Austro-Hungarian WW I Projects and Prototypes

This is what Retribution and Recovery: German Aircraft and Aviation 1919 to 1922, by Lennart Andersson and Ray Sanger, Air Britain, 2014 says on this topic:

Brandenburg
Two UFAG-built Brandenburg flying boats were delivered to the US Navy. Austrian s/n K.405 (US Navy s/n A5806), a W.13 and K.248 (A5807). On 30 August 1919, two American officers had inspected the Austrian naval air station at Puntisella and had selected a number of aircraft for shipment to the USA. The Brandenburg flying boats arrived in Philadelphia in December 1919, were assembled by the Naval Aircraft Factory and were test flown there. A5806 was fitted with a Liberty engine in place of the original Austro-Daimler and both were used for 'experiments and study'. A5806 was written off in June 1922 and A5807 in March 1924.

In April 1920, another six former Austro-Hungarian Navy aircraft were shipped to the United States and the US Navy serial numbers A6049 to A6054 were reserved for them. Eventually, they were not found worth putting into flying condition. This shipment included two Lohner flying boats, an Oefflag, a UFAG, a Phonix Mickl and a Hansa-Brandenburg W.18 (Austrian s/n A-87). All were written off in September 1921. [Elsewhere in the listing these 1920 acquisitions are identified as Lohner S s/n S-26, Lohner TL s/n R-9, UFAG TL s/n L-126 and Phonix Mickl s/n A-125]
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No photo is provided. The fact only A5806 is positively identified as a W.13, leaves open the identity of A5807.
Certainly it seems, as Aubi speculated, that the NAF did some work on these two aircraft to make them airworthy and with A5806 receiving a new engine, it opens the question whether A5807's engine is original and if the tail surfaces at least were rebuilt. Since the majority of the other booty went to the USAAS, its possible that an engine was used from one of the 1920 shipment may of been fitted at some point.
 
In the same source from which hesham took the picture of the flying boat, there is a reference to the fact that it is a flying boat Lohner Type K.
 
Maveric said:
In the same source from which hesham took the picture of the flying boat, there is a reference to the fact that it is a flying boat Lohner Type K.
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Maybe Jos Heyman could weigh in here? In his pdf, Jos said "... some reference sources suggest that A-5807 was a Lohners K."

The problem, as noted earlier, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that Lohner actually built the Typ K. Most Typ Ks were built by UFAG with only ten or so airframes built between Oeffag and Phönix.

Hood: Thanks for that. So, A5806's original engine was as Austro-Daimler which was replaced with a Liberty. But we still don't know the engine type(s) for A5807.
 
Maveric: Yes, it is written under the picture. And it is wrong, in a way (At least I think it is). Lohner didn't made any K-type flying boats. But it's modified Type L was built in Germany as Hansa-Brandenburg FB, which was in turn manufactured in licence by UFAG, together with similar but larger Ernst Heinkel-developed Hansa-Brandenburg W.13. UFAG-made Brandenburg FB used designations K 203 - K 250 and as proved by the first picture I posted, at least some used those pesky V-shaped struts. K 184 seems also to be FB, from German delivery.
It is NOT a Hansa-Brandenburg W.13, which had completely different tail, nor Lohner, altough it is a Lohner's offspring.
Photographed machines with this struts are K 210, K 212, K 216 and K 231 (with badly visible tail but somewhat similar to our mystery machine).

Sadly good sources on Austro-Hungarian aviation are hard to get.
 
Thanks for sharing. What a beauty.:) Nose mark and float shape are interesting.
 
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Some 1/72 model pictures. The pilot position of this aircraft was same as Lloyd 40.05 fighter.
scalemodels.ru

