Chinese Liaoning Carrier enters service (former Soviet carrier Varyag)

[sferrin]

Doesn't it have arresting gear installed now? Wouldn't it be interesting to see a couple Russian Su-33s operate off it during their joint exercise?

wouldn't that be kinda awkward?

It would certainly cause many sleepless nights in Western capitals. ;D

 

[Moose]

Only among those who don't know any better. A handful of light-load Sukhois flying off the Shi Lang is not keeping the Navy up at night, except maybe the skipper of the SSN that has to follower her around the Pacific.

 

[Rickshaw]

Only among those who don't know any better. A handful of light-load Sukhois flying off the Shi Lang is not keeping the Navy up at night, except maybe the skipper of the SSN that has to follower her around the Pacific.

I rather suspect though, it is causing sleepless nights in Manila, Hanoi, Taipei, Jakarta, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore and other nations in the region.

 

[sferrin]

Only among those who don't know any better. A handful of light-load Sukhois flying off the Shi Lang is not keeping the Navy up at night, except maybe the skipper of the SSN that has to follower her around the Pacific.

Actually the ones who "know better" might look a bit beyond a few Russian planes flying off a Chinese carrier and see the larger implications.

 

[1st503rdSGT]

Only among those who don't know any better. A handful of light-load Sukhois flying off the Shi Lang is not keeping the Navy up at night, except maybe the skipper of the SSN that has to follower her around the Pacific.

Actually the ones who "know better" might look a bit beyond a few Russian planes flying off a Chinese carrier and see the larger implications.

Hey, good to see ya; my first post over here.

Anyways, I agree with Moose that the Shi Lang isn't the huge threat that some of the less-informed seem to think. The PLAN probably restored it mostly for training in the naval TACAIR skill-set because (as I'm sure has already been mentioned) STOBAR carriers have a hard time launching the fully loaded aircraft required for A2G strike missions. That said, it's still going to be a fully operational warship as the Chinese have apparently put a great deal of effort into upgrading its defensive systems. In the USN, the surface combatants in a carrier task-force are mostly there to protect the carrier; in the Soviet Navy (for which the Shi Lang was built) it's the other way around, with the carrier providing cover for the surface combatants. In any case, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over the PLAN's power-projection ambitions until I see if their upcoming new-built carriers have catapults installed instead of a ski-jump.

 

[sferrin]

Only among those who don't know any better. A handful of light-load Sukhois flying off the Shi Lang is not keeping the Navy up at night, except maybe the skipper of the SSN that has to follower her around the Pacific.

Actually the ones who "know better" might look a bit beyond a few Russian planes flying off a Chinese carrier and see the larger implications.

Hey, good to see ya; my first post over here.

Anyways, I agree with Moose that the Shi Lang isn't the huge threat that some of the less-informed seem to think. The PLAN probably restored it mostly for training in the naval TACAIR skill-set because (as I'm sure has already been mentioned) STOBAR carriers have a hard time launching the fully loaded aircraft required for A2G strike missions. That said, it's still going to be a fully operational warship as the Chinese have apparently put a great deal of effort into upgrading its defensive systems. In the USN, the surface combatants in a carrier task-force are mostly there to protect the carrier; in the Soviet Navy (for which the Shi Lang was built) it's the other way around, with the carrier providing cover for the surface combatants. In any case, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over the PLAN's power-projection ambitions until I see if their upcoming new-built carriers have catapults installed instead of a ski-jump.

I was thinking more along the lines of, "if Russia and China are planning on cross-decking that could imply a nastier situation that we'd thought". Right now the relationship doesn't seem to tight. I wouldn't want to see it get closer.

 

[1st503rdSGT]

Only among those who don't know any better. A handful of light-load Sukhois flying off the Shi Lang is not keeping the Navy up at night, except maybe the skipper of the SSN that has to follower her around the Pacific.

Actually the ones who "know better" might look a bit beyond a few Russian planes flying off a Chinese carrier and see the larger implications.

Hey, good to see ya; my first post over here.

