Chinese Stealth bomber program - XAC H-X (H-20)

[Tomboy]

The Chinese Area 51 is also building new massive hangars which are 80m wide and 40m in length.

I think H20/30 could be around 58x37m. We can expect the first flight in few months if not weeks.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/chinas-area-51-is-undergoing-a-massive-expansion

These could also be for Y-XX superheavy airlifter also from Xi'an. Credible rumors claims it is quite close to first flight in the oncoming years, such aircraft would have a wingspan of 70-75m which is just large enough to fit into these hangars.

 

[Rumil]

These could also be for Y-XX superheavy airlifter also from Xi'an. Credible rumors claims it is quite close to first flight in the oncoming years, such aircraft would have a wingspan of 70-75m which is just large enough to fit into these hangars.

How exactly will a C5 like plane whose length is almost certainly >70m (C5 has 75m) fit in a 40m hangar ?

And I am not really sure If a big cargo plane really needs some "secret testing". You would expect something like KJ30 AWACS to be there but no its flying every other week in XAC.

These hangars are very similar to Diego Garcia hangars (78m x 37m) used for B2.

 

[Deino]

Same here. I have been waiting ever since Gen. Ma announced China was developing a new generation of long-range bombers, so almost a decade now.


But the rumours are strong this time, 1x flying prototype is already there, 1x static airframe was also delivered around May/June and a third is being manufactured. So we are certainly close, some even claim it will fly before Xi visits USA but unlikely in my opinion. 1/10 and 26/12 maiden flight make more sense to me.

Interesting, that - as you and others said - after years of waiting finally the „plot thickens“ and the rumours become more and concrete! However may I ask what you mean with „1x flying prototype is already there“? There in the meaning of already at Lop Nur or just „available aka ready? Since I expect the prototype to be build at XAC and at least by my understanding Lop Nur lacks any manufacturing plants, I find it highly unlikely, that a prototype would already be there!

Otherwise, shifting testing of these high-secret assets like the J-36, J-XDS and other fighter type CCAs to a new site away from Yanliang makes perfect sense.

 

[Rumil]

There isn the meaning of at Lop Nur or just „available aka ready? Since I expect the prototype to be build at XAC and at least by my understanding Lop Nur lacks any manufacturing plants, I find it highly unlikely, that a prototype would already be there!

How could the prototype be at this mysterious base when the hangars are still in construction ?

The thread is for H20/30 so obviously I meant XAC.

 

[tico]

New rumors suggest there is more than one variant of the so‑called H‑20. We might see two manned strategic bombers of different sizes unveiled one after another within the next two years. And the GJ‑X has nothing to do with the H‑20，it is part of the 6th gen fighter system.

 

[lancer21]

A VLO subsonic and a supersonic VLO bomber? China has two 6th gen fighters no doubt complementing eachother, so they might want the same approach for their new generation bomber program.

 

[FighterJock]

Makes perfect sense to me lancer21. Whle some would argue that having two bombers would be overkill I would think that such bombers would be used for different missions and would give PLAAF Generals options on which to use on which threats.

 

[Ainen]

I somewhat wonder what a supersonic variant stuck between J-36 and H-20 would add to the mix be honest.

 

[FighterJock]

I would think that a supersonic H-20 bomber would be the large partner of the mix with the subsonic H-20 being the smaller variant.

 

[Ainen]

I would think that a supersonic H-20 bomber would be the large partner of the mix with the subsonic H-20 being the smaller variant.

Line up from 1(VTOL) to 6(heavy supersonic) ws-15 derivatives?
While glorious, I frankly struggle to see a point.

Unless the idea is to literally do interdiction/raiding somewhere between Japan and CONUS.

 

[tico]

I believe both of them will be subsonic. As the same rumours indicate, the H‑20 has received excessive external attention disproportionate to its practical role, which once again hints that it does not actually enjoy high priority within the PLA system.

 

[lancer21]

I imagine that perhaps PLAAF requires a more or less straight replacement for the H-6 for theater operations in addition for the intercontinental ranged H-20. That medium bomber could be supersonic, since range and VLO requirements would not be so stringent. Didn't the americans looked at supersonic options in the lead-up to the B-21 program?

