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Bernard Prototypes & Projects

c460

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Cy-27 said:
I suspect the attached scan of designations may be from Les Avions Bernard by Jean Liron - can anyone confirm?

I presume the projects are the items with the exemplaire column set to 0 (I'm not a French speaker, I have more of an 'Allo 'Allo style).
Yes, you're right. Columns are: type/engine/hp/wingspan/length/height/wing area/empty weight/gross weight/max speed/range/ceiling/category/year/prototype registration/number built/remarks.
 

Cy-27

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Many thanks C460, now I must try and source a copy of the book, not just two pages ! It sounds quite extensive even for non-French speakers...
 

hesham

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Great list my dear Cy-27,


and I know the Bernard series 80 reach to designation 88,that's from Trait d'Union
magazine.
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
I know the Bernard series 80 reach to designation 88,that's from Trait d'Union magazine.
Le Trait d'Union was wrong then. The list is pretty clear that the numbers went much higher than 88.
 

hesham

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Stargazer,


may be you don't understand me,I meant the series 80 only,it ended by 88,and
that Info is not available by Internet.
 

c460

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Hi Hesham,
I noticed this article (about a prewar Salon), but I think this "HV.47" is a typo or other mistake. Please also note that the article says that the HV.42 should have received the Hispano 18S, whereas it is well known that the 18 cylinder engine was for the HV.120 racer, whereas the HV.41 and HV.42 trainers had 12 cylinder engines.
 

Schneiderman

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Hi,

Yes, you are correct. I think that the error may be because the number 1 when written by the French looks very much like a 7. The HV41 and HV42 were very similar aircraft, basically the same structure but with different radiator arrangements. The aircraft displayed at the salon was an HV.42

They are all described in my book along with 3-view drawings
 

toura

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Hi Hesham
"Crimso" write in the tittle "40 to 45"
on the photo "45" this is wrong
The plane is HV 40
The same photo from " le fana"
 

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Jemiba

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Docavia N° 31 confirms this. No mention of "HV 45", here a drawing of the HV 40
from the mentioned book:
 

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hesham

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OK my dears Toura and Jemiba,


but what about the article in Le FANA,about HV.47,they mentioned the three
previous designs in it; HV.40,HV.41 & HV.42.
 

Treebeard

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Long time reader - some additional Bernard links:

http://speedbirds.free.fr/Board/hv120.jpg
http://www.maquettes-de-soufflerie.com/Avion_de_course_Bernard_S-72_racer.html
http://forum.aviation-ancienne.fr/t2622p30-avions-bernard
http://www.aviafrance.com/constructeur.php?ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=202

Just from an aesthetic standpoint, I enjoy looking at many of the Bernard aircraft. For their era, they look sleek and fast. :)
 

Jemiba

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Welcome Treebeard !
Thanks for your post, the Speedbirds site/forum looks especially interesting ! ;)
 

hesham

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Thank you Treebeard,


and may be the HV.45 & HV.47 were a typo only.
 

lark

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Just for the record..

As far as I found,there is not a single mention about a '45 or '47 type
in the Hydravions de Vitesse chapter ,nor in the
extensive production and designs list in the
Docavia No.31 about Les Avions Bernard...
 

hesham

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My dear Lark,


I have the Docavia No.31 book,but I was confuse from Le FANA magazine
and its article.
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
I have the Docavia No.31 book,but I was confuse from Le FANA magazine
and its article.
Le Fana and Docavia : same publisher, same people. If the book doesn't have it, it means the magazine printed a typo. Books get a lot more attention and proofreading compared to magazines.
 

c460

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Actually the clipping from Le Fana (no.46, July 1973) is an extract of an article by Michel Borget on the 1930 Paris Salon. This article is interesting because it shows all the planes exhibited at the Salon, but it is not a detailed research article on Bernard aircraft, hence the typos perhaps copied from period magazines.
It is in later issues (no.80 to 90) that Louis Meurillon wrote his in-depth study of Bernard racing seaplanes (with no more H.V. 47 or 45). The chapter on racing seaplanes in the Docavia book by Jean Liron is mostly based on this study by Meurillon.
 

hesham

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My dear C460,


you confess me.
 