Самодел 1/72 Lloyd 40.08 Luftkreuzer : 1/72 : Статьи

Доброго дня! Давным- давно на заре двадцатого века люди начали активно осваивать новый вид развлечения-назывался он воздухоплавание. Подсобрав кое-какой маломальский опыт в воздухоплавании, люди как это часто бывает стали спорить, ругаться и доказывать
scalemodels.ru scalemodels.ru
"The primary stumbling block to the evolution of an effective fighter aircraft was the inability to fire into the forward arc without losing a propeller. Until the machine gun synchronization was invented, various aircraft manufacturers tried of solutions including pusher engine configuration attaching metal plates to the propeller, firing sideways, mounting a machine gun on the upper wing to fire over the arc of the prop, etc. None of these stop-gap measures proved to be the optimal method to achieve the goal of creating a truly efficient fighter-craft.The Lloyd Company designers tried a radically different approach to solve the problem. In 1915 they designed a two seat aircraft designated FJ (Flugzeugjäger) and received the Austro-Hungarian Air Force designation 40.05.
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I think the old pilots were really great, too. Some pilots were taking off and landing just by checking the scenery up, down, left and right. Lindbergh did, too.
Also the designer who designed such a aircraft was super.
spirit-st-louis-ryan-n-y-p-4-view-american-modeler-june-1957-2500x1613.jpg
 
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Sorry I forget that Spirit of St. Louis RYAN N-Y-P had a periscope.

I have seen a night view of Paris like Lindbergh saw from an Alitalia airliner flying from Charles de Gaulle to Milan. At first I thought there was some country tower, but it was the Eiffel Tower. Then I saw the Arc de Triomphe and the Champs-Elysées clearly. The cabin was very exciting.
 
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You beat me to this, but in the case of fighter aircraft, such a persicope probably wouldn't have restored,
what is now called "situational awareness". And IIRC, "intercom" back then was limited to speaking tubes, or
to handwritten notes, even in two seaters, with pilot and observer/gunner placed relatively close to each other.
 
All info from:

Phönix D.IV (20.24):

Max speed, 115 mph (185 km/h).
Time to 3,280 ft (1 000m), 2.0 min.
Empty weight, 1,466 lb (665 kg).
Loaded weight, 2,094 lb (950 kg).
Span, 27 ft 10 2/3 in (8,50 m).
Length, 21ft 7 4/5 in (6,60 m).
Height, 9 ft 6 1/8 in (2,90 m).
Wing area, 252.96 sq ft (23,50 m2).

1596842189540.png

Testing of the two different prototypes (20.24 with a 230hp Hiero engine and 20.25 with a 225hp Austro-Daimler engine) revealed amazing performance. This is not really surprising since all of the Phönix fighters (both single and two-seaters) had very good performance. Unlike the earlier Phönix types though, the D.IV had a different design. The evaluation that led to Austria-Hungary wanting to pursue the D.IV took place in July of 1918; nearing the wars end.
 
Hi! Additional information.
"Phönix Flugzeug-Werke led by Leo Kirste, not only designed the German albatross to meet LFT(K.u.K Luftfahrtruppen, Austro-Hungarian Imperial and Royal Aviation Troops) requirement, but also developed its own design.

20.01 : Install a Hiero engine on the Albatross B.I (Ph) multipurpose biplane

20.02-20.09 : experimental aircraft

20.10 : a twin-engine bomber

20.11-20.13 : 20.10 based projects?

20.14 : Experimental aircraft, which is the development of Brandenburg D.I (Ph) (designated 20.48) manufactured under license. One wing is smaller than the second wing in span and area, equipped with in-line liquid-cooled aircraft engines.

20.15-20.18 : Prototype based on Brandenburg D.I(Ph) and D.II (Ph). (20.15 ; prototype for D.Ⅰ, 20.16 : prototype for D.Ⅰ, 20.18 : prototype for D.Ⅱ)

20.19-20.21 : Assigned to two-seater biplane designed to perform reconnaissance and surveillance missions.

20.22-20.25 : Fighter prototype, the development of the Bendenburg.

The development of the last two aircraft in this series (prototype fighter aircraft 20.24 and 20.25) began by Leo Kirste at the end of 1917. Kirste's idea was to design fighters using "everything available at that time in the design and operation of fighters, using the latest knowledge and progress in these areas."

20.24(Phönix D.Ⅳ) : Powered by a Hiero H IV 6-cylinder inline engine (34/35 series) mounted on the fuselage's nose, demonstrating 230 horsepower during takeoff. (169 kW), rotated two-blade wooden propellers made by Warchalowski and Eissler & Co. From A.G. Vienna.

