Anti-Balloon Missile

World B4

World B4

my bad y'all
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In the last century, lighter than air technology has been leveraged for a variety of military purposes. There is a need for a capability to engage the threat without doing what America does, which is use expensive stealth jets and air-to-air missiles, or what the Soviets did, which was design and build a dedicated balloon interceptor from scratch. Both are inefficient. Here are the characteristics that I think will make a good anti-balloon missile.

-Bladed warhead like the Hellfire variant for minimal debris and cost.
-Launch compatibility with older fighter jets available. No need for internal carriage capability
-Electro-optical guidance, to detect and impact the balloon
-Long storage life. Balloon performance parameters are pretty static, so it's reasonably future proof, which should be leveraged for cost efficiency.
-Cheap construction. You don't need a cutting edge rocket motor for a balloon, and cheap steel blades should be fine. Nor do you need a truly advanced seeker.

Or just do a reverse M-55: Strip a U-2 of its cameras and give it a few laser guided 70mm rockets.
 
Let me simplify this for you:

natewillcome4you said:
Or just do a reverse M-55: Strip a U-2 of its cameras and give it a few laser ...
Click to expand...
There. Done.

A relatively simple laser would be more than adequate to slice up a balloon. No need to waste rockets on it, rockets that will fall to Earth and hit something. The laser in this video (disregard the clickbaity title) is compact, powerful and off-the-shelf commercial. Give it the ability to aim, tinker with the focusing system, then fly by the balloon in a U-2R with a pod-mounted laser, taking potshots as you go.
 
What we really want is a missile that flies up to the balloon and hovers next to it. Then a hatch opens up to reveal a hand holding a large pin. That then leans out of the missile and pierces the balloon in a gentlemanly manner, allowing it to descend to the ground slowly.

Bonus points if it looks like Marvin the Martian firing an Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator. Everyone on the ground says "Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-Shattering Kaboom!"
 
Orionblamblam said:
Let me simplify this for you:

natewillcome4you said:
Or just do a reverse M-55: Strip a U-2 of its cameras and give it a few laser ...
Click to expand...
There. Done.

A relatively simple laser would be more than adequate to slice up a balloon. No need to waste rockets on it, rockets that will fall to Earth and hit something. The laser in this video (disregard the clickbaity title) is compact, powerful and off-the-shelf commercial. Give it the ability to aim, tinker with the focusing system, then fly by the balloon in a U-2R with a pod-mounted laser, taking potshots as you go.
Click to expand...
A laser feels a little less than simple, at least for the near future on a relatively light aircraft
 
natewillcome4you said:
A laser feels a little less than simple, at least for the near future on a relatively light aircraft
Click to expand...
Prepare to be surprised. The laser in this video (ignore the silliness of the title) is a commerical off-the-shelf item that can weld steel and the guy uses it to chop down trees. In its basic configuration is does substantial insta-damage at a range of a few meters. The same mounts that are used to train lasers on ground targets for LGBs can probably be retasked for this thing... mount a laser turret at the front of a TR-1A pod, one at the rear, zap a balloon as you fly by. You don't need to do much damage to mess up the envelop. A one-meter slash would bring the exercise to a quick end.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXeeRgEY2UE&
 
GREAT idea. Ummm. But before you proceed, why don't you prepare a FMECA/risk report on this. I'd be particularly interested on laser effects (ROM only) on objects behind the balloon (possibly quite some distance away); and peacetime/wartime protocols. Oh, and you really need to get those TPS reports turned in...

Me? I'm going to watch Real Genius again.
 
aim9xray said:
GREAT idea. Ummm. But before you proceed, why don't you prepare a FMECA/risk report on this. I'd be particularly interested on laser effects (ROM only) on objects behind the balloon
Click to expand...
...Laser beam have zero penetration power. All the energy would be spent heating the surface of balloon.
 
"Polyethylene (PE) is a thermoplastic commonly referred to as a polyolefin. Some of the common forms of polyethylene are: HDPE, LDPE, LLPE, MDPE, and UHMW. Polyethylene can be processed with a 9.3 or 10.6 micron CO2 laser without an appreciable difference in process quality. Polyethylene does not readily absorb the energy of a 1.06 micron fiber laser. Cutting of polyethylene can be performed with a CO2 laser to produce a clean non-discolored cut with a slight raised edge near the point of ablation. Laser engraving and laser marking of polyethylene are possible using a CO2 laser. However, due to the relatively low melting point of polyethylene, laser marking and engraving can lead to localized melting and a non-uniform surface at the point of laser interaction."