 

[Josh_TN]

I would think that a supersonic H-20 bomber would be the large partner of the mix with the subsonic H-20 being the smaller variant.

Seems unlikely to me. What does supersonic performance actually buy for the penetration mission, when just getting to the desired range is already problematic? Flying fast is not really much of defense in this day and age, at least not unless it can be sustained for long periods of time.

 

[Josh_TN]

Makes perfect sense to me lancer21. Whle some would argue that having two bombers would be overkill I would think that such bombers would be used for different missions and would give PLAAF Generals options on which to use on which threats.

Resources are not infinite and the technology involved in producing something both supersonic and VLO at the scale of a strategic bomber is daunting.

 

[opkilo]

A VLO subsonic and a supersonic VLO bomber? China has two 6th gen fighters no doubt complementing eachother, so they might want the same approach for their new generation bomber program.

A supersonic and VLO bomber, inviting early IR detection/cueing.

 

[lancer21]

If supersonic is so bad for stealth, why all the 5th and 6th gen fighters are supersonic and (most) supercruising? Conversely, if the supersonic speed makes them so easily visible why did they bothered with complex and intricate faceting in the first place?

 

[tico]

The "stealth H‑6/8" hinted at by multiple accounts last year is probably the bomber slated for large‑scale service deployment. Compared with a flying‑wing design, it will likely adopt a layout closer to a conventional bomber. The "H‑8" may suggest a four‑engine configuration, and I expect it to be a very interesting platform.

The other aircraft is presumably the rumoured large flying‑wing bomber whose internal bomb bay is big enough to hold the JL‑1 missile. It has limited practical combat value and exists mainly for nuclear deterrence against the continental United States. It was never meant to be built in large numbers from the very beginning, and this large flying‑wing will be revealed at an earlier date.

 

[Nx4eu]

The "stealth H‑6/8" hinted at by multiple accounts last year is probably the bomber slated for large‑scale service deployment. Compared with a flying‑wing design, it will likely adopt a layout closer to a conventional bomber. The "H‑8" may suggest a four‑engine configuration, and I expect it to be a very interesting platform.

The other aircraft is presumably the rumoured large flying‑wing bomber whose internal bomb bay is big enough to hold the JL‑1 missile. It has limited practical combat value and exists mainly for nuclear deterrence against the continental United States. It was never meant to be built in large numbers from the very beginning, and this large flying‑wing will be revealed at an earlier date.

Can you give any background information or a source for these revelations?

 

[tico]

Can you give any background information or a source for these revelations?

https://b23.tv/4D5E6mm

This is a collection of rumours circulating last year. With the recent rumor that there is more than one variant of the H‑20, their vague and seemingly contradictory statements from the past now make sense. This multi‑platform news also lines up with hints released on official WeChat channels last year.

 

[Josh_TN]

If supersonic is so bad for stealth, why all the 5th and 6th gen fighters are supersonic and (most) supercruising? Conversely, if the supersonic speed makes them so easily visible why did they bothered with complex and intricate faceting in the first place?

The requirements for a fighter platform are very different than for a bomber. The fighter is expected to be fast and maneuverable, even though both these things compromise stealth. That is, the fighter is expected to operate in an unstealthy mode by default. Supercruise in a straight line is probably moderately low signature, but I expect it still requires higher airframe temperatures, higher exhaust temperatures, and more control surface movement for stability. It also tends to require an engine with a lower bypass and lower subsonic efficiency, so supercruise likely reduces endurance (definitely does in F-22 which has very thirsty F-119). None of this scales up well to a strategic bomber, especially if you want all aspect stealth.

It should be noted there are all of like three 5th gen aircraft capable of supercruise and about five super sonic bombers that I can think of that have *ever* been fielded. Maybe J-36 will achieve something like a super cruising light bomber, but I suspect those platforms are already very expensive and scaling to something larger probably approaches B-21/H-20 prices.

