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AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)

wjkuleck

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Supposedly the AX design was based on earlier tilt-wing work e.g. the Model 147 proposed to AAFSS (AH-56 Cheyenne requirement). It was not tilt-wing however.
That is correct. I was an engineer working on the Boeing-Vertol A-X competitor. While it had cross shafting connecting the two rotors it was not a tilt-wing. If one engine failed, without cross-shafting there wouldn't be a vertical tail big enough (pardon the hyperbole) to keep the aircraft stable. We had blown flaps that could be used to tighten turns in addition to aiding STOL. My assignment, had the A-X become the A-9 or A-10, was to refine the blown flap in the Boeing Seattle transonic wind tunnel

I'll keep an eye out for the images I was able to retain.

Regards,

Walt
 

overscan

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Walt, great info, and thanks for joining the forum.
 

Stargazer2006

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wjkuleck said:
I'll keep an eye out for the images I was able to retain.
Really looking forward! Thanks for the offer and welcome to this forum. :)
 

Triton

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According to Convair Advanced Designs II: Secret Fighters, Attack Aircraft, and Unique Concepts by Robert E Bradley (Crecy Manchester: 2013), this is the Convair Model 100 Super COIN. The Super COIN was based on the Air Force's desire to replace the Douglas A-1E Skyraider with a new aircraft circa 1966. Convair used the unofficial designation "A-8A" on the base of concept models of the Model 100. According to Bradley, it is not known if this concept design was self-funded or funded by the United States Air Force or if the A-8A designation was also used by the Air Force. Bradley makes it seem as though there were two programs named A-X in the 1960s, the first was intended as a direct A-1E Skyraider replacement and a later program that resulted in the A-10 program of the early 1970s. The first recorded use of A-X is believed to be 1967 with the Douglas Model 206.








Source:

The final design in the proposed prototype program had a wingspan of 45 feet 10 inches, a length of 39 feet, and was configured as either a single or two-place airplane with zero-zero ejection capability. The turboprop engines considered were the 4,050hp Allison T-56-A7A and the GE 3,060hp CT64-820 (T-64). The basic (empty) weight of the T56-powered airplane was 17,300 lbs and the Design Gross Weight (takeoff weight) was 29,800 lbs, including 6,000lbs of external ordnance. The T-64 version was 15.395lbs and 26.350lbs respectively. These engines would drive a 13.5 foot fiberglass propeller.

The Model 100 offered two-hour loiter time at a 250 mile radius and a cruise speed of 320mph. It included a variety of survivability features including a heavily armored engine and cockpit area, duplicate components, fuel fire and explosion protection and failsafe structure design.
Bradley, pp. 250-251
 
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Mark Nankivil

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Good Day All -

On EPay at the moment is this nice A-9A model:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTHROP-A-9A-VINTAGE-AVIATION-COLLECTOR-COMPANY-DESPLAY-MODEL-/281679698534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41956b1a66

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Kiltonge

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Couldn't really find a better thread for this.

Attached comparison of some metrics between the GE candidate for GAU-8 and the Hughes GAU-9 ( Oerlikon 304 RK / KCA ).

Not included in the data, having already been rejected, was the Ford GAU-8 candidate which averaged just 728 MRBF, worse than the single-barrel Oerlikon.

I also found a reference on DTIC to a 304 RK cartridge marked 1955, much older than has generally been attributed to that weapon. That round provided the basis of the round developed by Aerojet for GE, with a change to copper driving bands and push-in percussion primer.

Hughes, being the low-risk insurance option, adopted the 304 RK round with iron driving bands and retained the screw-in electrical priming of the Swiss original.

Ford and their ammunition subcontractor Honeywell developed a new round adhering to the USAF's proposed dimensions and with an aluminium case and plastic driving bands, which was technically well advanced compared to the GE round. But GE refused to modify their cannon or round to the proposed common standard and also ignored the requirement for an aluminium case. Eventually, having won the cannon competition, they were persuaded to adopt the plastic bands which tripled barrel life.
 

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Avimimus

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Anyone have an idea what the giant wing pods on the Lockheed design were?
 

Firebee

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Avimimus said:
Anyone have an idea what the giant wing pods on the Lockheed design were?

See post #8 on the first page. They were for the main gear, as in the final A-10 design.
 

SpudmanWP

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They are a lot longer than is needed for the gear (looking at stowed wheel position). I wonder what else they had in mind (sensors, lights, etc).
 

Firebee

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I thought the same thing. Also, I thought perhaps alternate main gear? Dual-axle, skis, even tracks a la the B-36 tests? Unless we have more drawings, who knows?
 

hesham

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Better versions of the Lockheed AX project drawings (L-1400)
And from Le Fana 384.
 

