with independent mass determinations, lead directly to improved mean densities for the planet; and the flattening measurements were essential to studies of their internal structure.
The Apollo Telescope Mount allowed direct photography of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Of especial interest was a measurement of the apparent diameter of Pluto, whose accepted value of 0.2 arc seconds was somewhat controversial. The observations brought a major surprise: Pluto mass had to be radically revised downwards. So much for the ninth planet explaining Neptune and Uranus orbital anomalies...
The cloud belt system of Jupiter revealed a wealth of detail, as did the famous Red Spot. Jupiter was a very well marked planetary body, with numerous vividly-colored and photometrically well differentiated markings on its globe. Some of these markings appeared to have very rapid proper motions relative to the average motions of the surface associated with diurnal rotation. A fraction of the observed structures was seen to appear or disappear in association with the famous large red spot.
As observed by the Apollo Telescope Mount, satellites of Jupiter clearly showed traces of an atmosphere, and traces of surface markings which permitted the establishment of rotation periods. One of the Galilean satellites appeared to have a higher albedo after an eclipse of the sun by Jupiter. High resolution observations validated the hypothesis that this change in albedo was the result of a snowfall after apparent sunset on the satellite.
Watching Saturn, they discovered important new fine structure in the ring system. The planet presented a fascinating object for astronomical research by direct photography. When Saturn's ring system tilted to include the earth in its plane, the ring, as seen from the earth, appeared progressively thinner until its crossed section almost vanishes. This extreme aspect of the ring had occurred in 1966. Measurements of the actual thickness of these rings provided important clues to the dynamics and stability of the whole ring system. In addition, straight-forward studies of the zonal divisions in the rings contributed to our understanding of the nature of the rings and the mass distribution in the Saturnian system. Titan, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto and Io were seen as resolvable disks: diameter measurements led to improved density and albedo determinations.
Extensive observations of Mars brought fascinating results. Cartographic survey maps of the entire planet were done; the MOL-ATM eventually mapped the entire surface of Mars at about 50 n.mi. resolution - considerably better than ground based systems of 300 n.mi., which were handicapped by the turbidity of the earth's atmosphere.
Blue photographs provided information on the Martian atmosphere; bright and veiled surface features white patches of clouds were sometimes visible, as were extensive and rapidly changing yellowish clouds: presumably dust, which were most conspicuous on photographs taken in the yellow. Red and near infrared photographs provided the best views of the surface, some features exhibiting marked seasonal variations. Polarization measurements, for which photography was not well suited, was made by differential measurement of images taken through successive orientations of a polaroid analyzer, using narrow wavelength bands throughout the spectrum. Time sequence photographs of the surface of Mars in visible light were done at intervals of about 30 minutes.
Venus was observed to show vague dark markings in the cloud structure, especially in the near ultraviolet. The dark markings rotated retrograde with a period of about four years. This remarkable phenomenon was checked by observations which provided reliable high resolution and continuity over several four-day periods. The visibility of these dark markings was maximum when they were near the terminator of the gibbons phase of the planet.
Photography of the nuclear region of a comet, especially if one should happen to approach the vicinity of the earth at a favorable time, was of considerable interest. Candidates were a returning Halley, but also Tempel 2, Encke, Giacobini-Zinner, Tempel-Tuttle, Grigg-Skjellerup and many others.
And finally was the Moon. Increasing evidence of the occurrence of transient active lunar phenomena led to an experiment in which the space station crew examined a preselected region of the lunar surface visually through the primary telescope for signs of such activity; and when an event was noted to be occurring, they photographed the affected region. Many such events were recorded across Oceanus Procellarum, notably in the area of Aristarchus.
Check the picture below. I've compiled possible dates for manned inner solar system exploration in the second half of the 1970's.
There are not many targets, each one with its constraints
-Mars, with launch windows every 26 months
-Venus, with launch windows every 19 months
-The few Near Earth Objects known back then [and among them, those who made close Earth approaches in the 1970's]
End result ? this.
For the record
-Manned Mars landing, Von Braun : -------- launch departure 11/1981, Mars landing 08/1982 return 08/1983
-Manned Mars landing, Stephen Baxter : --- launch departure 03/1985, Mars landing 04/1986 return 11/1986
Addendum: Vanderveen triple planetary flyby technical papers, listed.
There are not many targets, each one with its constraints
-Mars, with launch windows every 26 months
-Venus, with launch windows every 19 months
-The few Near Earth Objects known back then [and among them, those who made close Earth approaches in the 1970's]
End result ? this.
