9M730 Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall) cruise nuclear-powered missile

Telemetry between the missile and the ground. During test flights.
Yeah, and maybe the keys from the house were the money are stored? (c, "Twelve chairs") Seriously, such data would obviously be top secret. What would be USA reaction for Russia or China saying "you know, we don't believe your claims about F-22 stealth capabilities, so could we see the detailed RCS data, please?"
 
If things get to the point of Burevestnik having to be used, there would be no satellites left to track in the first place.
If things get to the point of nuclear weapons having to be used, one cannot rely on the US air defense network being as weak and porous as it is today. While it is not possible to cover every square meter of American soil, covering every square meter of valuable terrain is very much possible.
 
We don't know if it's open or closed. Closed would be heavier by design.

It's a 2nd strike weapon designed to pierced Golden Dome by flying around the defenses, no matter how long and far it takes. And since we can't cover every inch of the US border at a reasonable cost, well we can't stop it.
The fact that the weapon is being live tested seems to indicate closed cycle.
 
While it is not possible to cover every square meter of American soil, covering every square meter of valuable terrain is very much possible.
Define "valuable terrain" and consider the fact, that American resources aren't limitless, and providing more or less throughout low-altitude defense even just for largest cities would be very costly.
 
Define "valuable terrain" and consider the fact, that American resources aren't limitless, and providing more or less throughout low-altitude defense even just for largest cities would be very costly.
Everything is very costly. Massively expanding ABM defenses, which is the scenario you quoted as being the intended one for the use of Burevestnik, would be (is?) very costly. If one has to necessarily go for a hypothetical scenario other hypotheticals cannot be excluded.
 
Musings on the theory....

In a nuclear exchange the action will take place in a matter of hours, and most of the conventional systems like AEW will be up for at best 8 hours more likely 4. Even with IFR we're not talk more than a day.

But once they land.... if there is anywhere to land, they will be unlikely to fly soon if in any numbers. Stocks of everything will have been used in increasingly desperate attempts to bring down attacking missiles.
This particularly for cruise missiles, bombers etc....

But a very long endurance missile, might simply cruise along and arrive many hours even a days later.
 
It seems possible the event and preparations for the event might have been observed. During the Cold War, both sides and ships and subs specifically designed to track telemetry data, since such signals were usually omnidirectional. But any such evidence of a test is extremely unlikely to be shared.
 
I'm just curious, what kind of "independent evidence" they expect? Satellite tracking, international monitoring data - from the weapon, that is designed to be unnoticeable and avoid being tracked? Seriously, this criticism make no sence.
Intelligence sources on the ground, launch and landing site activity.... heat signature from launch motor and missile. Telemetry intercept. Also curious as to where it flew 14,000km between unless it went round in a circle.
 
Intelligence sources on the ground, launch and landing site activity.... heat signature from launch motor and missile. Telemetry intercept. Also curious as to where it flew 14,000km between unless it went round in a circle.
The first is unlikely to exist with such a highly classified program. And there is probably a lot of data an telemetry available, just not for you and me and everyone else. The US has probably a rough idea of what went on there, but you won't read anything meaningful in the news.

As for flight, it probably flew a predetermined route, preferably over territory where an in-flight failure wouldn't cause much of a disturbance. I'm more interested if they recovered the missile or if it's flight saw it ultimately end up in the sea or a lake, there to be recovered or left, depending on the exact nature of the propulsion system and stage of the prototype.
 
The first is unlikely to exist with such a highly classified program. And there is probably a lot of data an telemetry available, just not for you and me and everyone else. The US has probably a rough idea of what went on there, but you won't read anything meaningful in the news.

As for flight, it probably flew a predetermined route, preferably over territory where an in-flight failure wouldn't cause much of a disturbance. I'm more interested if they recovered the missile or if it's flight saw it ultimately end up in the sea or a lake, there to be recovered or left, depending on the exact nature of the propulsion system and stage of the prototype.
Are you aware of the use of submarines in acquiring intelligence during the Cold War?

If not, I strongly recommend reading "Blind Man's Bluff"
 
But a very long endurance missile, might simply cruise along and arrive many hours even a days later.
That would be an interesting use case and would make it the epitome of a second strike weapon. It is certainly something I didn't consider in my prior comments. But even then, I'm unsure if large numbers of these missiles would be procured in the long run. Perhaps a small pool to be maintained just in case.
 
