Boeing 6th Gen Fighter - F/A-XX

[Sferrin]

Those programs may or may not have a relationship to Phantom Works and NGAD. KC46 is completely unrelated. Neither of those programs speak directly to the work boeing has 'demonstrated' on the actual NGAD and related programs for the DOD (AF and Navy). Speaking specifically to the program and everything that fed into it. Those are far more likely to have had an influence on the decision than programs listed above.

We're talking about two different things. I'm not concerned at all that Boeing managed to one-up NG and LM (everybody was surprised when they were the winners of ATF too). My concern is production. I have little faith in Boeing's ability to deliver, and all those programs demonstrate that that's where they struggle. (Well, one of the areas.)

 

[DWG]

shifting the responsibility of drilling holes and interfaces from the guys on the floor to the supplier
....
- FSDA improves assembly touch labor hours by at least 60-80%.
- Hole size/location has 98-99% first time quality.

So the alternatives are either:
Supplier places part in mounting/jig, robot drills holes according to Catia.
Or:
Supplier sends part to Boeing, Boeing puts part in mounting/jig, robot drills holds according to Catia.

I'm really not seeing how the supplier doing it gives greater accuracy than Boeing can manage for the same process. OTOH it does increase Boeing's Revenue Per Employee by shifting employee numbers over to the supply chain, and if your management bonus is dependent on improving RPE ....

 

[Desertfox]

I'll point out that Boeing Military (old McD) has proven to be more reliable than Boeing Commercial (new McD). F-15 and F/A-18 have been fairly successful and relatively problem free. Id put Boeing Military above LM right now but still below NG.

 

[barry bozo]

So the alternatives are either:
Supplier places part in mounting/jig, robot drills holes according to Catia.
Or:
Supplier sends part to Boeing, Boeing puts part in mounting/jig, robot drills holds according to Catia.

I'm really not seeing how the supplier doing it gives greater accuracy than Boeing can manage for the same process. OTOH it does increase Boeing's Revenue Per Employee by shifting employee numbers over to the supply chain, and if your management bonus is dependent on improving RPE ....

Hand drilling vs. CNC milling is how it’s so much more accurate.

It puts more on the supplier, but it’s done in the same setup as when it’s being CNC’d, so it’s not an extravagant amount of extra work from a machining perspective.

Regardless of the nuances, NG (and likely LM) now are using this method on newer projects, so it clearly bring a lot of benefits. Boeing has just been doing it for longer and therefore has a better understanding of its benefits.

 

[B2Blain]

Is this a black program? I was not aware GE or Pratt has been working on derivatives of the F110 or F100.

Trimble confirmed the derivative. Odd. You would think there would be info regarding testing. Trimble reiterated a GE interim engine for the F-47. Leaning toward BAE EW and RTX radar because that what Boeing does with their fighters.