For the record
-Manned Mars landing, Von Braun : -------- launch departure 11/1981, Mars landing 08/1982 return 08/1983
-Manned Mars landing, Stephen Baxter : --- launch departure 03/1985, Mars landing 04/1986 return 11/1986
Addendum: Vanderveen triple planetary flyby technical papers, listed.
Attachments
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Attached are the documents from which I extracted the Near Earth Objects mentionned in the previous post: Geographos, Eros, Toro, Amor. I checked their approaches with the JPL minor objects database.
leovinus2001
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Hi Archibald, you seem to know a thing or two about Eurospace and Delorme. As I just published an article about Eurospace, I wondered what your sources were? So many original documents have been lost. Thanks.
Hmmmm must be from SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers. I did a search campaign a while back, brought some interesting stuff. I'll check my HD.
EDIT : have a look here. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/french-tsto-studies-of-the-60s.4096/page-2#post-844391
Best regards,
EDIT : have a look here. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/french-tsto-studies-of-the-60s.4096/page-2#post-844391
Best regards,
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leovinus2001
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Thank you. These overlap with the materials I have read already. In a way, I wondered whether there was a hidden stash of documents I did not read yet
1984
In WWIII the Soviets are planning to move their mobile missiles – SS-16, SS-20, SS-24, SS-25; on trucks and trains - during gaps in KH-11 coverage. They have become pretty good at that game even in peacetime: to hide their prototypes and other dirty businesses.
Of course we could launch more KH-11s to get a fuller coverage, but those birds are damn expensive, and so are their Titan III launchers. Even if we replaced them with SATAN boosters, it would still be a lose-lose game for us.
That's the reason why AARS / QUARTZ has to be a stealth, subsonic, loitering drone : circling inside the Soviet Union to pin down the mobile missiles; passing the data via Milstar comsats to B-2 bombers coming for the kill. But assuring the survival of a lumbering drone inside USSR dense air defense system is no picnic: the damn QUARTZ will be eye-watering expensive: totally gold-plated. Perhaps an order of magnitude more expensive than the stealth bomber !
That's why we are thinking about an alternative: dronized ROLS rocketplanes with KH-11 optics in their payload bays.
The idea is not new: the original Space Shuttle that died at the hands of Nixon OMB in 1971 was to do a similar job. Of carrying pallets with KH-8, KH-9 and KH-10 optics; at the time the KH-11 had just been approved.
ROLS however will be far more flexible, flying out of many airstrips rather than a fixed pad. We may launch one in suborbital flight, and then convert its trajectory into a stable orbit thanks to a suborbital refueling.
A the beginning of course we will keep pilots in the loop, if only because suborbital manoeuvering is a delicate affair. But imagine if we dronized both tanker and orbiter: we could quickly deploy in space a large number of KH-11 optics to get maximum coverage of USSR... and pin down those nightmarish missiles.
In WWIII the Soviets are planning to move their mobile missiles – SS-16, SS-20, SS-24, SS-25; on trucks and trains - during gaps in KH-11 coverage. They have become pretty good at that game even in peacetime: to hide their prototypes and other dirty businesses.
Of course we could launch more KH-11s to get a fuller coverage, but those birds are damn expensive, and so are their Titan III launchers. Even if we replaced them with SATAN boosters, it would still be a lose-lose game for us.
That's the reason why AARS / QUARTZ has to be a stealth, subsonic, loitering drone : circling inside the Soviet Union to pin down the mobile missiles; passing the data via Milstar comsats to B-2 bombers coming for the kill. But assuring the survival of a lumbering drone inside USSR dense air defense system is no picnic: the damn QUARTZ will be eye-watering expensive: totally gold-plated. Perhaps an order of magnitude more expensive than the stealth bomber !
That's why we are thinking about an alternative: dronized ROLS rocketplanes with KH-11 optics in their payload bays.
The idea is not new: the original Space Shuttle that died at the hands of Nixon OMB in 1971 was to do a similar job. Of carrying pallets with KH-8, KH-9 and KH-10 optics; at the time the KH-11 had just been approved.
ROLS however will be far more flexible, flying out of many airstrips rather than a fixed pad. We may launch one in suborbital flight, and then convert its trajectory into a stable orbit thanks to a suborbital refueling.
A the beginning of course we will keep pilots in the loop, if only because suborbital manoeuvering is a delicate affair. But imagine if we dronized both tanker and orbiter: we could quickly deploy in space a large number of KH-11 optics to get maximum coverage of USSR... and pin down those nightmarish missiles.
Sometimes there is some interesting stuff that comes at the right moment.