Anyways, I agree with Moose that the Shi Lang isn't the huge threat that some of the less-informed seem to think. The PLAN probably restored it mostly for training in the naval TACAIR skill-set because (as I'm sure has already been mentioned) STOBAR carriers have a hard time launching the fully loaded aircraft required for A2G strike missions. That said, it's still going to be a fully operational warship as the Chinese have apparently put a great deal of effort into upgrading its defensive systems. In the USN, the surface combatants in a carrier task-force are mostly there to protect the carrier; in the Soviet Navy (for which the Shi Lang was built) it's the other way around, with the carrier providing cover for the surface combatants. In any case, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over the PLAN's power-projection ambitions until I see if their upcoming new-built carriers have catapults installed instead of a ski-jump.

I was thinking more along the lines of, "if Russia and China are planning on cross-decking that could imply a nastier situation that we'd thought". Right now the relationship doesn't seem to tight. I wouldn't want to see it get closer.

I doubt the Russians and Chinese are going to do any cross-decking in the operational sense (wouldn't want Russia's old-a$$ Su-33s trying to land on my new carrier deck).

 

[Deino]

A minor update ... she left port again for her 7. cruise !

 

[Gridlock]

World's largest craps table?

 

[Deino]

long, long ago ...

http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_203_15852.html#p=1

Deino

 

[Grey Havoc]

Apparently her new name will be the Liaoning.

 

[Deino]

Yeppp ... besides that Varyag has been numbered "16" and repainted again .... and it seems to be official:

China to name its first aircraft carrier 'Liaoning'

China will name its first aircraft carrier "Liaoning" in honor of the province where it was retrofitted, the Southern Metropolitan Daily reported, citing an authoritative source.

The paper confirmed that officials decided to name the carrier to commend the province where it was renovated and repaired, thus Liaoning.

The carrier, often referred to by its original name Varyag, is a retired Soviet-era vessel that China bought from Ukraine in the late 1990s. The carrier was later harbored in Dalian, Liaoning Province, where it was retrofitted.

The vessel began sea trails in August 2011 and on September 3 received the side designation "16," prompting speculation that the vessel had completed basic trails and would soon be commissioned.

The carrier's name has been a topic of interest for some time, and many netizens opined that it was likely to be named after Shi Lang, a well-known general during the Qing Dynasty, or the former leader Mao Zedong, or even the capital city of Beijing.

However, according to Chinese naval designation regulations, vessels can only be named after provinces, cities, counties, mountains or lakes, and not people.

China will officially announce the name of the vessel after it has been commissioned.

http://china.org.cn/china/2012-09/10/content_26481340.htm

Deino

 

[Deino]

"16" on deck too .. and hand-over soon...

 

[Deino]

The PLN hast just introduced its first aircrfat carrier named Liaoning numbered 16 ....

This just in:

【环球网综合报道】2012年9月23日下午16时许，中国第一艘航母平台16号舰在大连举行交船仪式，1 6号舰与相邻停泊的88号舰全部挂满旗。16点40分，16号舰舰桥桅杆升起五星红旗，舰首升起八一军旗， 舰尾升起海军旗，17点20分，交船仪式完成。16号舰不日将驶出大连港，前往海军航母驻泊锚地，在航母驻 泊锚地，将举行16号舰入役仪式。

Around 4 o'clock P.M. today, China's first carrier platform was handed over to the Navy....apparently PLAN Cmdr Wu Shengli is the highest ranked official in attendance.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Any particular significance in the hull number '16'?

 

[Deino]

Difficult to say ... some suggest a comparison to the USS CV-16, which acted also neraly their whole life as a training carrier, others suggest a lineage to the founder of the modern Chinse Navy Liu Huaqing. who was borne 1916.

But to admit I'm not sure ...

Deino

 

[chuck4]

This is one heavily armed and excessively equipped "training" carrier.


Now let's see a arrested landing.

 

[sferrin]

This is one heavily armed and excessively equipped "casino".

 

[Deino]

Two images from today ...

 

[Sea Skimmer]

Given how much water is going over the side in those pictures I wonder if some kind of damage control test was being conducted at dockside.

 

[1st503rdSGT]

Maybe the flight-deck was leaking.

 

[Deino]

... and what about these tiny littly drops of water, which sometimes fall out of the sky ??? .. it's called rain ! ;D

 

[kaiserbill]

What are the major differences, if any, between this and the Kuznetsov?

I'm talking about the stuff we can see.

Anybody want to give it a go?

