Canadair CL-44 Model Designations

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
1,563
Built and Unbuilt Canadair CL-44 Sub-Type Model Designations

The following list comes primarily from 'Swingtail: the CL-44 story' (Porter, Air-Britain) and 'Canadair: the first 50 years' (Pickler/Milberry, CANAV). Pickler notes six production versions (the CL-44-O conversion, was not counted) "plus 50 other versions, not built".

The list below totals 55 designations with seven production versions (since I have included the Conroy). That leaves us two projects short. Anyone have any info on these missing, unbuilt CL-44 projects?

For example, a CL-44 derivative was submitted for RAF AST 357 (Shackleton replacement). The CL-44 failed to meet transit speed requirements. But what Canadair maritime patrol project was on offer in mid 1963? Was this in someway related to the CL-44G1 proposed to the RAF in August 1961?
 

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
1,563
Canadair CL-44 model designations [built variants are in square brackets]

CL-44 ----- Military Transport ---- Wright R-3350 Type 981 (PD3000) -- 05Jul'54
CL-44-1 --- Military Transport ---- RR Tyne 2 (RTy.ll)
CL-44-1A -- Military Transport ---- Bristol BE.25 Orion
CL-44-1B -- Military Transport ---- Bristol BE.25 Orion
CL-44-2 --- Military Transport ---- RR Tyne 2 (RTy.ll)
CL-44-3 --- Military Transport ---- Bristol BE.25 Orion
CL-44-4 --- Military Transport ---- Bristol BE.25 Orion
CL-44-5 --- Military Transport ---- RR Tyne 10
CL-44-6 --- Military Transport ---- [RCAF/CF CC-106 Yukon, c/n 1-to-13] -- 05Feb'58
CL-44-7 --- Arctic Recce --------- RR Tyne 12 -- Feb'59
CL-44-8 --- Military Transport ---- RR Tyne 12 (Cargo/passenger swingtail) -- 15Jun'59
CL-44-9 --- Military Transport ---- RR Tyne 12 (Army veh carrier swingtail) -- 15Jun'59
CL-44A ---- Military Transport ---- Bristol Proteus -- 20Aug'54
CL-44B ---- Military Transport ---- Bristol BE.25 Orion -- 15May'55
CL-44C ---- Commercial Transport -- Bristol BE.25 Orion (200,000 lbs, later 208,000 lbs)
CL-44D ---- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 -- 05Feb'58
CL-44D-1 -- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 -- 06Feb'58
CL-44D-2 -- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Cargo only, tail-loading) -- 02Feb'59
CL-44D-3 -- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Cargo/passenger) -- 02Feb'59
CL-44D-4 -- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 -- 02Feb'59
CL-44D4-1 - Commercial Transport -- [Seaboard & Western, c/n 14-15, 23, 26, 27, 30, 31, 32]
CL-44D4-2 - Commercial Transport -- [Flying Tigers, cargo only, c/n 16-22, 24-25, 37-38]
CL-44D4-3 - Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Cargo/pax for Flying Tigers) -- 22Apr'59
CL-44D4-4 - Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Cargo transport for Pan Am) -- 13May'59
CL-44D4-5 - Military Transport ------ RR Tyne 12 (Cargo/pax for MATS/USAF) -- 15Jun'59
CL-44D4-6 - Commercial Transport -- [Slick Airways, cargo/pax, c/n 28-29, 33-34]
CL-44D4-7 - Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Long-range cargo for Pan Am) -- 03Jun'60
CL-44D4-8 - Military Transport ------ RR Tyne 12 (Cargo for Cdn DDP) -- 03May'61
-- [Note: CL-44D4-8s c/n 35-36 were built 'on spec' and ended up flying with Loftleider]
CL-44D4-9 - Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Cargo, swingtail) -- 03May'61
CL-44D5-1 - Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 14 (Med-range cargo, 205,000 GTOW) -- 03Jun'60
CL-44D5-2 - Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 14 (Med-range cargo, 210,000 GTOW) -- 06Oct'65
CL-44D6 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR cargo, swing, 225k GTOW) - 20Nov'59
CL-44D7 --- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (LR cargo, swing, 225k GTOW) - 20Nov'59
CL-44D8 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR cargo, swing, 225k GTOW) - 20Nov'59
CL-44D8-2 - Commercial Transport -- [Pax, c/n 39 built for Loftleider, conv. into CL-44J]
CL-44D9 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR cargo, swing, 250k GTOW) - 24Nov'59
CL-44D10 -- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 14 (Mech'd pallet/cont. loading) -- 22Jun'60
CL-44D11 -- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Dom. vers. of D10, 205k GTOW) - 05Dec'60
CL-44D12 -- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (Export vers. 'D10, 205k GTOW) - 05Dec'60
CL-44E ---- Commercial Transport -- Stage 3 Tyne (LR cargo, swing, 225k GTOW) - 12Aug'58
CL-44F ---- Commercial Transport -- RR Tyne 12 (using military CL-44-4 wing) -- 07Nov'58
CL-44G ---- Military Transport ------ RR Tyne 11 (Cargo, swingtail) -- 14Nov'58
CL-44G1 --- Military Transport ------ RR Tyne 12 (Cargo, swingtail for RAF) -- 11Aug'61
CL-44H ---- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (Long-range cargo, swingtail) - 18Feb'60
CL-44H1 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR swingtail, low-dens cargo) - 24Feb'60
CL-44H2 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR swingtail, med-dens cargo) - 24Feb'60
CL-44H3 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR swingtail, high-dens cargo) - 11Apr'60
CL-44H4 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR swingtail, low-dens cargo) - 11Apr'60
CL-44H5 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR swingtail, low-dens cargo) - 11Apr'60
CL-44H4 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR swingtail) -- 09May'60
CL-44H4 --- Commercial Transport -- Stage 4 Tyne (LR swingtail) -- 04Aug'60
CL-44J ---- Commercial Transport --- [Passenger, stretch conv. of c/n 39 for Loftleider]
CL-44K ---- Commercial Transport --- RR Tyne 12 (LR cargo/pax, 210k GTOW) - 03Sep'65
CL-44L ---- Commercial Transport --- RR Tyne 12 (LR cargo, stretch fuselage) - 21Feb'66
CL-44-O --- Commercial Transport --- [Conroy 'Guppy' conversion of CL-44D4-2 c/n 16]
CL-44W --- Early Warning & Control -- Allison 550 B-1 - 25Nov'58

