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Almaz-Antey S-500 Prometheus / 55R6M Triumphator-M / System 98Zh6M1

sferrin

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"The S-500 is going to be a mobile ABM/ASAT system, hence the exo-atmospheric intercept capability."

How much of that will it have? What kind of range would it have?
 

flateric

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"it's a 10-15 years of imprisonment question"
 

sferrin

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flateric said:
"it's a 10-15 years of imprisonment question"
So take one for the team. ;)
 

SOC

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flateric said:
"it's a 10-15 years of imprisonment question"
Bah. It's a math question. Give me some time to dig out the right equations and crunch some numbers and I can tell you what kind of reach and range it'll have to have based on what kinds of satellites they want to hit. As long as you aren't trying to hit the really distant targets you comparatively don't need too much performance.
 

sferrin

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SOC said:
flateric said:
"it's a 10-15 years of imprisonment question"
Bah. It's a math question. Give me some time to dig out the right equations and crunch some numbers and I can tell you what kind of reach and range it'll have to have based on what kinds of satellites they want to hit. As long as you aren't trying to hit the really distant targets you comparatively don't need too much performance.
So the S-500 will be an anti-satellite weapon? Hadn't heard that before this thread.
 

SOC

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Yes, that's been stated various times. This is speculation, but logically it's going to have to be a big missile, meaning it will probably not be effective against something like an F-22A. An E-3, maybe, but anything more maneuverable is not going to represent a cooperative target.
 

sferrin

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SOC said:
Yes, that's been stated various times. This is speculation, but logically it's going to have to be a big missile, meaning it will probably not be effective against something like an F-22A. An E-3, maybe, but anything more maneuverable is not going to represent a cooperative target.
Is it going to be both anti-aircraft and anti-missile using the same missile or is it a system of missiles like S-300/400?
 

flateric

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system of missiles
external differences from S-400 said to be not so dramatic
 

SOC

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Depends. You can use the same interceptor for the ABM and ASAT roles. If they're going to give it very long-range S/A capability as well, it'll probably incorporate the 40N6. If I had to guess, I'd say the ABM/ASAT interceptor would likely be related to one of the GAZELLE follow-on projects.

Beyond that, the TEL may be based on the S-400's 5P85T2, but the radar is not going to be able to be a GRAVE STONE modification, not if you're getting ABM and ASAT capability out of the system. Or, they could use a GRAVE STONE for S/A work, and link into the PILL BOX and BMEW systems for the rest of it. THere's also the Mars radar system, looks like a modular FBX-T, that has been mentioned WRT the S-500, that might be what they use for the ABM/ASAT role.
 

Austin

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A short write up on S-500 system

S-500 Air & Space Defense System
http://austinstalk.blogspot.in/2016/05/s-500-air-space-defense-system.html
 

sferrin

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Sounds expensive.
 

Avimimus

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ABM systems generally are...


Btw. If you need manoeuvrability for your terminal interceptor - why not just go multi-stage?
 

sferrin

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Avimimus said:
ABM systems generally are...


Btw. If you need manoeuvrability for your terminal interceptor - why not just go multi-stage?
Just saying the cost equation is already leaning towards the attacker to a disturbing degree. This seems to take it to the next level.
 

bobbymike

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sferrin said:
Avimimus said:
ABM systems generally are...


Btw. If you need manoeuvrability for your terminal interceptor - why not just go multi-stage?
Just saying the cost equation is already leaning towards the attacker to a disturbing degree. This seems to take it to the next level.
And this cost disparity is on a lot of minds. CSBA released a 'Winning the Salvo Wars" paper

http://csbaonline.org/publications/2016/05/winning-the-salvo-competition-rebalancing-americas-air-and-missile-defenses/
 

Austin

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Avimimus said:
ABM systems generally are...


Btw. If you need manoeuvrability for your terminal interceptor - why not just go multi-stage?
It would well be multi-stage missile , while doing my own research on the topic they have mentioned seperating warhead for interceptor which in Russian could well mean two stage warhead
 

sferrin

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What is a, "two-stage warhead"?
 

Austin

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sferrin said:
What is a, "two-stage warhead"?
What ever they mean by warhead or just Google translation playing trick on Russian term.

It does not make sense to have a single stage missile , even the shirt range missile of A-135 series had 2 stage but that's just my thinking .
 

SOC

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One of those might be the S-400's TEL for the 40N6. If one is intended to be the S-500 TEL, it's missing the ECS.
 

sferrin

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SOC said:
One of those might be the S-400's TEL for the 40N6. If one is intended to be the S-500 TEL, it's missing the ECS.
I thought you were dead. ;) I take it then the 40N6 is not simply the standard sized S-400 "big missile" (48N6) flying a different profile but is instead a much larger missile? Any details you can spill?
 

SOC

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sferrin said:
I thought you were dead. ;)
Not dead, just gainfully employed! After I got hired I killed off the blog, and avoided a few forums until I figured out what and where I could participate without any sort of conflict of interest or whatnot.

sferrin said:
I take it then the 40N6 is not simply the standard sized S-400 "big missile" (48N6) flying a different profile but is instead a much larger missile? Any details you can spill?
Who knows. I still think that 40N6 being a misprint of 48N6 is possible, given that they got a 48N6 to 400 km during S-300PM testing. I've got a photo of an S-500 TEL with an ECS equipped, and given that there are two TELs in the above photos either a) one of them is for the 40N6, or b) they're two possible iterations that led to the S-500 TEL. Or c), they're totally speculative and any resemblance to the S-500 TEL is superficial. Current speculation is that the S-500 missile will draw on the 53T6/45T6, 40N6 on the 9M82.
 

Austin

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Good to have you back SOC.

Almaz Chief when asked about S-500 few years back mentioned it was A-135 on wheels :)

He might be referring to the capability provided by S-500 not the missile , The missile is certainly new from all the sound bytes we heard so far , Check my short write up on S-500

https://austinstalk.blogspot.in/2016/05/s-500-air-space-defense-system.html
 

sferrin

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