"Nylon is a generic name referring to a series of thermoplastic aliphatic polyamides. Some common formulations are nylon-6 and nylon-6,6. Laser processing of nylon can be performed with a 9.3 or 10.6 micron CO2 laser. Nylon does not readily absorb the energy from the 1.06 micron fiber laser and is not recommended for this material. Laser cutting of nylon with a CO2 laser produces a clean edge with minimal melting along the cut path. Laser engraving of nylon is also possible with a CO2 laser and results in a clean mark with limited melt-back at the point of ablation."

https://www.ulsinc.com/materials/polyethylene
 
Only when employed and deployed on sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

Now then, design me a U-2R with shark pods...
 
aim9xray said:
Only when employed and deployed on sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

Now then, design me a U-2R with shark pods...
Click to expand...
Sorry, as I am an Illinois resident I can only offer ill-tempered sea bass with airsoft pistols hanging under a Cessnas wings.
 
Would you believe a ... Weedhopper with a dyspeptic koi under the wing? No? Sorry about that, Chief.
 
aim9xray said:
GREAT idea. Ummm. But before you proceed, why don't you prepare a FMECA/risk report on this. I'd be particularly interested on laser effects (ROM only) on objects behind the balloon (possibly quite some distance away); and peacetime/wartime protocols. Oh, and you really need to get those TPS reports turned in...

Me? I'm going to watch Real Genius again.
Click to expand...
Fly the aircraft at a lower altitude than the balloon. With a stratospheric balloon, the aircraft carrying the laser can comfortably be above air traffic. The laser wouldn't need to be effective at slant ranges more than about 60,000 feet, so minimal risk to satellite traffic, but if you're really worried about it you can probably deconflict.
 
Unmanned plane with a tail hook to do a snag and drag?

Extending tail hook attached to ballistic parachute.

Stinger left behind.

As plane pulls away a big chute deploys even as the balloon’s envelope is torn asunder. Better for recovery. Cheaper than the balloon.

Maybe a rawinsonde snag-device dropped from NASA’s big wing Canberra for the higher ones.

What was the longest cable dragged aloft by aircraft? Grappling hook with quick release anvil if you want to go ACME.
 
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More seriously I have been thinking about the Fulton Recovery System. That's the one seen at the end of Thunderball where Bond gets lifted from the ground by a B-17 that catches a cable linked to a balloon. He would then get pulled inside the aircraft.
en.wikipedia.org

Fulton surface-to-air recovery system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There's a few problems here:

1 You need a C-17 or C-130 to climb to 60,000+ feet. Their public max altitude is 45,000ft. Crew would need oxygen masks too.
2 The Fulton system was last used in 1996.
3 You need to be sure of catching the very short cable.
4 The balloon will be very close to the fuselage and risks blocking the engine.
5 How to burst said balloon? Crew with shot gun!
6 Getting the payload into the aircraft.


Seems to me that a high altitude drone that could lock onto the balloon cable in the right spot, burst/release the balloon and at a lower altitude release a parachute to guide the payload to a soft landing on an airbase would be ideal.

But did China plan to recover this balloon or was it a (blow away;)) throw away device? It would need a controlled gas release valve to bring the balloon down steadily and a parachute for the final drop.
 
Nick said:
What we really want is a missile that flies up to the balloon and hovers next to it. Then a hatch opens up to reveal a hand holding a large pin. That then leans out of the missile and pierces the balloon in a gentlemanly manner, allowing it to descend to the ground slowly.

Bonus points if it looks like Marvin the Martian firing an Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator. Everyone on the ground says "Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-Shattering Kaboom!"
Click to expand...
I'm sure that something like that is offered in the catalogue of the Acme Corporation
 
what about use of a napalm type liquid spread over part of the top of the balloon ? (subject to wind conditions on dispersal though)
 
All of the ideas here that don't involve relatively intact recovery of the payload are undesirable.

The F22-plus-Sidewinder method at least resulted in payload recovery.

Some national security commentators have said that the national security value of the payload analysis will far exceed the cost of the operation.
 
Why bother with the U-2? HALE-type UAV with a laser; it could basically stay up there for-ever
 
I suggest the RPS or Rocket Propelled Spear. I mean it's not like the balloon is going to outmaneuver the aircraft.
 
You don't just want to hole it-but tear the envelope. A rocket that leaves its tailfin as a barb...submunitions...dangles a line for recovery? Two fired side by side using a common nozzle that splits for a modern chain shot.
 

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