In that case - finding Cape Canaveral flight rate boundaries. How many big rocket launches can that corner of Florida endure per year ? For the record NASA highest planned Shuttle flight rates were of 60 per year, that is one every six days. Of course it never materialized but now the issue has returned with a vengeance, because Satarship planned flight rates.
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/5080/1
You bet I'm going to adapt that to my story peculiar "agenda".
In that case - finding Cape Canaveral flight rate boundaries. How many big rocket launches can that corner of Florida endure per year ? For the record NASA highest planned Shuttle flight rates were of 60 per year, that is one every six days. Of course it never materialized but now the issue has returned with a vengeance, because Satarship planned flight rates.
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/5080/1
You bet I'm going to adapt that to my story peculiar "agenda".
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station had gone through many decades, each one with a new development
1950s : Missile row
1960s: Air-launch Agena
1970s: Agena for space station logistics
1980s: SATAN rocket
1990s: In-flight bimese
1950s : Missile row
1960s: Air-launch Agena
1970s: Agena for space station logistics
1980s: SATAN rocket
1990s: In-flight bimese
martinbayer
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We're solidly a quarter century past the last Millennium Nineties. Any more recent fantastical (in-flight bimese - oh my) milestones?
martinbayer
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Glad to read it. The less written, the better.
I don't know what to do with Musk, really. The RLV breakthrough happens long before OTL SpaceX, and in a different way. I may rebrand him Elton Rusk and give him a ridiculous fate or even a ridiculous death (such as: being blown by a rocket engine on a test stand, Nedelin style).
As for Trump... the hero brother Alan Gordon is a traitor that sold his soul to the KGB and created a spy ring in the USA. When he got enough and tried to escape (as D.B Cooper !), the KGB kidnapped him to Moscow in 1972. He will stay there obviously until 1991. Because he is a major asset, the KGB will try using him in Moscow but he will outsmart them, somewhat.
By 1986 he may heard about a certain person in the USA, of high interest to the KGB.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Kompromat-Cultivated-Related-Treachery/dp/0593182537
By the way, just to redeem that awful date (9-11 2001) I have my Moonbase reaching IOC the day before.
I had totally forgotten about this thread.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...6-nasa-usaf-and-the-lew-allen-solution.35533/
Using the Apollo Service Module as a makeshift Saturn IB third stage evenly compensate the Saturn payload loss when launching from The Cape to polar orbit - due to an ascent dogleg, not to dump stages on Cuba and elsewhere in the Caribbean.
Might be of interest for Blue Apollo. When the KH-7 was phased out in 1967 General Electric found they had six of them in storage, some of them incomplete. They pitched NASA a PERCHERON program where the KH-7s would be mated to an Apollo rather than an Agena, and flown in Earth orbit for remote sensing.
Fun fact: an "Apollo with a KH-7 on the nose" is a bit like "a Gemini with a KH-10 in the back" ... also known as MOL.
By the way, another "Apollo with a KH-7 on the nose" existed: Project UPWARD, but around the Moon.
The convergence of the three is pretty funny.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...6-nasa-usaf-and-the-lew-allen-solution.35533/
Using the Apollo Service Module as a makeshift Saturn IB third stage evenly compensate the Saturn payload loss when launching from The Cape to polar orbit - due to an ascent dogleg, not to dump stages on Cuba and elsewhere in the Caribbean.
Might be of interest for Blue Apollo. When the KH-7 was phased out in 1967 General Electric found they had six of them in storage, some of them incomplete. They pitched NASA a PERCHERON program where the KH-7s would be mated to an Apollo rather than an Agena, and flown in Earth orbit for remote sensing.
Fun fact: an "Apollo with a KH-7 on the nose" is a bit like "a Gemini with a KH-10 in the back" ... also known as MOL.
By the way, another "Apollo with a KH-7 on the nose" existed: Project UPWARD, but around the Moon.
The convergence of the three is pretty funny.
Langley Research Center
1981
ROLS design features two short vertical stabilizers in the back rather than one vertical. There are several reasons for the V-tail 'ruddervators'- a word mashup of rudder and elevator. The more forward wing location also enables the V-tails to be very effective in the high angle of attack, hypersonic portion of the entry trajectory. That reduces the amount of reaction control system propellant needed for trim and control of the craft.
...
ROLS design is based on the lessons of the Shuttle and its flyback booster extensive wind tunnel data. A classic delta wing has reasonable lift and a soft transition from high-alpha hypersonic entry to gliding flight. But it is sensitive to center of gravity because of the short moment arm available to the elevons and flap. Plus, the body flap causes so much nose-down trim it can not be used as flaps normally are, to increase lift. Finally the vertical tail is of no use during hypersonic entry because it was in the wake of the body.