 

[mz]

... and what about these tiny littly drops of water, which sometimes fall out of the sky ??? .. it's called rain ! ;D

Some time ago I skimmed many pages in this topic and in photos it seemed that it was always pumping out some water. Is it leaking or is it just cooling water or what?

 

[Sea Skimmer]

Likely a combination of leaks from the shaft seals, which can be unavoidable on many designs even when stationary, and cooling equipment. Just about any warship is constantly cycling at least some cooling electrical equipment and random bits of bilge water from people cleaning and other gray water use, but the outlets may all be under the waterline so you don't see it on all ships. Sixteen different spots dumping water though is not remotely normal, it suggest to me they are testing the peak capacity of the bilge pumps or fire mains throughout the ship, normally those two systems are interconnected anyway and have discharges at multiple levels. Its a trade off of pumping height vs pressure resistance if the ships draft increases from flooding damage.

 

[fightingirish]

J-15 approaching the Liaoning
http://alert5.com/2012/10/12/photo-j-15-on-low-approach-over-liaoning/

 

[Deino]

Even if several touch and go's were confirmed during the last cruises, reportedly yesterday the first arrested landing and later take-off of two J-15 prototypes (#552 & #553) took place yesterday. The first pilot to land on a CHinese aircraft carrier was reportedly Dai Mingmeng.

All images here: http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2012-11/25/c_123998037.htm

Deino

 

[Deino]

....

 

[chuck4]

What are the major differences, if any, between this and the Kuznetsov?

I'm talking about the stuff we can see.

Anybody want to give it a go?

Chinese phase array radar, Chinese CIWS and point defense missiles. The recovery system and ILS is still Russian, I believe. They seemed to have followed the original ship design as closely as they can while substituting intended weapons and sensors for Chinese items.


Oh, the boilers and engines are probably Chinese too. The ship didn't come with these.

 

[VH]

It is amazing how they have adopted American Navy carrier procedures right down to the posture of the greenshirts on the launch crew. Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery.

 

[GTX]

It is amazing how they have adopted American Navy carrier procedures right down to the posture of the greenshirts on the launch crew. Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery.

Well if it is proven to work, why not...maybe they are even planning on future cross decking

 

[VH]

Somehow I would find that hard to believe.

 

[GTX]

hence the " " ;D

 

[chuck4]

It is amazing how they have adopted American Navy carrier procedures right down to the posture of the greenshirts on the launch crew. Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery.

Well if it is proven to work, why not...maybe they are even planning on future cross decking

Nobody gets ahead by reinventing wheel. It seems pretty rational for Navy of a traditional land power with no experience at all to not second guess the procedures evolved by another navy that's been doing it for 92 years. It doesn't mean they are yokels with no chance if things really come to a head. It just means they are not joking about catching up.


This brings to mind the last time when a really big traditional land power with no naval tradition choose to directly challenge the dominant naval power of its age. The Romans, having no experience, didn't mind either sincerely flattering the carthaginians they are trying to beat, and built exact copies of Carthaginian warships. Carthaginians no doubt felt totally flattered and made snickering comments.

But the Romans, deploying unexpected tactics to overcome their inexperience and lack of seamanship, defeated the Carthaginians, and seized and then maintained naval supremacy over its own world for the next 900 years.

 

[Deino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l9CDW4tlgOU#!

Deino

 

[Deino]

Oh my good !!! ... may he rest in peace.

Just found at the SDF.... posted by "Lion"

Shenyang SAC general manager die of heart attack onboard Liaoning CV after it successfully conducted its product of J-15 first landing and take off.



They claimed he died without regret. RIP...... You done a good job. Win back the pride of Shenyang SAC as leader of China military aviation from Chengdu!

He died 51 years of age.

Deino

 

[Creative]

Love to see some night landings next!

 

[chuck4]

Love to see some night landings next!

Did the Russians ever manage night flight operations on Varyag's sister shi0p?

 

[kaiserbill]

Love to see some night landings next!

Did the Russians ever manage night flight operations on Varyag's sister shi0p?

There is a video floating around youtube that shows Russian flight operations at night.

 

[chuck4]

The J-15 shows no hint of strengthening of nose gear for a future catapault bar, So i am guessing the rumor that China's first domestic carrier will be CATOBAR is unfounded.