• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Bernard Prototypes & Projects

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Little known aircraft and projects:

Bernard 16: colonial high wing transport aircraft.

Bernard H.V.320 : racer aircraft developed from H.V.220 (project only).
 

raravia

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
90
Reaction score
5
Hesham

I have a book of all Bernard aircrafts, but i don´t have scanner. Do you have any 3 view of theses Bleriot Projects you mentioned?

Raravia
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Hi Raravia,

I am sorry ,I don't have any drawings to them ,but if you have Bernard aircraft
please mention the little known aircraft from them;such as AB.4 to AB.9 .
 

raravia

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
90
Reaction score
5
Hesham

I read something about the two aircrafts you mentioned.

Bernard 16/160 of 1930, was a high wing three Gnôme-Rhône Titan Major engines of 300hp, metal built. It made their first flight on 1932, piloted by Baptiste.

Bernard HV.320 was a beautiful seaplane project, a clean monoplane designed to win the Schneider Cup of 1931. It was a more advanced aircraft than the Bernard HV.220 and French builders full of proud had to recover the cup from the hands of the English who won the last two editions, 1927 and 1929. But it was full of technical problems, the French government feels frustrated for the constant delays and prefer to not participate in the race.

The book of Jean Liron, Les Avions Bernard, have two photos of the Bernard 160 and a sketch of the HV.320, but i don´t have scanner.

It also have others seaplane projects, the HV.300, with a single engine, and a twin engine projected for the 1933 Schneider Cup, that reminds me the german Dornier Do.18.

Sorry, but it´s all i can do for you right now.

I hope it helps.

Raravia
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Hi,

I spoke about Bernard projects before,such as SAB-370 racer aircraft of 1934,and
I want a drawing to Bernard SAB-30T a four engined twin boom transport project,
and also I know that the SAB-90 was twin engined recce bomber of 1934,in which
competition it was involved ?.
 

Deltafan

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
922
Reaction score
225
Source : les avions Bernard, Docavia-Larivière, 1990, from Jean Liron :

Page 222 :

SAB 90 BR : 1934's study of a "reprisal bomber" programme of 1933 (programme : max speed : 400 km/h, bombs : 500 kgs, 3000 km with 380 km/h). Contenders : Dewoitine D.331 und Amiot 340.


Page 136 :

Six lines about the 30 T, but no drawing.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Thank you my dear Deltafan very much,

and if you can sent a drawing to SAB-90 BR,please.
 

Deltafan

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
922
Reaction score
225
Sorry, there is no drawing in the book about the 90 BR :(
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Thank you my dear Deltafan,

and last question,the Bernard also developed a twin engined single seat
recce fighter project,in which competition it was involved ?.

And by the way,the competition of 1934 was for day recce bomber,and the
tenders were;Latecoere-570,Romano-120,LeO-45,Amiot-340,Dewoitine-331
and Bernard-90.
 

Deltafan

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
922
Reaction score
225
I did not find anything in the book about such a twin engined single seat recce fighter project...
Have you other informations about it (engines, year, ... ?)
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
My dear Deltafan,

I think it the info was in Airwarfareforum site,I will check,
and may be it was recce aircraft only not fighter.
 

Justo Miranda

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
3,746
Reaction score
846
Racers and fighters prototypes
sources
-Le fanatique de l'Aviation unknown issues
-http://richard.ferriere.free.fr/3vues/P-3vues.html
-http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/bernard20.html
-B.C.F.K. publications-five views album-1973
 

Attachments

airman

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,146
Reaction score
47
Website
zeef.com
The Fighter Bernard S.74 was very nice and advanced for their times !
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
348
Justo, you've really got yourself a treasure of French prototype scans!! Keep' em coming! ;)
 

c460

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
395
Reaction score
24
According to Charles Claveau in Le Trait d'Union no.205, this project was called HV.100.
The drawing appeared in Les Avions Bernard by Jean Liron, but it looks like your scan comes from another source.
The book has drawings of other Bernard floatplane racers: the HV.40, HV.42, HV.120 and HV.120-1 prototypes, the HV.220 and HV.320 which never flew, and the HV.300 project, a strange aircraft not unlike the Piaggio-Pegna PC7.
It also has a picture of the unfinished mock-up of the Bernard 370 land-based racer (1934), but there is not enough info for a drawing.
 

mattrix

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
39
Reaction score
0
IIRC, the engine nacelle pylon appears to be fitted with surface cooling radiators.
 

Deltafan

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
922
Reaction score
225
With a new engine (450 hp), the 74 C1-01 (360 hp) became the 75. The french army wanted to order 25 Bernard 75, but Bernard declined the offer because of the too weak industrial capacities of his Company... :-\

The Bernard 260 had Handley-Page license built flaps and slats. Its speed was 375 km/h and it was the speediest plane of the 1930-32 C1 programme. An evolution (Bernard 261) was foreseen with closed cockpit and retractable landing gear, but it was too late for Bernard (bankrupt).
 