So with ROLS the wing was kept as a delta but moved amidships, and a V-tail was added with each surface in the airstream and useful during entry; separated from the wing to give a longer moment arm and much better pitch control. The wings even got conventional flaps, useful now that they were farther forward. ROLS has so much lift its X-37A demonstrator needed a drag chute to drop it from the NASA B-52. Velocity is around 100 knots at touchdown, a very remarquable result.
At the end of the day Max Faget with its straight-wing Shuttles was right on a specific point: moving some weight amidship.
...
"We reviewed countless Shuttle flyback booster designs and finally found a shape – to be tested with a X-plane called X-37A - that is balanced and adaptable to different sizes.
Our rocketplane is a V-tailed delta with stubby wings amidship. We picked a V-tail to clear a path for airbreathing engines atop the rear fuselage; to protect them from the reentry inferno. The turbojets are partially flushed inside the fuselage and fed by a YF-107 -like dorsal intake; with a Tristar-like S-duct leading to an exhaust amid the rocket engines. That way the wings, main undercarriage, jet engines and payload bay all help moving the center of gravity forward.
The undercarriage folds into the wing roots. Heatshield is made of TUFROC lightweight ceramic tiles, with transpiration cooling of hydrogen for the larger rocketplanes.
1981
ROLS design features two short vertical stabilizers in the back rather than one vertical. There are several reasons for the V-tail 'ruddervators'- a word mashup of rudder and elevator. The more forward wing location also enables the V-tails to be very effective in the high angle of attack, hypersonic portion of the entry trajectory. That reduces the amount of reaction control system propellant needed for trim and control of the craft.
...
ROLS design is based on the lessons of the Shuttle and its flyback booster extensive wind tunnel data. A classic delta wing has reasonable lift and a soft transition from high-alpha hypersonic entry to gliding flight. But it is sensitive to center of gravity because of the short moment arm available to the elevons and flap. Plus, the body flap causes so much nose-down trim it can not be used as flaps normally are, to increase lift. Finally the vertical tail is of no use during hypersonic entry because it was in the wake of the body.
So with ROLS the wing was kept as a delta but moved amidships, and a V-tail was added with each surface in the airstream and useful during entry; separated from the wing to give a longer moment arm and much better pitch control. The wings even got conventional flaps, useful now that they were farther forward. ROLS has so much lift its X-37A demonstrator needed a drag chute to drop it from the NASA B-52. Velocity is around 100 knots at touchdown, a very remarquable result.
At the end of the day Max Faget with its straight-wing Shuttles was right on a specific point: moving some weight amidship.
...
"We reviewed countless Shuttle flyback booster designs and finally found a shape – to be tested with a X-plane called X-37A - that is balanced and adaptable to different sizes.
Our rocketplane is a V-tailed delta with stubby wings amidship. We picked a V-tail to clear a path for airbreathing engines atop the rear fuselage; to protect them from the reentry inferno. The turbojets are partially flushed inside the fuselage and fed by a YF-107 -like dorsal intake; with a Tristar-like S-duct leading to an exhaust amid the rocket engines. That way the wings, main undercarriage, jet engines and payload bay all help moving the center of gravity forward.
The undercarriage folds into the wing roots. Heatshield is made of TUFROC lightweight ceramic tiles, with transpiration cooling of hydrogen for the larger rocketplanes.
Livermore nuclear lab, California.
Now out of the Air Force, General Harold Shoemaker had found a new home at Livermore: thanks to his pal Teller.
Shoemaker needed Teller for his own dark intentions; because the nuclear scientist has a real knack for selling wild projects, up to the President himself. Teller had all kind of weird quirks and obviously was deeply enamored with (Livermore !) nuclear technology. To a point which often left Shoemaker baffled. Project PLOWSHARE was Teller playground; a spinoff of Ike Atoms for peace, it explored the development of techniques to use nuclear explosives for peaceful purposes.Things like digging a second Panama canal by detonating nukes after nukes.
And then was Project PACER.
"You see, we have managed to turn fission atomic bombs into fission powerplants: good but not enough. Thermonuclear fusion is far more powerful and efficient but unfortunately, we still have no success turning H-bombs into peaceful powerplants. Tokamak ? Lasers ? Meh. Whatever the hype and money thrown at them, it seems we are fighting a losing battle.
