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Bréguet 1120 Sirocco: Mach 2.2 Naval Fighter Proposal from 1956-57

TinWing

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Br 1120 Sirocco

Length: 14.2 meters
Span: 9.0 meters
Height: 4.4 meters
Wing Area: 27m2
Engine: ATAR 9
MTOW: 8,400 tonnes (unclear if this includes external stores?)

Source: Port Avions Francais, by F. Dousset. Paris, 1978.
 

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Archibald

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Your thread is very interested, I was searching the Breguet competitors and now I knwo they were navalized Mirage III and Durandal. Maybe these two could never been navalised because of their high landing speed and AoA (delta wing) at landing...
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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5180kg empty
8400kg normal TOW
11900kg MTOW

Engine thrust: 7000kg with afterburner

Source: Jean Cuny, Avions Breguet
 

Archibald

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Aparently the Br.121, (Jaguar ancestor) was an enlarged Breguet 1100 (Ie the twin engine version with Adours instead of Gabizo)
 

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Was there any estimate on how small a carrier the Breguet 1120 could operate from? Obviously it would be able to operate from the Fochs but how about Hermes or the Colossus class ships around at the time? It appears to have about the same weight and size with a Skyhawk, with slightly larger wing area and higher weight to thrust ratio...
 

hesham

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Lascaris said:
Was there any estimate on how small a carrier the Breguet 1120 could operate from? Obviously it would be able to operate from the Fochs but how about Hermes or the Colossus class ships around at the time? It appears to have about the same weight and size with a Skyhawk, with slightly larger wing area and higher weight to thrust ratio...


Hi Lascaris,


I think the Breguet Br.1120 intended to operate from Foch and Clemenceau and not from
Hermes as I know.
 

Lascaris

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hesham said:
Lascaris said:
Was there any estimate on how small a carrier the Breguet 1120 could operate from? Obviously it would be able to operate from the Fochs but how about Hermes or the Colossus class ships around at the time? It appears to have about the same weight and size with a Skyhawk, with slightly larger wing area and higher weight to thrust ratio...


Hi Lascaris,


I think the Breguet Br.1120 intended to operate from Foch and Clemenceau and not from
Hermes as I know.

Oh certainly. But the obvious thing that comes to mind is potential exports if the Br.1120 makes it into service. If it can fly off a Colossus it offers Australians and Indians not to mention Argentina or even Britain itself quite interesting options.
 

blackkite

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Beauty....
 

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Archibald

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Ha ha ! It's a picture I made a loooooong time ago ;D
I love that Breguet project, it's a forgotten niche in late French aviation history. Had it been build, Dassault series of Mirages could have been short-lived. A land-based Sirocco is essentially a Mirage F1 a good decade earlier...
But Breguet was nothing like Dassault.

The two machines are strikingly similar, which is in fact hardly surprising - there are not that many ways to design an Atar-9-powered, mach 2, swept wing interceptor with side-mounted air intakes... ::)

The Sirocco would have been closer from a Crusader, if not a little smaller and lighter since the Atar was the next generation of turbojet after the J-57 - closer from the J-79.

Hence I'm not sure it could operate from a Colossus. Hermes perhaps, but nothing smaller (Hermes was quite close from Clemenceaus).

The great export potential is as a joint project between the Marine Nationale and RN. Breguet could have worked with BAC just like what happened with the Jaguar six years later (note: the Jaguar started life as Breguet project 1210, while the earlier Sirocco was the 1120, o they are not so far apart !)

The French Navy used to operate 42 Crusaders and 71 Etendard IV (later S.E) for a grand total of of 113 fast jets. That's way too small for the Sirocco. Now thrown the RN into the fray, and numbers should rise a bit.

The issue is (from my Butler lectures) that the RN wanted a Phantom-class, all weather machine for the coming CVA-01. Complicated machines crammed with VG or lift jets or blown flaps plus two engines, two crewmembers, a large radar dish and big AAMs. The Sirocco is nothing like that, so...

By contrast the M.N had just fielded the Clemenceau that were already considered too small to assume both air defense and land attack roles. So the Crusaders were bought (1964) only for the fleet defence role to be switched to the guided missiles frigates, and (in the case of Cold War going hot) Uncle Sam expensive Tomcats (remember Red Storm Rising !) since the Clemenceaus would have been sent to North Atlantic along US carriers.
 

blackkite

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Thank you Archibald-san. :)
 

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