Borel designations

[Vahe Demirjian]

I came across the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Aircraft/Missing_articles/1 and I wanted to ask if anyone has info on these Borel planes:

Borel Bo.1
Borel Bo.2
Borel Bo.3
Borel Bo.4
Borel Bo.5
Borel Bo.6
Borel Bo.7
Borel Bo.8
Borel Bo.9
Borel Bo.10
Borel Bo.12
Borel Bo.13
Borel Bo.14
Borel Bo.15
Borel Bo.16
Borel Bo.17
Borel Bo.18
Borel Bo.19

 

[Apophenia]

hesham mentioned this Bo.1-to-Bo.19 sequence back in 2013. But, are we sure that these are designations for distinct aircraft designs? The Établissements Borel seems to have been lackadaisical about applying numerical designations. (OT: Later writers are also sloppy about attributing 'design' to Borel. Sure, Louis Borel was an aircraft designer but his brother, businessman Gabriel Borel was quite savvy about taking on outside designers.)

We see mentions of a 1911 Borel Bo.11 as a reconnaissance/trainer type. But contemporary references simply refer to this as a Borel Hydravion ... with BO 11 likely just being its construction number. In the case of the 1912 Borel Type Militaire single-seat tractor monoplane, the 'BO 9' construction number is clearly marked on the rudder.

For the most part, generic descriptions were applied instead - eg: Type Militaire regardless of whether it was yet another Morane-Borel monoplane or the 2-seat pusher recce type of 1912. Or designer names were used in combined forms - eg: Borel Ruby for the Frédéric Ruby-designed Torpille armed pusher, Borel Denhaut for the François Denhaut-designed Aéroyacht series, etc.

 

[hesham]

Hi Vahe,

actually this sequence is very hard to find,but we can speculate it,later I will send all I know about it.

 

[hesham]

By the way,

the numbers of designation is not related to the years,and as I think the Bo.11 was just identification to the year
by this period,but the whole series maybe as following;

Bo.1 was a two-seat monoplane,called Borel-Morane,1910
Bo.2 was a looks like Bleriot-IX,1910
Bo.3 was a pusher biplane,1911
Bo.4 was two-seat military trainer float monoplane,1911
Bo.5 was a single seat military monoplane,1911
Bo.6 was a four-seat military monoplane,1911
Bo.7 was a two-seat trainer military monoplane,(Obus),1912
Bo.8 was a two-seat float monoplane,1912
Bo.9 was a two-seat monoplane with skids,1912
Bo.10 was a single-seat racer monoplane,called L'Obus,1912
Bo.11 was a two-seat trainer float monoplane for Navy,1913
Bo.12 was a single seat monoplane with skids,1913
Bo.13 was a military monoplane with a machine gun,called Borel-Ruby,1913
Bo.14 was a two-seat military monoplane with a machine gun and pusher engine,called Type Militaire,1913
Bo.15 was a racer flying boat,a monoplane like,with pusher 160 hp Gnome engine,called Monaco,1913
Bo.16 was a four-seat patrol and torpedo bomber seaplane,powered by two 220 hp HS V-8 engines,called Borel- Odier
Bo-T,1915
Bo.17 was a single seat fighter biplane, with machine guns,and called C.1,never completed,1918
Bo.18 was a three-seat twin float high-seas biplane Project,powered by three 400 hp Lorraine engines,1918
Bo.19 was a three-seat twin float biplane,based on Bo-T,powered by two 400 hp Liberty engines,never completed,1918
Bo.20 was a 10-seat twin float biplane,as a transport aircraft,developed from Bo-T,and called Bo-C,destroyed before
test in 1919

 

[hesham]

Hi,

there was also;

Aeroyacht I was a Borel-Denhaut flying boat biplane,powered by pusher engine,1913
Aeroyacht II was the same as Aeroyacht I,but with cut-outs in the small low wings,1913
Aeroyacht III was developed from Aeroyavht I & II,but featured an even longer trailing rudder tip,longer lower wings, and conventional double-strut bracing-though still with wing-warping,1913
1921 was a single seat racer biplane
1922 was a triplane transport Project,need confirm
1923 was a flying boat high wing Project,powered by two engines
1924 was a three engined transport monoplane Project
Bomber was a twin engined bomber Project,need confirm or the year of the design ?
Borel-Boccaccio 3000 was a two-seat fighter biplane,developed from C.1,in C.2 category,1918

 

[hesham]

Hi,

also Borel formed SGCIM or Societe Generale des Constructions Industrielles et Mecaniques in 1918,remained
up to mid 1920s.