Schneiderman

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George Bruner, designer at Bernard, wrote an article for Aero Album describing his work on the HV racers. In translation to English HV41 was erroneously changed to HV47, a confusion between the written 1 and 7 for native English speakers. I am sure that this has happened several times in other articles. An easy mistake to make
 

c460

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Schneiderman said:
George Bruner, designer at Bernard, wrote an article for Aero Album describing his work on the HV racers. In translation to English HV41 was erroneously changed to HV47, a confusion between the written 1 and 7 for native English speakers. I am sure that this has happened several times in other articles. An easy mistake to make
Hi Schneiderman,
I'm curious to see this article by Bruner. I've got your excellent book and the articles by Meurillon and Liron, so I will probably not learn anything. But it's always special to read the story as written by a first-hand actor.
Adrien
 

Stargazer2006

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A company brochure of the Bernard 200T from the Philippe Veys collection:
http://www.bamfbamrs.be/Bahl/albums/userpics/10001/Bernard_type_200T%2C_Bernard%2C_193_%2C__11_p%2C_Coll_P_Veys.pdf
 

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c460

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Skyblazer said:
Two Bernard aircraft, the first one seems to be the Type 20 C1. Can anyone identify the latter one?
For records, in #37, the above aircraft is the Bernard V.2 speed record holder, not the 20 C1.
 

Stargazer2006

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c460 said:
For records, in #37, the above aircraft is the Bernard V.2 speed record holder, not the 20 C1.
Mistake fixed, thanks a lot c460!
 

hesham

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Hi,


a friend to me saw in Gallica site,the Bernard AB12 was twice allocated,one for fighter and
anther one for transport aircraft project,I have the book; Les Avions Bernard,of course he
could be wrong or a misprint,and I am carious about the 1927 transport project,which
has no type number ?.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


here is the SIMB AB.3 M,it was a twin boom three engined multi-place bomber,intended for
3M competition of 1925 to compete Latecoere Late.6M,construction never completed.


Also the SIMB AB.3 T was a transport project version of AB.3 M,and the AB.10 T was three
engined flying boat for commercial transport,never completed.
 

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hesham

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Jemiba said:
From Aviation Magazine Septembre 1960, the Bernard 83, project for an aircraft
for South-Atlantic postal service.
BTW, I've merged three threads about Bernardaircraft into this one.

My dear Jemiba,


here is anther drawings to Bernard 83,with more details.


l'Aeronautique 1934.
 

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hesham

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Also from l'Aeronautique 1934,


a strange patent for Bernard to a flying boat.
 

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hesham

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Hi,

here is a Model for Bernard AB 10T.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201928%2002.pdf
 

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Schneiderman

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hesham said:
a strange patent for Bernard to a flying boat.
Just a patent for adjustable sponsons, nothing particularly strange
 

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I'm curious if there are any surviving specifications for the Bernard AB.10T?

We have the wingspan (in metres?) and a mention in the Bernard designations thread that the engines are 320hp Lorraine engines.

Also, does anyone see four engines in the model from L'ala d'Italia (15 February 1923) posted by Hesham? Is this another design or just an engine variant? Or am I seeing things?
 

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Avimimus said:
Also, does anyone see four engines in the model from L'ala d'Italia (15 February 1923) posted by Hesham? ...
Yes, that long center nacelle may well house two engines, the supporting struts at its rear perhaps
indicate, that there the need was seen for stabilizing and damping motions/vibrations. Principally an easy
way to increase installed power, at least at first glance.
 

hesham

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Avimimus said:
I'm curious if there are any surviving specifications for the Bernard AB.10T?

We have the wingspan (in metres?) and a mention in the Bernard designations thread that the engines are 320hp Lorraine engines.

Also, does anyone see four engines in the model from L'ala d'Italia (15 February 1923) posted by Hesham? Is this another design or just an engine variant? Or am I seeing things?
Sharpe notice my dear Avimimus,and maybe it's a variant AB 10T.
 

hesham

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Hi,

Bernard Type-190T was also modified as a military aircraft Projects,one of them are;

- a three-seat long range recce airplane with Hispano engine.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Hi,

Bernard Type-190T was also modified as a military aircraft Projects,one of them are;

- a three-seat long range recce airplane with Hispano engine.
- a three/four-seat combat and multi role airplane Project.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
hesham said:
Bernard Type-190T was also modified as a military aircraft Projects,one of them are;

- a three-seat long range recce airplane with Hispano engine.
- a three/four-seat combat and multi role airplane Project.
- a three-seat day bomber Project with Lorraine engine.
 
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