Boeing E-7 Wedgetail AEW&C

02:30 good to see they have toilets and food heating stations for the pilots. the E-2 doesn't have them except the Japanese version, which the JSDF demanded to be included. Surprised they managed to fit one due to how much smaller and cramp the E-2 is compared to the E-7
 
TomcatViP said:
$2+Billion is hardly a life support line. It´s a commitment. Let´s hope that an order follows next.
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It's not a strong commitment though. All it funds is the EMD phase, not procurement of any additional aircraft.. Given the back and forth of funding and not it wouldn't surprise me if this injected at least another 6 months if not a year to the already year and a bit of delay the program had. That is before we consider that development of just the two test airframes was already projected to go overbudget more than 33%...
 
FighterJock said:
Wonder what the undisclosed number of E-7 is going to be? No doubt that it will be more than the RAF purchased, in saying that we should have purchased more than we eventually did.
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Probably not more than 3 with that amount of money.

Seems at least at the top of the USAF there is still a lot of uncertainty.
Air Force Secretary Troy Meink last month told reporters at AFA’s Warfare Symposium in Colorado that the service would follow Congress’ mandate to buy the prototype E-7s, but he was noncommittal beyond that. A March 10 Air Force solicitation for product support for the E-7 asked vendors to submit a business case for a fleet ranging anywhere in size from just the two prototype aircraft to a full complement of 26.
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Not sure whether this is just a budget reality for him as he can only afford so many new platforms or that the current/future threat is playing a role in that decision.
 
This story is pretty crazy: Congress ramming back the E-7 into the Air Force despite they hatred of it. Usually it is NASA that get SLS rammed into them, pork barrel by Congress.
 
Ozair said:
Probably not more than 3 with that amount of money.

Seems at least at the top of the USAF there is still a lot of uncertainty.

Not sure whether this is just a budget reality for him as he can only afford so many new platforms or that the current/future threat is playing a role in that decision.
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The E-7 mess is of OSD's making. Specifically, CAPE within the OSD. USAF is having to eat it because that's the direction of the department on its modernization plans.

The EMD phase was next after the OTA phase that included 2 aircraft. The following phase is production.
 
Finger's and toes crossed the US E-7's enter full production without any more issues from the US Government bring_it_on.
 
bring_it_on said:
The E-7 mess is of OSD's making. Specifically, CAPE within the OSD. USAF is having to eat it because that's the direction of the department on its modernization plans.
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The summation is that the USAF had to give up something/numerous things to get F-47 and E-7 is one of the obvious candidates. It pushes a large can of money down the road. It remains a budget issue, Meink cannot afford everything he wants and despite suggestions for a 1.2 to 1.5t budget that may never eventuate he has to at least project forward an acquisition pathway that is realistic and affordable.

Even with the above, it cannot be ignored that the threat picture is changing and the survivability of the E-7 for a China scenario, which is consuming a lot of acquisition dollars today, is clearly being questioned.
bring_it_on said:
The EMD phase was next after the OTA phase that included 2 aircraft. The following phase is production.
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Sure, doesn't change my prediction on three aircraft, and by the article the EMD phase is not expected to finish until approx 2032. Perhaps a production decision is possible in 2030 but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

FighterJock said:
Finger's and toes crossed the US E-7's enter full production without any more issues from the US Government bring_it_on.
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And if or when Boeing reports another delay to the program?

GTX said:
I really doubt any air force would hate having E-7s given to them
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I agree 100% the USAF would take them if they could afford them.

Desertfox said:
With all the heavy drone usage and THAAD radars getting hit... Seems like AWACS still have alot of use left in them.
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Of course useful but there is likely a quicker and cheaper way to accomplish that mission. Perhaps tethered balloons or a drone mounted with a decent radar and datalink.
 
Ozair said:
Of course useful but there is likely a quicker and cheaper way to accomplish that mission. Perhaps tethered balloons or a drone mounted with a decent radar and datalink.
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A large chunk of the cost is the radar itself. A drone or a...balloons???...with a similarly capable radar would result in similarly high cost. You can have more drones with less capable radars, but these are still vulnerable and provide...well...less capability. And radar is not really something where you can afford high attrition.
 
EmoBirb said:
A large chunk of the cost is the radar itself. A drone or a...balloons???...with a similarly capable radar would result in similarly high cost. You can have more drones with less capable radars, but these are still vulnerable and provide...well...less capability. And radar is not really something where you can afford high attrition.
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The costs are vastly different. Building, certifying and operating a fleet of 737 sized aircraft carrying radars is a lot more than what would essentially be fixed place unmanned assets that are already in service today in the form of the Tethered Aerostat Radar System which seems ideal for the drone threat,
AMO uses TARS to provide long-range detection of low-altitude aircraft at the radar’s maximum range. The elevated sensor mitigates the curvature of the earth and terrain masking limitations. TARS detects and tracks a majority of suspicious air traffic along the southwest border, including ultralight and short landing aircraft threats.
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Ozair said:
The summation is that the USAF had to give up something/numerous things to get F-47 and E-7 is one of the obvious candidates. It pushes a large can of money down the road. It remains a budget issue, Meink cannot afford everything he wants and despite suggestions for a 1.2 to 1.5t budget that may never eventuate he has to at least project forward an acquisition pathway that is realistic and affordable.
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The OSD decision pre-dates the current SecAF's tenure. Both a confirmed SecAF and then CSAF were not involved in the analysis OSD used to support this decision.