That's why I, Teller, propose a radically different approach to fusion power: let's turn the damn thing on its head. H-bombs are the only fusion devices we master ? All right then, let's use them to generate power. I have a brilliant idea about how to achieve that, inspired by underground nuclear tests. It starts with digging a deep well, with a large cave at the bottom. Fill the cave with water. Dig a lateral shaft and put turbines and dynamo power inside. Next, lower a H-bomb into the cave and into the water; detonate it. Water gets vaporized into steam... and: there you are, it drives the turbines and from there: electricity ! Brute force maybe, but simple and elegant too."
And surely enough Teller was determined to make the crazy scheme happen for real, as part of Project PLOWSHARE. Mercifully he was stopped by a trivial issue: the cost of manufacturing all the H-bombs needed. It was just uneconomical, dooming the concept.
Now out of the Air Force, General Harold Shoemaker had found a new home at Livermore: thanks to his pal Teller.
Shoemaker needed Teller for his own dark intentions; because the nuclear scientist has a real knack for selling wild projects, up to the President himself. Teller had all kind of weird quirks and obviously was deeply enamored with (Livermore !) nuclear technology. To a point which often left Shoemaker baffled. Project PLOWSHARE was Teller playground; a spinoff of Ike Atoms for peace, it explored the development of techniques to use nuclear explosives for peaceful purposes.Things like digging a second Panama canal by detonating nukes after nukes.
And then was Project PACER.
"You see, we have managed to turn fission atomic bombs into fission powerplants: good but not enough. Thermonuclear fusion is far more powerful and efficient but unfortunately, we still have no success turning H-bombs into peaceful powerplants. Tokamak ? Lasers ? Meh. Whatever the hype and money thrown at them, it seems we are fighting a losing battle.
That's why I, Teller, propose a radically different approach to fusion power: let's turn the damn thing on its head. H-bombs are the only fusion devices we master ? All right then, let's use them to generate power. I have a brilliant idea about how to achieve that, inspired by underground nuclear tests. It starts with digging a deep well, with a large cave at the bottom. Fill the cave with water. Dig a lateral shaft and put turbines and dynamo power inside. Next, lower a H-bomb into the cave and into the water; detonate it. Water gets vaporized into steam... and: there you are, it drives the turbines and from there: electricity ! Brute force maybe, but simple and elegant too."
And surely enough Teller was determined to make the crazy scheme happen for real, as part of Project PLOWSHARE. Mercifully he was stopped by a trivial issue: the cost of manufacturing all the H-bombs needed. It was just uneconomical, dooming the concept.
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leovinus2001
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You said
>-Bussard and ASPEN: trying to use ROVER/NERVA for Aerospaceplane
and I would just like to add that there was a similar effort in Europe by Sänger in 1963 to do that on the European spaceplane design. Nuclear 1st and 2nd stages. I need to write up the details which will take a while . In the end, it did not happen but in your alternate reality story, if Sänger had died 10 ten years later then I could have worked.
1975 WILL BE A BUSY YEAR FOR NASA, and the starting point of a very busy decade.
The last Saturn IB and the last Apollo are being readied on the VAB and LC-39B; in July they will fly the joint mission with the soviets. Another Saturn IB stands in alert with CSM-119; it is the rescue vehicle.
On the other side of Cape Canaveral a pair of Titan III is prepared for flight. Those are Big Gemini EFT-1 and EFT-2 unmanned test flights.
Back in 1973 a no-booster, no-Agena Titan IIIB lofted a MOL Gemini-B capsule into a suborbital trajectory for the first test of the hatch-through-the-heatshield, a critical aspect of Big Gemini. EFT-1 and EFT-2 will test the definitive variant of NASA new manned spacecraft.
1976 will see the first manned test, followed by the so-called bicentennial mission in July. The Helios to fly that mission has taken over the name Constitution after the first space station module was rebranded Enterprise: courtesy of lobbying campaign by the Star Trek fanbase.
The next year will start with the Skylab A revisit flight. Big Gemini will fly around the old workshop without any docking. Later in the year 1977 the second joint flight with the Soviets will happen. It will be easier than Apollo-Soyuz since both ships will feature similar atmospheres. The crews will no longer prebreath pure oxygen or atmospheric air when going from one ship to another. Big Gemini cargo hold, which is nearly as big as a Salyut, will be turned into an international space laboratory crammed with experiments borrowed from both Skylab and the future space station. It is planned the two ship will remain linked for a whole week.
1978 will see Enterprise orbited and outfitted during a 28 day mission. Soon it will be augmented with Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount; launched and docked as a modified Helios cargo module.