I think realistically if you want to fly past the second island chain with no refueling east of Taiwan you are going to have to stay subsonic.

 

[Sferrin]

Is it just me or is this thread starting to read like a child's Christmas list?

 

[Scott Kenny]

If supersonic is so bad for stealth, why all the 5th and 6th gen fighters are supersonic and (most) supercruising? Conversely, if the supersonic speed makes them so easily visible why did they bothered with complex and intricate faceting in the first place?

First, because the fighters were all specced 10-30 years ago and the thermal sensors were not that good at the time.

And second because the fighters need to get somewhere in a hurry as an operational fact.

 

[NMaude]

And second because the fighters need to get somewhere in a hurry as an operational fact.

I do believe that there have been several combat missions in the last few years with F-22s where their ability to super-cruise was a game-changer (I can't think off of the top of my head where they except it was in the Middle-East).

 

[Deino]

The "stealth H‑6/8" hinted at by multiple accounts last year is probably the bomber slated for large‑scale service deployment. Compared with a flying‑wing design, it will likely adopt a layout closer to a conventional bomber. The "H‑8" may suggest a four‑engine configuration, and I expect it to be a very interesting platform.

The other aircraft is presumably the rumoured large flying‑wing bomber whose internal bomb bay is big enough to hold the JL‑1 missile. It has limited practical combat value and exists mainly for nuclear deterrence against the continental United States. It was never meant to be built in large numbers from the very beginning, and this large flying‑wing will be revealed at an earlier date.

Honestly, but I rate these H-8 claims as an additional bomber besides the H-20 as nonsense as long as it is not explained who the source is!

 

[lancer21]

The "stealth H‑6/8" hinted at by multiple accounts last year is probably the bomber slated for large‑scale service deployment. Compared with a flying‑wing design, it will likely adopt a layout closer to a conventional bomber. The "H‑8" may suggest a four‑engine configuration, and I expect it to be a very interesting platform.

The other aircraft is presumably the rumoured large flying‑wing bomber whose internal bomb bay is big enough to hold the JL‑1 missile. It has limited practical combat value and exists mainly for nuclear deterrence against the continental United States. It was never meant to be built in large numbers from the very beginning, and this large flying‑wing will be revealed at an earlier date.

How would a stealth H-6/8 look like, has there been any hinting sketches released or did any of the CGI artists drew anything like that recently?

And to expand a bit why i theorize the regional bomber at least could be supersonic, i imagine it as a modern day LO Tu-22M equivalent (size and weight, not design of course, the design i imagine it will vaguely conform to current 6th gen fighters, and/or various LRS/NGB supersonic configurations), but then if the rumours about a stealth H-6/8 are true which seemingly suggest subsonic then it will not be supersonic.

 

[lancer21]

Is it just me or is this thread starting to read like a child's Christmas list?

China's demonstrated achievements to date are enough to satisfy even the most demanding "christmas list, nuclear carriers and other advanced warships, next generation nuclear subs, 6th gen fighters, UADFs, unmatched GJ/WZ-X ISR/strike drones, just to name a few. I just hope Santa Xi will deliver on H-20 soon too.

 

[Ainen]

If supersonic is so bad for stealth, why all the 5th and 6th gen fighters are supersonic and (most) supercruising? Conversely, if the supersonic speed makes them so easily visible why did they bothered with complex and intricate faceting in the first place?

Fighter has fighter role; if a fighter can't force an engagement, it is no fighter.

 

[Deino]

How could the prototype be at this mysterious base when the hangars are still in construction ?

The thread is for H20/30 so obviously I meant XAC.

It was not meant as an offence, but just as a question to be sure in terms of no language related misunderstanding since the German „there“ aka „dort“ could mean both.

 

[Tomboy]

The "stealth H‑6/8" hinted at by multiple accounts last year is probably the bomber slated for large‑scale service deployment. Compared with a flying‑wing design, it will likely adopt a layout closer to a conventional bomber. The "H‑8" may suggest a four‑engine configuration, and I expect it to be a very interesting platform.