--------------------------

Conroy Conversion Projects

Conroy 'Monster'/'Skymonster' -- [CL-44-O 'Guppy' conversion of CL-44D4-2 c/n 16]

Conroy 'Colossus' -- enlarged CL-44-O with 25' 6" high x 25' 2" wide fuselage. Swing-nose *
concept art -- http://www.allaboutguppys.com/whatif/colpainta.jpg
cargo specs -- http://www.allaboutguppys.com/whatif/colosa.jpg

Conroy (Unnamed Project) -- CL-44 enlarged with 6 x RR Tynes and B747 nose/cockpit.

* Note: Flight (02 Jan 1975) listed the Conroy Colossus as a large cargo transport project powered by 3 x CF6-50 or 3 x 59,000 lb JT9D-59A. AW&ST 04 Feb 1974 is listed as having a 3-view. If anyone has a copy, this may clear up the confusion.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%200028.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%200037.html ]

--------------------------
 

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
1,563
CC-106 Yukon/CL-44 Development (not really designation stuff but it seems to fit here)

The CL-44 began as a straightforward passenger aircraft derivative of the CL-28 Argus.* By mid-1954, Canadair was already making planning its CL-44 military transport.** This would combine the fuselage of the Britannia 100 with the flying surfaces and Wright R-3350 Type 981 turbo-compound piston engines of the CL-28 Argus (PD3000 / RD-44-100). This was amended to Rolls-Royce Tyne Series 2 turboprops (AIR-19-11) and the longer Britannia 300 fuselage. Another engine change came when the RCAF announced its preference for the more powerful Bristol BE.25 Orion turboprop.