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
33
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Answering Hesham : (projects without pictures alas)

In Trait d’Union #145 Sep.Oct.1992 :
- Bernard 90GR : in 1933 was issued a program of retaliation bomber to carry 500kg bombs on 3,000km and reach 400km/h. Dewoitine proposed Modèle 331, Amiot : Type 340, Bernard : Modèle 90 BR. In November 1934, a B4 program code A21 replaced the former. The type 90 BR had two 900hp Gnôme-Rhône 14Kfs engines. With a single rear post, or else : a rear post and a front post, it should have reached 420km/h. Total weight 7,000kg, range 5,000km. It was considered to install both engines in tandem at the front of the fuselage, driving counter-rotating propellers and then reaching 490km/h.
- Bernard 30T : transport, 4 engines Hispano-Suiza 18Sb of 1,000hp, total weight 28,000kg

In #146 Nov.Dec.1992 :
- Bernard 170V : light racer of 1930 that should reach above 300km/h, but the government proposed not enough payment to build it.
- Bernard 170 (2nd with this code): 1935 project of twin-engine high-speed bomber.
- Bernard 340: For the same program as the Latécoère 550 and the AB 21, the Modèle 340 Bn5 was a float seaplane, with 4 Gnôme-Rhône engines, twin fins, carrying bombs or torpedo. Ordered by the government but building not finished, due to a misunderstanding about the price.
- Bernard 370: racer for the Deutsh Cup 1934, designed by Bruner, single-seater with retractable landing gear, with a 450 hp Salmson engine. The engine never reached operation status.
- Bernard HV.100 : not mentioned
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,133
Reaction score
696
From Aviation Magazine Septembre 1960, the Bernard 83, project for an aircraft
for South-Atlantic postal service.
BTW, I've merged three threads about Bernardaircraft into this one.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Hi,


SAB-170 was a racer aircraft project.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
348
hesham said:
Hi,


SAB-170 was a racer aircraft project.
I could be wrong, hesham, but as far as I know, SAB was the Société des Avions Bordelais (which produced the AB-20 and SAB-80 aircraft), not Bernard!
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Of course not;


it was called; Societe des Avions Bernard,or SAB.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
348
In this case there were two distinct "SAB" companies, hesham. Do you have a document showing the Bernard 170?
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
No drawing to SAB-170,


but from the book; Les Avions Bernard.
 

Attachments

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
348
So this confirms that the acronym "SAB" was used for two distinct companies in the 1930s, the "Société des Avions Bernard" on the one hand, and the "Société Aéronautique Bordelaise" on the other... Thanks for the source, hesham.
 

toura

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,202
Reaction score
86
1917 : Ets Adolphe Bernard (AB)
1922 : Ste industrielle des metaux et du bois (SIMB)
1927 : ste des avions Bernard.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Hi,


Bernard Model 210 and Model 500 were developed from Model 200
light aircraft projects,has anyone a more info about them ?.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
hesham said:
Hi,


Bernard Model 210 and Model 500 were developed from Model 200
light aircraft projects,has anyone a more info about them ?.

I get them,

Model 210 was a four seat light aircraft,developed from Model 200,powered
by one 140 hp De Havilland Gipsy Major Ic engine.
Model 500 was a three seat variant of Model 210,powered by one De Havilland Gipsy
Major I engine.

also;

Model 202 was a variant of Model 200 with 100 hp Chaise 4A engine,project only.
Model 203 was a variant of Model 200 with 120 hp Chaise 4B engine,project only.
Model 204 was a variant of Model 200 with 120 hp Renault 4P engine,project only.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Hi,


also in that French site,there was the Bernard 350 project,does anyone know it ?.


http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements6.php
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,793
Reaction score
53
In - Les Avions Bernard - by the great Jean Liron

(DocAvia 31-1980) no mention is made of a type 350.

Not in the text and not in the very extensive type list.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
OK my dear Lark,


but there is many gaps in Bernard designation series,we can't find it,and it is not
logically to avoid using it,may be later or in anther sites,we discover that,there is many
projects unknown to us,and I remember you,in this site (SPF),we unveiled many projects
for a lot of companies,never mention in a books,those books speaks about them in details.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,793
Reaction score
53
The ' Les Avions Bernard ' list in the book is
very complete and in perfect chronological order.

This means there are no ''what iff's" "maybe's" or "could be's" and other speculations.
Pure facts and history , the way I like it.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
My dear Lark,


that's impossible,can we ask our self,from where George Messier got those designations ?,
of course from the companies which contacted him,he didn't create them.


for that example,Bernard company asked him to design a landing gear for aircraft,
with specific dimensions,that aircraft called Bernard 350,as they said to him,the
error if there's one,came from the Bernard company.


Last thing is the gaps between the Bernard designation,make us confuse,such as;
there is Bernard 340 and Bernard 370,why he didn't use the two numbers between
them,no reason or no sense for that.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,793
Reaction score
53
This is a senseless discussion...
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
348
Two Bernard aircraft, the first one seems to be the Type 20 C1*. Can anyone identify the latter one?

* Actually the V.2 speed record holder. Thanks to c460 for the correct identification.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
25,713
Reaction score
2,698
Bernard 20 and Bernard AB-1.
 

Cy-27

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
541
Reaction score
86
I suspect the attached scan of designations may be from Les Avions Bernard by Jean Liron - can anyone confirm?

I presume the projects are the items with the exemplaire column set to 0 (I'm not a French speaker, I have more of an 'Allo 'Allo style).

I had no idea so many designs came from Avions Bernard.
 

Attachments

Top