20.25 : Power plant was 6-cylinder Australian-Daimler AD 6 engine (23 series) manufactured by Daimler-Motoren A.G. (Wiener Neustadt), developed 225 horsepower. (166 kW) rotated a wooden two-blade propeller

A rectangular water radiator was installed above the central section of the upper wing (first, in prototype 20.24, the surface radiator was tested and installed on the upper surface of the central section of the upper wing). In prototype 20.25, the wing with thicker wings developed by Leokilste himself was also tested as an experiment.

Both prototypes were completed in May 1918 and tested at the plant in June. In July, the aircraft was dispatched to Aspern to participate in an official test conducted by Flare. During the test, most of the flights were conducted by Captain Fiara, They praised the vehicle and recommended only a few small changes.

During testing in 20.24, a completely new electric mirror site was tested. The test was held until August 1918. By this time, the Danube monarchy began to collapse. The economic collapse was rapidly approaching, followed by the military collapse of Austria and Hungary. Continuous production of aircraft never started On the last day of October 1918 - Austria - Hungary - LFT officially adopted both prototypes and made payments, but the plane no longer flew."

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/phonix2024.html
 

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Hi!
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/blog/a-forgotten-few-austro-hungarian-fighters/
"The Phönix D.I-III
At the time that Phönix began licence production of the Brandenburg D.I, the company started to explore the potential of the so-called “Nieuport wing”, or sesquiplane. Although known to be weaker than a conventional lower wing, the sesquiplane design appeared to offer a number of compensating benefits, not least of which was an excellent field of view downwards for the pilot. Tests were made with a prototype aircraft adapted from a Brandenburg D.I. The forward fuselage was raised to the level of the upper wing, which was increased in area. Although this aircraft was soon crashed, it was rebuilt, as serial 20.14, and incorporated a redesigned fuselage. A second prototype, (serial 20.15), was constructed in parallel, fitted with a conventional lower wing and a 185hp engine, while a third, (serial 20.16), was fitted with a revised form of sesquiplane wing and a 200hp engine."

"In response to these criticisms, Phönix produced aircraft serial 20.18, which featured high-aspect ailerons, no wing dihedral, a revised tailplane, balanced elevators and a lighter airframe, all of which was designed to improve the aircraft’s manoeuvrability. A comparative trial on 19 December 1917 proved that, while the production D.I took 28 minutes to reach 16,405 feet, the new aircraft took only 19 minutes. Flars immediately ordered the aircraft into production as the Phönix D.II."

"Further modifications were made to the design and five prototypes were built for the July 1918 Fighter Evaluation held at Aspern, Vienna. The first three, (serials 20.22, 20.23 and 422.23), were revised versions of the D.II/D.IIa. The aim was to improve visibility for the pilot, the accessibility of the machine guns and the aircraft’s performance and poor manoeuvrability, a lack of which was the type’s Achilles heel.

As far as can be ascertained, the changes made were:
Serial 20.22: 230hp Hiero engine, ailerons fitted to both wings, seat raised and machine guns moved to within reach of pilot.
Serial 20.23: 225hp Daimler engine, upper wing “raised slightly” and machine guns moved to within reach of pilot.
Serial 422.23: ailerons fitted to both wings."

"The fourth and fifth aircraft at the Competition, serials 20.24 and 20.25, were completely different to the Phönix scouts, as the photograph of the former shows. The streamlined, veneer-covered fuselage recalled Albatros practice, while the narrow lower wing gave the pilot an excellent downward field of view. Neither aircraft was ready when inspected at the Competition, nor were any production contracts placed before the war ended."
 

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All info from:

Hansa-Brandenburg L.16:

Max speed, 118 mph (190 km/h).
Empty weight, 1,631 lb (740 kg).
Loaded weight, 2,061 lb (935 kg).
Span, 29 ft 6 1/3 in (9,00 m).
Length, 23 ft 7 7/8 in (7,21 m).
Height, 12 ft 1 2/3 in (3,70 m).
Wing area, 360.59 sq ft (33,5 m2).

1597598007910.png

The triplane was built during 1917, and it managed to achieve a speed of 190kph. For a triplane of WWI, this is pretty impressive. However, other elements of its performance were deemed unsatisfactory, and the design was not pursued. I remember reading somewhere (not sure exactly where) that the design was simply two heavy, and turning it into a biplane would have provided a massive performance boost. The design already achieved 190kph as a triplane, so as a biplane it probably could have been rivaling some of the fastest aircraft of WWI in terms of speed. It's a shame really; as a biplane this could have been among the top performing aircraft of the First World War.
 