As shown in the list, Canadair also offered a military transport powered by Bristol Proteus turboprops (à la the Britannia). However, when Canada was informed in Feb 1958 of the decision to cancel the Orion, the RCAF turned to the RR Tyne 12.

In 1955-56, Bristol had on-going discussions with Canadair and Convair (both part of General Dynamics) about North American Britannia developments. Eventually, Bristol nudged Canadair out (establishing its own Canadian presence by buying McDonald Bros. Aircraft of Winnipeg). Focus on the "North American Britannia" then shifted to joint production with Convair.***

Canadair's "Canadian Britannia" emerged as the CL-44-6 Yukon military transport and CL-44D4 'Forty-Four' commercial transport. Bristol went on to build the similar Britannia 300 (which retained the Proteus). Ironically, when the Britannia-based Britannic airlifter design was scaled up into the Belfast, it employed the CL-44's empennage, wings, and Tyne engines.

-----------------------

* Canadair had submitted a re-engined, stretched North Star to replace RCAF Lancaster 10MP maritime patrol aircraft. The RCAF preferred Bristol's submission based on their Type 175 Britannia. Ironically, Canadair had been studying an 'Americanized' Britannia for its CL-32 project a year earlier. In Feb 1954, it was announced that Canadair would develop and build the Britannia-based maritime patrol aircraft in Canada.

** Pure speculation but other Canadair projects from 1953 may have CL-44 connections.

- CL-39 was to be a 4 x Wright T49 turboprop airliner. The T49 was to be derated to 6,500 shp for civil use (more than the CL-44-1's Tyne 2 though less than the BE.25's 8,000 shp.

- CL-40 was to be a 4 x BE.25 turboprop airliner. The CL-40 was to carry 68-to-116 pax (far too many for any North Star derivative but close to the Britannia 100's 63-to-92 range).

- There are too few details to comment on the 1953 CL-38 cargo/pax/ambulance project. This may have been based on the similarly R-3350-powered CL-33 maritime patrol project of 1953 (sometimes described as a 'Fat Lancaster' but unrelated to either the CL-28 or the CL-44).

*** The "North American Britannia" came to nothing. Bristol could not meet Howard Hughes' schedule for Britannia 320s and the TWA order lapsed. The follow-on BE.25-powered Bristol Type 187 was to be built simultaneously at Filton and San Diego. That never happened but it is possible that this venture unintentionally solved Canadair's CL-44-6 FAA certification woes. As part of those "North American Britannia" plans, might Convair have already begun work on adapting their larger, less frame-y CV-880/-990 glazing to the Britannia cockpit?

The BE.25 Orion was also to be licence-built in the US. Does anyone know for sure who held that licence? Wright would be logical (à la Olympus, Sapphire, etc.) but a US-built Orion would compete directly with Wright's planned, J65-based T49 single-shaft turboprop engine.
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
253
Re: Canadair CL-44 & its Rolls-Royce Tyne engines installation......

Dear Boys and Girls, please, can anyone supply me with a copy or scan of the Rolls-Royce Tyne engine installation of the CL-44 with dimensions? I have to be able to prove definitively (and urgently) that the Tyne engine had a longer and different cowling than the Bristol Britannia's Proteus engine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
1,563
Terry: nothing with the dimension details you need. For others, the Flight cutaway drawings may give the general idea:

Britannia
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%200881.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1958/1958-1-%20-%200114.html

CL-44/CC-106
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1958/1958-1-%20-%200906.html

CL-44D-4
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1959/1959%20-%203067.html

CP-107 Argus Mk1 (just for completeness)
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1957/1957%20-%201456.html
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
253
Apophenia said:
Terry: nothing with the dimension details you need. For others, the Flight cutaway drawings may give the general idea:

Thank you Apophenia, much appreciated; but doubt it will convince a Frenchman that the engine cowling of the Canadair CL-44's Rolls-Royce Tyne engine is different to and longer than the engine cowling of a Bristol Britannia's Bristol Proteus engine :(

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,221
Reaction score
855
Caravellarella said:
Thank you Apophenia, much appreciated; but doubt it will convince a Frenchman that the engine cowling of the Canadair CL-44's Rolls-Royce Tyne engine is different to and longer than the engine cowling of a Bristol Britannia's Bristol Proteus engine :(

Didn't get the bit about the Frenchman... ???
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
253
Stargazer2006 said:
Caravellarella said:
Thank you Apophenia, much appreciated; but doubt it will convince a Frenchman that the engine cowling of the Canadair CL-44's Rolls-Royce Tyne engine is different to and longer than the engine cowling of a Bristol Britannia's Bristol Proteus engine :(

Didn't get the bit about the Frenchman... ???

Not you Stéphane, another Frenchman ;D......
 

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
1,563
Terry: you're right, there's not much detail in those images. Certainly not enough to win an argument!

You might try turning the table and ask how these hypothetically identical cowlings would accommodate engines of different sizes? Longer engine mounts would shift the lighter Tyne forward to make up the 'missing' 110mm of length. Rather harder for your friend to explain how those clever chaps at Rolls-Royce squeezed an engine with 400mm more diameter into that Bristol cowling ;D
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
253
Apophenia said:
Terry: you're right, there's not much detail in those images. Certainly not enough to win an argument!

You might try turning the table and ask how these hypothetically identical cowlings would accommodate engines of different sizes? Longer engine mounts would shift the lighter Tyne forward to make up the 'missing' 110mm of length. Rather harder for your friend to explain how those clever chaps at Rolls-Royce squeezed an engine with 400mm more diameter into that Bristol cowling ;D

My friend is correct because he is French; I can scarcely contain my indifference ::)
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,221
Reaction score
855
Caravellarella said:
My friend is correct because he is French; I can scarcely contain my indifference ::)

Going the usual Francophobic again, Terry? ;D

Strictly off-topic: I've always been amazed at how much time the British and their media spend in derogatory depiction of the French... France used to be a little like that about the English until the 1960s, and we probably still get the occasional anti-British joke, but it seems there can be no good day in "ye olde perfidious Albion" without some frog bashing of some kind... :'(
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
253
Stargazer2006 said:
Caravellarella said:
My friend is correct because he is French; I can scarcely contain my indifference ::)

Going the usual Francophobic again, Terry? ;D

Strictly off-topic: I've always been amazed at how much time the British and their media spend in derogatory depiction of the French... France used to be a little like that about the English until the 1960s, and we probably still get the occasional anti-British joke, but it seems there can be no good day in "ye olde perfidious Albion" without some frog bashing of some kind... :'(

Absolutely not Stéphane, I'm a definite Francophile, but I know I can't change my friend's mind about this as he is French ::)
 

Lotus-14

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Re: Canadair CL-44 Model Designations

To the fellow, "Caravellarella", with the "44" nacelle question.
The CL-44 has longer nacelles, and the shape is much different than the Britannia.
If you look at the Britannia 300 series, and compare it to the CL-44 you will see the "44" fuselage is longer forward of the wing, even with the Yukon CC-106 version. There is a photo on the web of a CL-44 and Britannia in line from the rear, and you can see the difference in shape; particularly in the area of the exhaust. the "44" has a much rounder shape to the exhaust, and the nacelle appears to sit higher on the wing, but that could be an illusion, as I would think they would have kept the thrust line close to the same.
I have a drawing, not a very large scale, but it has the station numbers for the CL-44D, with some information on the nacelles. Contact me off line if you want a copy.
 

Similar threads

Top