Bede Designs

Maveric

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Hi walter,
yes I have also the designation H.B.1 for the "Super Demoiselle".
Do you have some technical data for the B.D.9?
Any drawings of the B.D.11? The designation "13" wads not used?
Thanks Maveric
 

walter

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Hi Maveric :)
Sorry, but I have no details/drawings or the like for the BD-11.
Since the BD-9 was a ultra-light category aircraft, it is not included in my "database". But I never threw away my old typewriter files (you know what a typewriter is?) and found this in an old shoebox:
Single-seat, one 35hp Cuyuna 430-2UL (two-stroke) engine. Wingspan 32ft 2 in, length 21ft 11in
Design by James Bede and his design office for National Aircraft Corporation. Bede also built the prototype which was first flown in June or July 1983. The design was stressed for +6g/-6G. Did not find performance figures.
Hopes this helps
Regards, Walter
 

djfawcett

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The BD-11 looks identical to the BD-10 except that the 2 place tandem cockpit is replaced with a 4 place cabin. I have some drawing somewhere. If I find them, I will post. By the way, the engine was to be a Williams FJ-44-1 engine. Dave
 

djfawcett

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Unfortunately, I have no information on the 19, 20, 21. I would assume they are designs that are strictly personal to Jim Bede. He has a number of those, and some of them are very, very interesting - i.e. - they were extremely good looking.
 

hesham

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By the way,


during 1980s and 1990s,I went usually to libraries to read a books and magazines about
aviation,and I don't remember the name of book spoke about Bede BD-10 aircraft,said
or mentioned that;


the Bede BD-12 was a ground attack version and BD-14 was a lightweight fighter projected
versions,they were just ideas.


And we must remeber the magic word "re-allocated".
 

Jos Heyman

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Can you remember the title of the book so that we read more about this? Because somehow, this attack/fighter stuff seems unlikely to me.
 

hesham

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Jos Heyman said:
Can you remember the title of the book so that we read more about this? Because somehow, this attack/fighter stuff seems unlikely to me.


Sorry my dear Jos,


but I will try to remember.
 

djfawcett

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The BD-12 was a 2 place side by side pusher recip powered general aviation aircraft. The BD-14 was the 4 place version. The BD-12 crashed on the take off of its first flight. The BD-14 was never built.
 

Maveric

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@walter: Thanks for your answer.
And no, I don´t know what a typewriter is... B)
 

Stargazer2006

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Here's a pretty good Jim Bede story.

In the early 80's a rigid wing ultralight named the NAC Dream showed up at Oshkosh. This little airplane was virtually the first conventionally configured Part 103 vehicle that looked like a real airplane, not a lawn chair. The thing was a hit.

Then word spread around that Bede was associated with the project. Two things happened, the airplane was an instant commercial failure, and lots of people that were still pissed off about losing their deposits for BD-5's were hunting for Bede with intent to give him a thumping. Thousands of people lost deposits for kits and production versions, roughly 12000.

Jim Bede is a hell of a speaker, dreamer, and not a bad airplane configurator. But the trail of shoddy business following him is long, and virtually unbroken. While he was in the St. Louis region working on the BD-10 and a couple of other projects I went to his shop a few times and was stunned about some details I saw on the jet. The tail problems were predicted, that was a no brainer. The wing skin assembly was a real surprise; aluminum honeycomb sandwich tooling board, while not necessary a problem in itself, the connection at the edges of the skins is unacceptable. Only the outermoldline skin was fastened, the inner skin was terminated without attachment. This defeats the advantage of honeycomb construction and long term fatigue life is severly compromised whether or not the static strength is sufficient.

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=147&t=816470

NOTES: The NAC Dream was the BD-9. — Three of all five BD-10 prototypes crashed fatally.
 

hesham

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djfawcett said:
The BD-12 was a 2 place side by side pusher recip powered general aviation aircraft. The BD-14 was the 4 place version. The BD-12 crashed on the take off of its first flight. The BD-14 was never built.


Yes Djfawcett,


I know that,but the early allocated to BD-12 & BD-14 maybe was just plan for development
never saw the light.
 

hesham

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From the book, The BD-5 Story;

a very early concept drawing.
 

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Boxman

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Bede BD-5 promotional film, "Pieces of a Dream" (circa early-1970s), posted by Periscope Film on YouTube. The film even features voiceovers by "BD-5 Director of Development" Burt Rutan (12-minute, 30-second mark), and test pilot Les Berven (13-min, 19-sec mark).

YouTube - Periscope Film: "Pieces of a Dream"
 
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Foo Fighter

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"Will the dream dissipate with the morning sun"? Well, having seen the home builder at work, the nightmare remained. Thankfully few of these home builds are around, I just hope there are none in my piece of the world. or are there?..........
 

Mark Nankivil

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Good Day All -

In cleaning up for a project, I uncovered my BD-10 material. I guess to pays to clean/move the files once in a while!

Attached are two drawings of the BD-10 - presently in the process of scanning a couple of the brochures and will post those shortly.

I have a good friend who was an engineer with McDonnell/McDonnell-Douglas who got involved with a design assessment of the BD-10. He stated the design was most definitely subsonic and had marginal directional stability - seems to be a trend in later Bede designs after the BD-5.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Dynoman

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BD-10 Promotional Film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2DFJGUKfaI
 

Mark Nankivil

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Good Day All -

A few bits of paper on the BD-10 from the Promotional Brochure.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Foo Fighter

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Having read a little more about Bede, I am highly surprised that he went on for as long as he did, seemingly spinning one set of tall tales on top of another. Just how many were caught in this trap and ripped of thousands of dollars? Just what is the true potential of these aircraft?
 