More one-month missions will follow in rapid succession over 1978 and 1979; until the space station core is orbited by a Saturn V. Called Liberty, Enterprise and its Apollo Telescope will join and dock with it, forming the nucleus of a modular space station. By the dawn of the next decade, module after module similar to Enterprise will launch and dock with Liberty: Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, and Atlantis. They will tap into the stock of Saturn IB left after Apollo-Soyuz; and this will keep LC-39 active well into the next decade, besides a small number of Saturn V launches.
One can visualize space station Liberty as a four blade propeller. Liberty and Enterprise face each others as the 'shaft'; Columbia, Challenger, Discovery and Atlantis are the 'blades'. Another way of seeing it: Liberty has a docking node with five ports: one frontal (Enterprise) and four radials. At the opposite end of Liberty is a single docking ring that may eventually get a sixth module: tentatively called Endeavour.
As for Skylab B, it will never fly in space with the exception of its Apollo Telescope Mount. The dry workshop however will become a ground-based simulator for Enterprise and the others.
The last Saturn IB and the last Apollo are being readied on the VAB and LC-39B; in July they will fly the joint mission with the soviets. Another Saturn IB stands in alert with CSM-119; it is the rescue vehicle.
On the other side of Cape Canaveral a pair of Titan III is prepared for flight. Those are Big Gemini EFT-1 and EFT-2 unmanned test flights.
Back in 1973 a no-booster, no-Agena Titan IIIB lofted a MOL Gemini-B capsule into a suborbital trajectory for the first test of the hatch-through-the-heatshield, a critical aspect of Big Gemini. EFT-1 and EFT-2 will test the definitive variant of NASA new manned spacecraft.
1976 will see the first manned test, followed by the so-called bicentennial mission in July. The Helios to fly that mission has taken over the name Constitution after the first space station module was rebranded Enterprise: courtesy of lobbying campaign by the Star Trek fanbase.
The next year will start with the Skylab A revisit flight. Big Gemini will fly around the old workshop without any docking. Later in the year 1977 the second joint flight with the Soviets will happen. It will be easier than Apollo-Soyuz since both ships will feature similar atmospheres. The crews will no longer prebreath pure oxygen or atmospheric air when going from one ship to another. Big Gemini cargo hold, which is nearly as big as a Salyut, will be turned into an international space laboratory crammed with experiments borrowed from both Skylab and the future space station. It is planned the two ship will remain linked for a whole week.
1978 will see Enterprise orbited and outfitted during a 28 day mission. Soon it will be augmented with Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount; launched and docked as a modified Helios cargo module.
More one-month missions will follow in rapid succession over 1978 and 1979; until the space station core is orbited by a Saturn V. Called Liberty, Enterprise and its Apollo Telescope will join and dock with it, forming the nucleus of a modular space station. By the dawn of the next decade, module after module similar to Enterprise will launch and dock with Liberty: Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, and Atlantis. They will tap into the stock of Saturn IB left after Apollo-Soyuz; and this will keep LC-39 active well into the next decade, besides a small number of Saturn V launches.
One can visualize space station Liberty as a four blade propeller. Liberty and Enterprise face each others as the 'shaft'; Columbia, Challenger, Discovery and Atlantis are the 'blades'. Another way of seeing it: Liberty has a docking node with five ports: one frontal (Enterprise) and four radials. At the opposite end of Liberty is a single docking ring that may eventually get a sixth module: tentatively called Endeavour.
As for Skylab B, it will never fly in space with the exception of its Apollo Telescope Mount. The dry workshop however will become a ground-based simulator for Enterprise and the others.
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A long time ago at AH.com one nice fellow CGI-ed my space station Liberty.
The basic shape is borrowed from Mir but the core is 33 ft and the modules 22 ft : rather than Proton / Shuttle 15 ft tin cans.
(from: David Portree NASA history, Mir hardware heritage - 1995)
The Mir modules after orbital delivery by a Proton drove themselves to Mir and docked to the axial, frontal port (where Big Gemini is docked in the Liberty picture: Soyuz and Progress came and went there for Mir). After what they sprout a "hinge" called a llyapa arm and pivoted themselves by 90 degrees to dock to their definitive place. A very clever way of building a modular space station without any shuttle.
In the case of Liberty the modules will be driven and docked by Agena space tugs.
The basic shape is borrowed from Mir but the core is 33 ft and the modules 22 ft : rather than Proton / Shuttle 15 ft tin cans.