 

[hesham]

From L'Aeronautique 1921,

here is a racer biplane of 1921.

 

[hesham]

Bo.20 was a 10-seat twin float biplane,as a transport aircraft,developed from Bo-T,and called Bo-C,destroyed before
test in 1919

From TU 193,

as I expected before.

 

[fortrena]

Might the following be of interest?

The month of July 1910 saw the birth of an airplane manufacturing company, the Société anonyme des aéroplanes Morane-Borel. At the time, Gabriel Borel (1882-1945) and Albert Borel (1884-1946) held the concession for Blériot airplanes for the east of France. The two brothers, then involved in automobile sales, also owned a flying school equipped with Blériot Type XIs. The Borel’s partner, Léon Morane (1885-1918), had trained there in April 1910, before obtaining his pilot’s license. As his reputation grew, the young automobile racing pilot became increasingly interested in building airplanes. The Borel brothers provided the funding to realize this dream. The three men opened an office in Paris. An engineer joined the company in October 1910. Raymond Saulnier (1881-1964) was a childhood friend of Morane and his brother Robert Morane (1886-1968), another automobile racing pilot.

Eager to learn about the new science of flight, Saulnier had joined the Établissements Blériot-Aéronautique, a sister company of the Société anonyme des Établissements L. Blériot, in September 1908 as an unpaid employee. He left not too long after the historic flight across the Channel. You see, Saulnier believed that his services were worthy of a salary. The amount offered by his employer had seemed somewhat insufficient.

In October 1909, the young engineer formed the Société des aéroplanes Raymond Saulnier. The company built a few airplanes inspired by the Blériot XI but lacked the financial resources needed to become a major player. By September 1910, it was all but bankrupt. Léon Morane’s offer to join what soon became the Société anonyme des aéroplanes Morane-Borel-Saulnier was most welcome.

The first airplane put together by the company flew in October. This monoplane, commonly known as a Morane, was similar in appearance to the Blériot Type XI but included many improvements to its engine mount, landing gear, etc. Léon Morane was said to have designed this light and powerful racing airplane in conjunction with Saulnier and the Borel brothers.

Production of the Morane monoplane began near Paris, at the factory operated by the Anciens Établissements Letord et Niepce. Detailed figures are unknown but it has been suggested that 55 or so airplanes were built there (and elsewhere?) until 1912. It is worth noting that these machines were confusingly known as Morane, Morane Borel and Borel Morane. Some wits even called them Morel Borane.

The Société anonyme des aéroplanes Morane-Borel-Saulnier seemingly went out of business during the late spring, or else the summer, of 1911. There had been financial problems. As well, Jules Charles Toussaint Védrines (1881-1919), a former mechanic at the Société des moteurs Gnome and talented if hot-tempered pilot, was involved in a court battle with the Borel brothers. This too was about money, namely the prize money of the Paris-Madrid race, won by Védrines in May 1911, and how it should be shared. Léon Morane grew so concerned that be broke with the Borel brothers to form his own company in association with Raymond Saulnier. The Société anonyme des aéroplanes Morane-Saulnier was incorporated in early October 1911. Robert Morane joined the team later that year.

The departure of the Morane brothers and of Saulnier did not bring the aeronautical activities of the Borel brothers to a stop. The Société anonyme des aéroplanes Borel, as their company became known, kept busy by making airplanes that were all but identical to those produced before the breakup. Modified by the company’s chief engineer, Antoine Odier (1884-1956), these Borel monoplanes had a larger engine cowling as well as modified landing gears and tails. They could also be fitted with a more powerful engine.

In late 1911, aviation magazines like the British weekly Flight or the French bimonthly L’Aérophile offered to their readers a fair amount of information on the various machines offered by the Société anonyme des aéroplanes Borel. Two of its airplanes, for example, a single-seat racer and a two-seat military machine, were on display at the third Exposition internationale de locomotion aérienne, in Paris.

It is worth noting that six Borel monoplanes were delivered to the Aéronautique militaire, in 1912. There might have been others. Official trials for three of these airplanes took place in late February 1912. Another batch of three was accepted in mid-June.

 

[hesham]

Also TU 279,

- 1924 Postal, a features of postal 1924:
Two-seater monoplane with two Hispano 300 hp engines. Wingspan of 15 m; length
of 11.50 m,; surface of 38 m2 ; PV of 1180 kg and PT of 1880 kg; speed of 121
km / h (?) and ceiling of 6000 m.

 

[hesham]

I think the Type-3000 was not coming from nothing,but the series was up to "30",which
later switched to "3000".