Some interesting general background:
In the years before the First World War Austria-Hungary lagged behind the industrialized states of Western Europe as regards both economic performance and military expenditure. As a result the new field of military aviation had very modest funds at its disposal. However, the gradual development of the air force took place in a way that was similar to that in other states.
In 1893 the k. u. k. Militär-Aeronautische Anstalt (Imperial and Royal Military Aeronautical Establishment) was set up in the Arsenal complex in Vienna. Its activities centred on balloons and airships and in 1909 it was renamed the k. u. k. Luftschifferabteilung (Imperial and Royal Aeronautical Department). In the same year it moved to Fischamend near Vienna and a Militäraviatische Station (Military Aviation Station) was established at the airfield in Wiener Neustadt. In 1910 the first regular practice flights with military aircraft began, and the first invitations of tenders for the supply of aeroplanes to the army were advertised. From 1911 military pilots were trained in Wiener Neustadt and they could also gain their first practical experience within the framework of manoeuvres. It was also from 1911 that the Imperial and Royal marine aviators, who belonged to the Navy, set up their first naval air bases.
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I have found this three-engine bomber prototype from 1918. It is an Aviatik (Berg) design labeled 30.23 (possibly G.I?).
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Note the tri-engine configuration in the picture below.
1685300761821.png
There are version labeled 30., 30.23, 30.34, and 131.01. These are prototypes; I did not get a clear answer if the G.I designation was applied other than it "may have".

Credit to the above link for all the info. (Within the website there is also a link to a book with hundred of WWI images for Austro-Hungarian aircraft.)
 
The prototypes from the Österreichisch-Ungarisch Flugzeugfabrik Aviatik GmbH had a Bauart number in the 30. series.

30.23 was the three engined bomber prototype with 1 x Daimler 300 hp and 2 x Hiero 230 hp. Ordered end 1916 and flown only in March 1918.

30.34 was a second prototype, never completed. Different configurations, the last one with 3 x Hiero 230 hp.

131.01 - 131.29: Bauart numbers for the series built bombers based on the 30.23. Designation G.III. None completed before the end of the war.

Concerning G.I (and G.II) cfr. P.M. Grosz: "The Aviatik G.I and G.II have not been identified in LFT records. It is believed that these designations may have been reserved for the 30.23 and 30.34 prototype bombers after being removed from prototype stats and sent to the front for evaluation".

Sources:
- Grosz, Haddow, Schiemer - Austro-Hungarian Aircraft of World War One (1993)
- Keimel - Österreichs Luftfahrzeuge. Geschichte der Luftfahrt von den Anfängen bis Ende 1918 (1981)
- Keimel - Luftfahrzeugbau in Österreich. Von den Anfängen bis zur Gegenwart (2003)
 
Hi
 

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Sorry, that was my mistake. I meant, of course, a photo of the 30.34.
 
Airborne2001 said:

Авиатик G.I. Бомбардировщики Первой Мировой войны

military.wikireading.ru military.wikireading.ru
View attachment 702366
I found this picture of a Lohner bomber type. It's labeled as a G-type, though I'm not sure if it was finished far enough to have received that designation. Knowing Lohner designations, it also could have simply been the letter chosen for the design. Does anyone have anymore info on the plane?
Click to expand...

It was Aviatik design;