(from: David Portree NASA history, Mir hardware heritage - 1995)
The Mir modules after orbital delivery by a Proton drove themselves to Mir and docked to the axial, frontal port (where Big Gemini is docked in the Liberty picture: Soyuz and Progress came and went there for Mir). After what they sprout a "hinge" called a llyapa arm and pivoted themselves by 90 degrees to dock to their definitive place. A very clever way of building a modular space station without any shuttle.
In the case of Liberty the modules will be driven and docked by Agena space tugs.
1967
"Congress is annoyed that two space station programs are run in parallel: MOL and Apollo Applications. They wanted synergies between the two, or even a fusion. I know a place where cooperation might be very welcome. Key expressions: fecal canister and waste management system. They are technical euphemisms for the word toilet.
There are a lot of vexing issues with that... matter. First: how do you test a zero-gravity toilet under Earth one G ? the answer is called the Vomit Comet. A KC-135 tanker modified to fly parabolas, lasting no more than thirty seconds. So your space toilet, and the unfortunate test subject seating on it, better have to work reactively. If you wanna know, the leading company for space toilets is Fairchild, and a pair of engineers said they made 400 parabolas over a year. At 30 seconds each, that's 200 minutes hence a bit more than three hours. It was worth it, however: their MOL toilet was adopted by NASA for Skylab, and improved variants will fly on the Shuttle or Big Gemini. We also know that the Soviets have managed to cram a toilet inside the Soyuz upper module.
And this leaves Apollo – where shitting is kind of an horror show, inherited from Gemini. Astronauts have to glue a plastic bag to their sorry arses and poo inside the damn thing. After what the shitshow starts. Between removing the bag and closing it plus dropping a germicide, accident happens: floating turds, as per Apollo 10 flight transcripts.
Now back to Fairchild and their 400 parabolas. NASA did the same a few years before the MOL, same plane same place. But Fairchild wasn't involved, as the MOL was deeply classified... yes, that included the crapper. Whatever, the Apollo shit hole was called the fecal canister, and it was dropped from Apollo 7 and beyond: back to the horrible bags.
What all those space toilets, failed or successfull, have in common: a mix of air flow and vacuum to literally suck the shit out of the astronaut and into the toilet. And this is the exact place were Apollo failed while the MOL and Soyuz suceeded.
In turn, that specific side of the space toilet bring us to another, extremely vexing issue: female astronauts pissing in zero gravity. See, male astronauts have it easy: they put their dicks into a condom with an urine hose, and voilà. Females aren't so lucky, and at the end of the day the one and only workable solution is, well, a MOL toilet: air flow and vacuum literally sucking the piss out of the female astronaut.
And this bring us to the Mercury 13, like Molly... Jerrie Cobb. On Mercury, no problem: flights brief enough. Gemini however would have hit a brickwall as far as female astronaut pissing was concerned: no viable solution in sight.
After that, Apollo: NASA would have had, first to make their fecal canister work, and then adapt it to suck female piss on top of shit. Plan B could have been to borrow the MOL toilet, as done eventually for Skylab except a few years before. Maybe NASA and the Air Force could have started a joint space toilet program out of the same zero-G parabolas plane: the infamous KC-135 informally known as the vomit comet, for all too obvious reasons.
"Congress is annoyed that two space station programs are run in parallel: MOL and Apollo Applications. They wanted synergies between the two, or even a fusion. I know a place where cooperation might be very welcome. Key expressions: fecal canister and waste management system. They are technical euphemisms for the word toilet.
There are a lot of vexing issues with that... matter. First: how do you test a zero-gravity toilet under Earth one G ? the answer is called the Vomit Comet. A KC-135 tanker modified to fly parabolas, lasting no more than thirty seconds. So your space toilet, and the unfortunate test subject seating on it, better have to work reactively. If you wanna know, the leading company for space toilets is Fairchild, and a pair of engineers said they made 400 parabolas over a year. At 30 seconds each, that's 200 minutes hence a bit more than three hours. It was worth it, however: their MOL toilet was adopted by NASA for Skylab, and improved variants will fly on the Shuttle or Big Gemini. We also know that the Soviets have managed to cram a toilet inside the Soyuz upper module.
And this leaves Apollo – where shitting is kind of an horror show, inherited from Gemini. Astronauts have to glue a plastic bag to their sorry arses and poo inside the damn thing. After what the shitshow starts. Between removing the bag and closing it plus dropping a germicide, accident happens: floating turds, as per Apollo 10 flight transcripts.
Now back to Fairchild and their 400 parabolas. NASA did the same a few years before the MOL, same plane same place. But Fairchild wasn't involved, as the MOL was deeply classified... yes, that included the crapper. Whatever, the Apollo shit hole was called the fecal canister, and it was dropped from Apollo 7 and beyond: back to the horrible bags.