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hesham

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Nice drawings,thank you Alanqua.
 

hesham

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Ron Downey has posted a copy of the Northrop A-9 Flight Manual over at http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2017/06/northrop-9a-flight-manual.html
Nice find my dear Paul.
 

Pioneer

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Thank's Alanqua, I've always been intrigued by the Lockheed proposal, and have only seen the tiny and unreadable schematic drawings.
These drawings of yours are great!!

Regards
Pioneer
 

RAP

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Very nice Craig. Thanks!
 

Pioneer

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aim9xray said:
From eBay, I think?
Looks very interesting aim9xray, but can't ascertain design/designation :-[

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Pioneer
 

aim9xray

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Hesham - judging from the "Willis" [Hawkins] and "Kelly" [Johnson] inscription, I'd say that this is a "CL-1400" or "L-1400" alternate point design for A-X from Lockheed. I should also point out that I don't have the original item, just the .jpg.
 

hesham

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aim9xray said:
Hesham - judging from the "Willis" [Hawkins] and "Kelly" [Johnson] inscription, I'd say that this is a "CL-1400" or "L-1400" alternate point design for A-X from Lockheed. I should also point out that I don't have the original item, just the .jpg.
OK and thank you.
 

Pioneer

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Hesham - judging from the "Willis" [Hawkins] and "Kelly" [Johnson] inscription, I'd say that this is a "CL-1400" or "L-1400" alternate point design for A-X from Lockheed.
Ok, looking at picture on a larger PC screen (as opposed to mobile phone screen), the picture is much more relevant - and much more intriguing aim9xray! :eek:

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Pioneer
 

alanqua

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Hello,
Thanks to many of you for your compliments about my drawings.
I wanted to do them in more details and with colored plans and nice effects, but I did not have the time.
Now that this topic has emerged, my desire to depict those Lockheed AX projects is increasing. I hope to find time (and willingness) to start this. Maybe I could suggest this to Le Fana de l'Aviation!
Regards
Alain
 

overscan

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And now, a copy of the A-9 Pilot's notes:

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2017/06/northrop-9a-pilots-briefing-notes.html
 

Mark Nankivil

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Hi All -

Love it when we get a new donation at the Museum as you never know what you'll find. A donation yesterday had artwork for the McAir design and an interesting memo about McAir assisting, (well, at least discussing) with Boeing-Vertol on their A-X design. McAir never really put in much effort on the proposal so seeing this memo is interesting. File size is too big - will see if Overscan can add it to this thread.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Pioneer

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Going by that fantastic McAir artwork, Mark, I must say I'm impressed by it's rugged workman-like landing gear!

Thank's for sharing mate!

Regards
Pioneer
 

overscan

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Mark Nankivil said:
McAir never really put in much effort on the proposal so seeing this memo is interesting.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
McAir put in effort on the 1967 concept formulation study contract but not for the 1970 AX RFP (probably too busy on FX).
 

Gruber

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Hi there first post in here but I have been lurking for a couple of years. Going back to the Northrop A-9 I have not seen any pictures of the gun cradle that is mentioned in some publications. Does anybody have any pictures of the actual gun installation?

Thanks in advance
 

hesham

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Gruber said:
Hi there first post in here but I have been lurking for a couple of years. Going back to the Northrop A-9 I have not seen any pictures of the gun cradle that is mentioned in some publications. Does anybody have any pictures of the actual gun installation?

Thanks in advance
I will search Gruber.
 

alanqua

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Hello,

I'm looking for more informations on the Boeing project proposal for the AX program (the one with the YA-10). Does anybody have illustrations, 3 views plans or something else to help me? The only ilustration I have so far is the following (see in attachment).

Thanks for help.
Regards
Alain
 

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stimpy75

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is there a book on this competition and if yes,name of book/author?
thx in advance
 

Pioneer

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Mark's memo is attached as PDF.

Note Boeing had 2 teams on this:

Boeing (Seattle) management discontinued the West Coast A-X effort using [turbo]fans on 16 July, and expressed confidence in Vertol's A-X configuration.
Wow, nice find and very interesting read thank you Mark Nankivil
Found it very interesting as to how much time and resources went into FOD and the cross-shaft redundancy (including cost estimates over the lifetime of the aircraft), and the perceived benefit of propeller over turbofan!

Fascinating

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Pioneer
 

Mark Nankivil

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Good Day All -

Pretty much the Vought design in Post #78....

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Mark Nankivil

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And another variant with a unswept wing and a slightly different engine nacelle set up. Note the substantial tailhook, not shown on the swept wing version.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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