Aviatik GI

The industry of Austria-Hungary, contrary to popular belief today, was quite developed. Of course, it was inferior in terms of the degree of industrial development to Germany, but during the First World War, Austria-Hungary managed to build a large number of very good aircraft. Although Germany tried to dominate, trying to impose licensed production of its models on Austria-Hungary, the Austrian designers did not want to put up with this. Not a single German aircraft handed over for licensed production was thoughtlessly copied. The Austrians modified German vehicles, often greatly improving their combat value. Austrian aircraft engines were especially good: Daimler. Hiero and Steyr, which German designers did not disdain to use. The program for the creation of heavy and super-heavy aircraft, started by Count Zeppelin, inspired the Austrian General Staff to deploy a similar Austro-Hungarian program. Several Austrian firms - Aviatik, Lohner, Lloyd, Brandenburg - began to create multi-engine aircraft. Already at the beginning of 1915, the Aviatik company created a twin-engine three-seater aircraft equipped with 110 kW Daimler engines with pulling propellers. Designated B.II (No. 30.04), the aircraft was flown at Aspern airfield. The designer of the aircraft, which existed in a single prototype, was Richard von Mises, a well-known theorist and professor of aerodynamics at the University of Vienna. Von Mises managed to convince the Austrian authorities of the prospects of his work, and also proposed the creation of a super-heavy aircraft similar to the German machines of the R series. The designer was allocated substantial funds and subordinated the production department of the Hungarian branch of the Aviatik company in Esslingens. Von Mises chose a layout typical of most German designers, placing the engines in the fuselage and installing the propellers between the wings. To facilitate the design of the aircraft, he decided to equip the machine with only two engines that would rotate the propellers through a chain drive. The front engine turned a pair of pull screws, and the rear engine turned a pair of push screws. The aircraft had a wooden structure. The rectangular fuselage is partly sheathed in plywood, partly in fabric. In the nose of the fuselage there was a firing point: a Schwarzlose machine gun on a rotating machine. Another similar firing point was located in the rear of the fuselage, behind the wing. Under the leading edge of the wing was an open cockpit, equipped with two sets of controls. The fuselage passed half a meter above the lower wing. The wings are wooden, in three parts, with a slight elevation and a slight sweep. Ailerons on upper wing only. Fabric upholstery. Box-type tail unit with two horizontal stabilizers, three fins and two rudders. Wooden chassis in the form of two-wheeled carts. The aircraft was equipped with two V-shaped 12-cylinder Austro-Daimler liquid-cooled engines with a power of 220 kW. These engines were created in 1915 by engineer Ferdinand Porsche. The estimated bomb load was 500 kg, the bombs were hung under the fuselage. The prototype, designated DD Tour G (30.07), was flown on June 2, 1916 at Aspern Airfield by tester Hugon Sattler. After three flights, the prototype crashed. The cause of the disaster was a break in the chain drive of one of the propellers. The second prototype, which was being built at that time, was equipped with a rigid transmission with a shaft and gears. Also changed the design of the tail unit. The engine compartment in the fuselage was covered with a casing with numerous ventilation holes. In this form, the aircraft flew around on July 28, 1918 at the Wiener Neustadt airfield. After tests, during which some changes were made to the design of the aircraft, in February 1917 the aircraft was handed over to the military. There is no information about the combat use of the aircraft. Built in August 1916, the third prototype (30.18) was equipped with a streamlined external bomb bay. It was not possible to fly around the car. The DD Tour G aircraft were not mass-produced, since by the end of the war Austria-Hungary began to experience an acute shortage of raw materials.
 
It was indeed the Aviatik 30.07, also known as the Aviatik (Mises) G, as it was designed by Professor von Mises. It was known by its Bauart number 30.07, and was not designed G I. The 30.17 and 30.18 were variants with small modifications.

Once again the same sources:
- Grosz, Haddow, Schiemer - Austro-Hungarian Aircraft of World War One (1993)
- Keimel - Österreichs Luftfahrzeuge. Geschichte der Luftfahrt von den Anfängen bis Ende 1918 (1981)
- Keimel - Luftfahrzeugbau in Österreich. Von den Anfängen bis zur Gegenwart (2003)

These are trustworthy historians.
 
hesham said:
Airborne2001 said:

Авиатик G.I. Бомбардировщики Первой Мировой войны

military.wikireading.ru military.wikireading.ru
View attachment 702366
I found this picture of a Lohner bomber type. It's labeled as a G-type, though I'm not sure if it was finished far enough to have received that designation. Knowing Lohner designations, it also could have simply been the letter chosen for the design. Does anyone have anymore info on the plane?
Click to expand...