Intelligence sources on the ground, launch and landing site activity.... heat signature from launch motor and missile. Telemetry intercept. Also curious as to where it flew 14,000km between unless it went round in a circle.
Most likely it flew round in a circle, for example, around Novaya Zemlya archipelago - which is nuclear testing ground already, and so any kind of crash would not cause much problems.
 
You (and your followers, the usual suspects) are hyperbolic : there is no point discussing further. Typical ruzzia stronk mentality.
If I offended you I sincerely apologize, but I was merely sarcastic.

P.S. What kind of followers? I was under impression that this forum is for free discussion, not for some kind of fractionalizm, and peoples who "follow" someone are just the ones that agree with his arguments in this particular question.
 
probably a circle, its a pretty big country to test weapons like these.
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I would assume it simply did circles/racetracks over open water above the arctic circle. You would want no observers, no ground contamination in the event of failure, and low chance of opponent recovery (deep water) if it was not being recovered or if it had to abort before the desired splashdown point. Recovery seems dubious; impact almost certainly has a high risk of compromising containment in an extremely weight sensitive reactor solution.

We’re there any NOTAMs issued by Russia?
 
Addendum to the flight path discussion: the Russians would as much as practically possible want to keep the missile inside an instrumented ranged.
 
What radiation? The reactor own emission likely isn't powerful enough to be detected without some sensors very close to missile.
I still think the thermal signature would probably be substantial; anything short of 100% transfer to the exhaust is going to have to be dumped into the structure somewhere. You could perhaps be a little creative with which way a hot surface pointed, but the reactor heat has to go somewhere.
 
That would be an interesting use case and would make it the epitome of a second strike weapon. It is certainly something I didn't consider in my prior comments. But even then, I'm unsure if large numbers of these missiles would be procured in the long run. Perhaps a small pool to be maintained just in case.
Yes I suspect there is a particular target set that might be expected to survive in limited numbers. Due to defences and the 'depth' inland of such targets. Where there is a lot of scope for knocking down conventionally (nuclear armed) cruise missiles and sufficient defense against ballistic or hypersonic missiles.

Plus a series of otherwise distant and problematic targets that make it wasteful to attack by MIRVs. Since they're so far away from everything else. Southern Indian Ocean and Antarctica for example.

Such targets may not directly threaten the immediate exchange, but retain capability when everything else is reduced to rubble. A much longer term threat.
 

Skyfall Nuclear-Powered Cruise Missile Long-Range Test Claimed By Russia​

 
I think this missile has specific targets, for example supply bases in the Pacific or Atlantic Ocean. Using an ICBM to destroy a small island is too expensive, and since there is a desire to destroy it, it is therefore likely that using a cruise missile makes economic sense. There can't be strong air defenses there, especially against a cruise missile that, until now, did not exist. This could seriously disrupt the resupply of American forces, making it easier to conduct military operations in Eurasia. By the way, I read an interesting idea here that perhaps it is a tool to finish off military bases in North America, because it is unlikely anyone would expect another strike about ten hours after the start of World War III, when most detection systems would probably already be out of service. And to blanket the whole coastline with air-defense systems would be expensive even for the Pentagon, because there is no expected flight trajectory and there cannot be one — a strike could be launched from anywhere, including through Mexico. On the other hand, the device is rather unique and I don't think this missile will be cheap; its price might be comparable to a ballistic missile like an "Oreshnik" based somewhere in Kamchatka. Maybe simply producing more ballistic missiles would be cheaper, considering mass production and concentrating resources in one direction. In short — whether this makes sense, only history will tell.
 
And the military breakthrough here is what exactly?

Cruise missiles that can be launched on warning, and which can fly indefinitely over remote areas until summoned to hit their targets from any direction whatsoever, at any time*.

For the likes of UK and Western Europe that might be eastbound from the mid-Atlantic, through minimal defences. For the USA that could be straight up from South America, for example.

Finding them circling at low altitude over the vast Pacific would be 'challenging' and you'd need to find every one of them, just to be sure.

Just my take on it.

* Maybe they even have a failsafe that causes them to head to a preprogrammed target months or years after launch, if not over-ridden.
 