Dynoman

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In Jim Bede's defense I don't think he was trying to sell ideas and run off with the deposits. I think he was legitimately trying to design light aircraft that pilot's could afford without mortgaging their homes. If you look at each of the Bede designs they were marketed as relatively low cost, minimal labor, homebuilt designs that were a little more exciting than what was on the market. I think his primary problem was that he lacked the finances or backing to be sustainable, especially in an era when kit plane designs flooded the market place.

An aircraft like the BD-10 was not an aircraft that your typical homebuilt aircraft builder could assemble. In fact a company was started just to become a 'builders assist' company to help you build the BD-10. Unfortunately, even after further testing it was found the parts of the structure (vertical stabilizer spar) was inadequately designed and built, and that 'fixes' for those discrepancies also proved inadequate leading to the builders-assist company owner's death. In this case I believe that Bede was designing an aircraft that needed a higher order of engineering and test capability that was outside of his own ability. But then again, if you look at the history of aircraft manufacturing, many large prime contractors even have been fraught with accidents due to design flaws.
 

Foo Fighter

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The impression is that Jim Bede and his company were making claims that could not be achieved, and of kits being ready with no such kits existing and no agreements to supply material for the level of kits being advertised. With the build/structural problems coming to light on the interweb, how did he get the go ahead to release the product? Perhaps there is a need for a greater involvement by the NTSB when any new products are promoted. How would the structure of the BD-10 have stood up to mach 1.4 as the aircraft is claimed to be able to achieve?
 

Motocar

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Article published in the magazine Popular Mechanics December 1989
 

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Foo Fighter

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede_BD-10

Endex.
 

Maury Markowitz

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Foo Fighter said:
The impression is that Jim Bede and his company were making claims that could not be achieved
One can say that about practically every design of Bede's. Remember when the BD-5 was supposed to do 210 mph on 40 hp and be able to be built in your garage in a few weekends and flown by anyone? Or the Bede Car that was supposed to get 120 mpg?

There used to be a web site by someone who worked on the Bede Litestar. He told some hair-raising stories. If I find it I'll post a URL.
 

Motocar

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Bede Car only for illustrate, shared from:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RetroFuturism/comments/5kzny3/bede_car_new_hope_for_america/
 

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RAP

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walter

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Hi Hesham!
The BD-7 was built as prototype. Some info and a photo.
2-4 seat sport
N7BD: one 200hp Lycoming IO-360-A1A piston engine
max. speed 220 mph, cruise 190 mph, icr 1,500ft/minute, ceiling 25,000ft, range 1,000 miles
wingspan 24ft; length 20.5ft; height 7.5ft
DETAILS: The BD-7 had the same basic external configuration as the BD-5 Micro and was planned to be available as a 2-4-seater, depending on the engine(s) installed. The prototype (N7BD) of the all-metal construction BD-7 was a four-seater with one 200hp Lycoming IO-360 and was first flown in December 1976. The wing design was largely based on that of the high wing BD-4. The test programme was halted when the Bede Aircraft company collapsed, and further development was then abandoned and the prototype made only few flights. Production aircraft were planned with either one 210hp Continental IO-360, Lycoming IO-360 or two coupled Zenoah two-stroke engine of 75 hp each (installed side-by-side and driving a reduction unit).
Production: 1
 

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hesham

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From Aviation magazine 1971.
 

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riggerrob

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The impression is that Jim Bede and his company were making claims that could not be achieved, and of kits being ready with no such kits existing and no agreements to supply material for the level of kits being advertised. With the build/structural problems coming to light on the interweb, how did he get the go ahead to release the product? Perhaps there is a need for a greater involvement by the NTSB when any new products are promoted. How would the structure of the BD-10 have stood up to mach 1.4 as the aircraft is claimed to be able to achieve?
NTSB is the wrong agency to supervise a production airplane. Normally, NTSB only gets involved after a crash. NTSB is more likely to be involved in investigating a locomotive crash or ship sinking.
You really wan the certification and production side of the FAA, but they generally avoid invovlment with amateur-built aircraft.
 

Foo Fighter

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Thanks mate. Considering the potential for dropping one of these on a residential area, perhaps they need to sort something out.
 

Dynoman

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Bede Designs

BD-1
BD-2
XBD-2
BD-3 (Based on XBD-2, Unbuilt)
BD-4B
BD-4C
BD-5A (Composite with a V-tail)
BD-5B
BD-5C
BD-5D (Unbuilt)
BD-5G
BD-5J (Jet version)
BD-5S (Sailplane)
BD-5T (Turboprop powered)
BD-6
BD-7
BD-8
BD-9 (Ultralight)
BD-10
BD-11 (Proposed 6 place BD-5J)
BD-12/14
BD-16 (Proposed 6 place version of BD-4)
BD-17
BD-17L
BD-18 (Two place development of BD-1)
BD-22
BD-22L
HB-1 (Ultralight)
BeDe-Wing (Hang glider)
Litestar motorcycle
BD Training Truck System
BD-Car

Additional descriptions:
 
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Dynoman

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Bede training simulator
 

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