It was Aviatik design;

Aviatik GI

The industry of Austria-Hungary, contrary to popular belief today, was quite developed. Of course, it was inferior in terms of the degree of industrial development to Germany, but during the First World War, Austria-Hungary managed to build a large number of very good aircraft. Although Germany tried to dominate, trying to impose licensed production of its models on Austria-Hungary, the Austrian designers did not want to put up with this. Not a single German aircraft handed over for licensed production was thoughtlessly copied. The Austrians modified German vehicles, often greatly improving their combat value. Austrian aircraft engines were especially good: Daimler. Hiero and Steyr, which German designers did not disdain to use. The program for the creation of heavy and super-heavy aircraft, started by Count Zeppelin, inspired the Austrian General Staff to deploy a similar Austro-Hungarian program. Several Austrian firms - Aviatik, Lohner, Lloyd, Brandenburg - began to create multi-engine aircraft. Already at the beginning of 1915, the Aviatik company created a twin-engine three-seater aircraft equipped with 110 kW Daimler engines with pulling propellers. Designated B.II (No. 30.04), the aircraft was flown at Aspern airfield. The designer of the aircraft, which existed in a single prototype, was Richard von Mises, a well-known theorist and professor of aerodynamics at the University of Vienna. Von Mises managed to convince the Austrian authorities of the prospects of his work, and also proposed the creation of a super-heavy aircraft similar to the German machines of the R series. The designer was allocated substantial funds and subordinated the production department of the Hungarian branch of the Aviatik company in Esslingens. Von Mises chose a layout typical of most German designers, placing the engines in the fuselage and installing the propellers between the wings. To facilitate the design of the aircraft, he decided to equip the machine with only two engines that would rotate the propellers through a chain drive. The front engine turned a pair of pull screws, and the rear engine turned a pair of push screws. The aircraft had a wooden structure. The rectangular fuselage is partly sheathed in plywood, partly in fabric. In the nose of the fuselage there was a firing point: a Schwarzlose machine gun on a rotating machine. Another similar firing point was located in the rear of the fuselage, behind the wing. Under the leading edge of the wing was an open cockpit, equipped with two sets of controls. The fuselage passed half a meter above the lower wing. The wings are wooden, in three parts, with a slight elevation and a slight sweep. Ailerons on upper wing only. Fabric upholstery. Box-type tail unit with two horizontal stabilizers, three fins and two rudders. Wooden chassis in the form of two-wheeled carts. The aircraft was equipped with two V-shaped 12-cylinder Austro-Daimler liquid-cooled engines with a power of 220 kW. These engines were created in 1915 by engineer Ferdinand Porsche. The estimated bomb load was 500 kg, the bombs were hung under the fuselage. The prototype, designated DD Tour G (30.07), was flown on June 2, 1916 at Aspern Airfield by tester Hugon Sattler. After three flights, the prototype crashed. The cause of the disaster was a break in the chain drive of one of the propellers. The second prototype, which was being built at that time, was equipped with a rigid transmission with a shaft and gears. Also changed the design of the tail unit. The engine compartment in the fuselage was covered with a casing with numerous ventilation holes. In this form, the aircraft flew around on July 28, 1918 at the Wiener Neustadt airfield. After tests, during which some changes were made to the design of the aircraft, in February 1917 the aircraft was handed over to the military. There is no information about the combat use of the aircraft. Built in August 1916, the third prototype (30.18) was equipped with a streamlined external bomb bay. It was not possible to fly around the car. The DD Tour G aircraft were not mass-produced, since by the end of the war Austria-Hungary began to experience an acute shortage of raw materials.
Click to expand...
Tuizentfloot said:
It was indeed the Aviatik 30.07, also known as the Aviatik (Mises) G, as it was designed by Professor von Mises. It was known by its Bauart number 30.07, and was not designed G I. The 30.17 and 30.18 were variants with small modifications.

Once again the same sources:
- Grosz, Haddow, Schiemer - Austro-Hungarian Aircraft of World War One (1993)
- Keimel - Österreichs Luftfahrzeuge. Geschichte der Luftfahrt von den Anfängen bis Ende 1918 (1981)
- Keimel - Luftfahrzeugbau in Österreich. Von den Anfängen bis zur Gegenwart (2003)

These are trustworthy historians.
Click to expand...
I think you guys have mistaken what I was referring to. I am referring to an image that portrays a Lohner bomber design, not the Aviatik-Mises. It is stated to be a "G-type" (Bomber), but I have not been able to find any information on it outside of the original website that I found it from. Unfortunately said website only has the side image of it.
 
The drawing is indeed of the Lohner Type U 10.21 multi-seat battleplane, designed in 1914-15 with first flight 14 April 1916. Two 150 hp Daimler engines. Different modifications during testing. Written-off in October 1917. Keimel gives also the designation G I.
 

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