What all those space toilets, failed or successfull, have in common: a mix of air flow and vacuum to literally suck the shit out of the astronaut and into the toilet. And this is the exact place were Apollo failed while the MOL and Soyuz suceeded.
In turn, that specific side of the space toilet bring us to another, extremely vexing issue: female astronauts pissing in zero gravity. See, male astronauts have it easy: they put their dicks into a condom with an urine hose, and voilà. Females aren't so lucky, and at the end of the day the one and only workable solution is, well, a MOL toilet: air flow and vacuum literally sucking the piss out of the female astronaut.
And this bring us to the Mercury 13, like Molly... Jerrie Cobb. On Mercury, no problem: flights brief enough. Gemini however would have hit a brickwall as far as female astronaut pissing was concerned: no viable solution in sight.
After that, Apollo: NASA would have had, first to make their fecal canister work, and then adapt it to suck female piss on top of shit. Plan B could have been to borrow the MOL toilet, as done eventually for Skylab except a few years before. Maybe NASA and the Air Force could have started a joint space toilet program out of the same zero-G parabolas plane: the infamous KC-135 informally known as the vomit comet, for all too obvious reasons.
Does it sounds like an honest bargain ? NASA and the military obviously hate it but Congress, PSAC and OMB (the President science and budget advisors) don't want two separate space station programs.
And now, just for the fun of it... an ASMP would nicely fit inside Concorde lower baggage compartment. The one just behind the nosewheel. Check their respective dimensions below: it fits !
Fun fact: our dear J.C Carbonel in his fantastic French secret projects book, wisely note one can't dig a bomb bay inside a Concorde belly, for a simple reason: the wing to fuselage structure and fairing gets in the way.
The lower baggage hold however is just ahead of that fairing, and very much an extension of the nosewheel pit in front of it.
So a bomb bay could be carved there, albeit obviously size-limited (see dimensions above). Well, it is still plenty enough for an ASMP.
And this is how you get a Bombcorde for the Force de frappe !
Fun fact: our dear J.C Carbonel in his fantastic French secret projects book, wisely note one can't dig a bomb bay inside a Concorde belly, for a simple reason: the wing to fuselage structure and fairing gets in the way.
The lower baggage hold however is just ahead of that fairing, and very much an extension of the nosewheel pit in front of it.
So a bomb bay could be carved there, albeit obviously size-limited (see dimensions above). Well, it is still plenty enough for an ASMP.
And this is how you get a Bombcorde for the Force de frappe !
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Project SCOOP office
Vandenberg AFB
1970
To Shoemaker delight, the reborn DynaSoar program had grown again. HyperSoar was going stronger than ever.
Phase I : glide tests from a B-52 wing pylon;
Phase IA: powered, supersonic flights with a smallish booster;
Phase IB: hypersonic flights to 3 km/s, using an Agena;
Phase II: STAGE launch vehicle: suborbital reconnaissance up to 7 km/s;
Phase III: orbital missions: film bucket recovery;
Phase IV: testing the Shuttle abort modes: PPA, RTLS, ECAL, TAL, AOA;
Phase V: testing the Shuttle BRM-3A and BRM-3B single orbit missions.
The last one sent the Soviet crazy.
Vandenberg AFB
1970
To Shoemaker delight, the reborn DynaSoar program had grown again. HyperSoar was going stronger than ever.
Phase I : glide tests from a B-52 wing pylon;
Phase IA: powered, supersonic flights with a smallish booster;
Phase IB: hypersonic flights to 3 km/s, using an Agena;
Phase II: STAGE launch vehicle: suborbital reconnaissance up to 7 km/s;
Phase III: orbital missions: film bucket recovery;
Phase IV: testing the Shuttle abort modes: PPA, RTLS, ECAL, TAL, AOA;
Phase V: testing the Shuttle BRM-3A and BRM-3B single orbit missions.
The last one sent the Soviet crazy.
And myself, down a new rabbit hole LMAO.
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3873/1https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3876/1https://thehighfrontier.blog/2015/1...-air-force-influenced-the-sts-design-process/https://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum30/HTML/001340.htmlhttps://nplus1.ru/blog/2019/12/16/nuclear-shuttle
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3873/1https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3876/1https://thehighfrontier.blog/2015/1...-air-force-influenced-the-sts-design-process/https://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum30/HTML/001340.htmlhttps://nplus1.ru/blog/2019/12/16/nuclear-shuttle
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