We can come up with a number of justifications we want to cope with the decision after the fact but at least be aware that this was thrust upon the USAF from OSD. And not the other way around. Not something the service wanted to do [Which is why Congress and a whole host of fairly recent retired senior AF officials are fighting against it]. We can safely retire that excuse.
 
bring_it_on said:
The OSD decision pre-dates the current SecAF's tenure. Both a confirmed SecAF and then CSAF were not involved in the analysis OSD used to support this decision.

We can make whatever justification we want to cope with the decision after the fact but at least be aware that this was thrust upon the USAF from the OSD. Not something the service wanted to do. So let's retire that excuse.
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I'm not suggesing the USAF likes it, I'm suggesting the USAF has to live with it.
 
Ozair said:
I'm not suggesing the USAF likes it, I'm suggesting the USAF has to live with it.
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Congress gets to decide that. Not CAPE. When or If the Congress funds the program, I'm sure the AF will live with it. And then we can focus on finding reasons why it was such a good move to have it.

For now, the OSD and DAF better shut up and run an EMD program the Congress has ordered them to execute. And not buy E-2D's for the USAF since Congress zero'd out that funding.
 
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bring_it_on said:
And not buy E-2D's for the USAF since Congress zero'd out that funding.
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The USAF buying E-2Ds? I thought that the USAF only took USN aircraft when they were forced down its' collective throat by the likes of McNamara (The F-4 and A-7 aircraft come to mind).
 

UK Wedgetail Program Troubled By Configuration Differences​


LONDON—Differences between the Royal Australian Air Force’s E-7 Wedgetail and the variant being acquired by the UK have led to “significant delays” in the program, British defense officials have revealed.

Rupert Pearce, the UK’s newly appointed national armaments director, told a hearing of the Parliamentary Defense Committee on March 17 that the Defense Ministry had initially expected the Boeing 737-based airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft to be “largely proven out of Australia” when it signed a £2.15 billion ($2.7 billion) contract with Boeing in 2019.

However, the gap between the Australian and UK configurations “has meant a much higher level of obsolescence management and certification of new components,” Pearce said, which has contributed to delays.
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…
Pearce also described Boeing as a “troubled partner.” While acknowledging the company’s efforts to bring the aircraft into service, he said Boeing had faced “difficulties inside their own aircraft programs” that had resulted in increased scrutiny within its certification processes.

The program has also drawn criticism from former UK Defense Secretary Ben Wallace, who described the procurement of the aircraft and associated radar systems as one of the “worst examples of dishonesty” he had seen from the armed services.
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UK Wedgetail Program Troubled By Configuration Differences | Aviation Week Network

Differences between the Royal Australian Air Force’s E-7 Wedgetail and the variant being acquired by the UK have led to “significant delays” in the program.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
NATO pivots from Boeing to SAAB for the AWACS due to the perceived US unreliable participation in the programme. French and German sources indicate that the SAAB/Bombardier has been selected as preferred bidder for the E-3 replacement over the E-7 despite the E-7 previously being awarded sole supplier status.

www.defensenews.com

NATO eyes Swedish-Canadian jet for AWACS role in shift away from Boeing

The political momentum behind the GlobalEye had been building for a while.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
Btw the Koreans turned towards L3 Harris Aeris X (CAEW on G6500) last year, despite operating 4 E-7s already, for the second E-X competition. I wonder what they will do with their pre-existing aircraft.
 
www.abc.net.au

E-7 Wedgetails are world leading, so why are they up for replacement?

Australia's fleet of world-leading surveillance aircraft is set to be replaced and analysts say the planes could be replaced by drones.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

And RAAF is planning for a Wedgetail replacement that will come to service iin around a decade from now, if they keep their plan.

I personally think it will be an upgraded Wedgetail with a new MESA-replacement, as has been touted before.

www.aviationtoday.com

USAF Considers FY 2027 EMD for Wedgetail Upgrades, Including MESA Replacement - Aviation Tech Today

The U.S. Air Force is considering starting engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) in fiscal 2027 for upgrades to the Boeing E-7A Wedgetail, including a replacement of the Northrop Grumman Multi-Role […]
www.aviationtoday.com www.aviationtoday.com
 
Maro.Kyo said:
www.abc.net.au

E-7 Wedgetails are world leading, so why are they up for replacement?

Australia's fleet of world-leading surveillance aircraft is set to be replaced and analysts say the planes could be replaced by drones.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

And RAAF is planning for a Wedgetail replacement that will come to service iin around a decade from now, if they keep their plan.

I personally think it will be an upgraded Wedgetail with a new MESA-replacement, as has been touted before.

www.aviationtoday.com

USAF Considers FY 2027 EMD for Wedgetail Upgrades, Including MESA Replacement - Aviation Tech Today

The U.S. Air Force is considering starting engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) in fiscal 2027 for upgrades to the Boeing E-7A Wedgetail, including a replacement of the Northrop Grumman Multi-Role […]
www.aviationtoday.com www.aviationtoday.com
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I don’t think it will be updated anything US built. Countries have seen the valuable nature of more independence in their defence procurement. Especially when combined with the fact that the US itself seems to have little to no interest in using the type itself.
 
Personally I would like to see a 787 AWACS in a few years time or even a 777 derivative if all else fails.
 

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