The other aircraft is presumably the rumoured large flying‑wing bomber whose internal bomb bay is big enough to hold the JL‑1 missile. It has limited practical combat value and exists mainly for nuclear deterrence against the continental United States. It was never meant to be built in large numbers from the very beginning, and this large flying‑wing will be revealed at an earlier date.

This is a completely bogus rumor spread by fan boys and alike. The real rumor from credible folks was simply there maybe a B-52J equivalent sometime in the medium future and no, H-20 is NOT carrying the JL-1 internally.

 

[Rumil]

It was not meant as an offence, but just as a question to be sure in terms of no language related misunderstanding since the German „there“ aka „dort“ could mean both.

My apologies if you found the tone of reply harsh.

This is a completely bogus rumor spread by fan boys and alike. The real rumor from credible folks was simply there maybe a B-52J equivalent sometime in the medium future and no, H-20 is NOT carrying the JL-1 internally.

This is the correct version of "two bombers" rumour. My suggestion is to actively ignore those spreading "dual engine and quad engine Flying wing bombers" rumour. It started from unreliable handles so there is no need to even consider it.

H-20 is NOT carrying the JL-1 internally.

I would have agreed before the TWZ article given some credible people said this but the new hangars suggest H20 could be 30-36m in length i.e the bomb bay should be around 14-16m (extrapolating from B-21) and If I am not mistaken JL-1 is 13.5m so I would say it's plausible. JL-2 on the other hand is already in development for H20 so I can also see why it may not carry a gigantic MR-ALBM like JL-1 at all. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tomboy]

I would have agreed before the TWZ article given some credible people said this but the new hangars suggest H20 could be 30-36m in length i.e the bomb bay should be around 14-16m (extrapolating from B-21) and If I am not mistaken JL-1 is 13.5m so I would say it's plausible. JL-2 on the other hand is already in development for H20 so I can also see why it may not carry a gigantic MR-ALBM like JL-1 at all. Just my 2 cents.

As you've said yourself the hangars at Garcia is 78x38m in dimension and last time I checked B-2 is nowhere near 30-36m in length. The ones at the Chinese facility is barely any larger and could in theory hold something that large but current credible rumors suggest it to basically be a B-2 sized B-21 which would limit it's length to anywhere 20-25m only.

JL-1 is not only extremely long, it's also extremely wide meaning you'd need a extremely deep bay to fit it inside.

 

[snne]

I somewhat wonder what a supersonic variant stuck between J-36 and H-20 would add to the mix be honest.

(1) You're essentially describing the abandoned JH-XX; (2) not much, given they never went ahead with it despite how many fixed-wing combatant projects they've greenlit... (Though J-36 can take on somewhat similar set of missions too)

It'd have been a great addition to their inventory back in the early 2010s, but there's a reason it got canned/unrealized afterward...

 

[snne]

Excerpts from a patent document on an auxiliary air intake device on "some bombers" (phrase directly from the document). Posted by @一定会对蛙动手 on Weibo. (ACuriousPLAFan/SDF)

 

[Nx4eu]

Well I didn't save the original tender image, which for some reason is now gone from SDF, but this post via 00CuriousObserver, hints at a possible first flight some time January next year.

Translation:

Serial No.: 1
Enterprise Product Code:
Product Name: Prototype Aircraft Flight-Test Support Services
Product Category: Integrated Support / Flight-Test Support Services
Specification Description: Model / Part No.: /
Brand:
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Quantity: 1.0
Unit: Set
Delivery Method: One-Time Delivery
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Delivery Date / Schedule: 2027/01/15
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Required Quantity: 1.0 set
Specification Description: Model / Part No.: /
RFQ Basic Information:
RFQ Name: Prototype Aircraft Flight-Test Support Services
Purchasing Entity: Xi’an Aircraft Design and Research Institute, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC)
RFQ Contact: Yang Yuxin
Supplier Requirements: Business License, Qualification Certificates
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Validity Period of Price Comparison Result: 2027-09-18
Contract / Quotation Deadline: 2026-09-18