Cruise missiles that can be launched on warning, and which can fly indefinitely over remote areas until summoned to hit their targets from any direction whatsoever, at any time*.

For the likes of UK and Western Europe that might be eastbound from the mid-Atlantic, through minimal defences. For the USA that could be straight up from South America, for example.

Finding them circling at low altitude over the vast Pacific would be 'challenging' and you'd need to find every one of them, just to be sure.

Just my take on it.

* Maybe they even have a failsafe that causes them to head to a preprogrammed target months or years after launch, if not over-ridden.
The problem is that to me this sounds like something submarines already exist for.
 
And the military breakthrough here is what exactly?
Closed cycle nuclear jet engine. Previously the U.S. had done some work on an open cycle system, but it was all but impossible to test due to contamination. It seems like an incredibly expensive way to power a cruise missile but it certainly is a first.
 
I think this missile has specific targets, for example supply bases in the Pacific or Atlantic Ocean. Using an ICBM to destroy a small island is too expensive, and since there is a desire to destroy it, it is therefore likely that using a cruise missile makes economic sense.
Rather doubt that; the missile with reactor likely would cost more than just ICBM.

And the military breakthrough here is what exactly?
The capability of making low-altitude flight for transcontinental distances, quite literally sneaking below radar. And the capability of making the approach from any direction that enemy simply could not predict or cover.
 
It seems like an incredibly expensive way to power a cruise missile but it certainly is a first.
True. But strategic deterrence weapons usually are quite expensive. ICBM's and SLBM's are enormously costly methods of deliveing nuclear warheads; but they are very efficient for intended role, so the cost is considered reasonable.
 
The problem is that to me this sounds like something submarines already exist for.
The Russians have felt extremely threatened by U.S. ABM efforts and this along with Status 6 provide weapons that are immune to ABM defenses. I personally think it is a little ridiculous to think that any U.S. defensive effort could be effective enough to warrant such systems, but I suppose the threat would be some kind of huge, crash effort by the U.S. to deploy a vast ABM shield across the U.S. in the future along the lines of ‘Golden Dome’, only with an unlimited budget.
 
I personally think it is a little ridiculous to think that any U.S. defensive effort could be effective enough to warrant such systems, but I suppose the threat would be some kind of huge, crash effort by the U.S. to deploy a vast ABM shield across the U.S. in the future along the lines of ‘Golden Dome’, only with an unlimited budget.
There is additional factor - the territory of Russia is much more vulnerable to American first-strike, than visa versa. The fears, that USA could launch a sudden counter-force attack and reduce our nuclear arsenal to the level that could be handled by American anti-ballistic defense was a constant fear since 1980s.

It may not be possible (yet) to create anti-ballistic defense, that would be able to completely shield US territory from full-scale strike. But it's obviously possible to create anti-ballistic defense, that could intercept a small number of ICBM's and SLBM's, that would survive American first strike. And considering how many US military bases are around Russia - as well as NATO spread to the East - fear of such counter-force strike, being suddenly launched by either very fast or very stealthy weapons, is a constant factor of concern for Russia.

So the systems that would ensure retaliation even in worst-case scenario - American first strike was succsessfull, and American ballistic defense could handle a few surviving ICBM's - and thus make the first strike far less probable.
 
The Russians have felt extremely threatened by U.S. ABM efforts and this along with Status 6 provide weapons that are immune to ABM defenses. I personally think it is a little ridiculous to think that any U.S. defensive effort could be effective enough to warrant such systems, but I suppose the threat would be some kind of huge, crash effort by the U.S. to deploy a vast ABM shield across the U.S. in the future along the lines of ‘Golden Dome’, only with an unlimited budget.
I don't think it's as much a weapon as it's a signal that deterrence will stand.
I.e. it's a political message rather than some desired weapon capability (which of course can go boom if needed).

Interesting tech hedge for future aerospace (useless or not, it is first ever operational nuclear aircraft) being here perhaps the most useful actual deliverable.
Yawn. An aerial Status 6 or whatever. If something should just blow up out of nowhere and Putin hides a smirk under a shrug…kiss Moscow goodbye, the “old fashioned” way.
It's a subsonic cruise missile, rather clean one at that. As such, any random dude with gun can potentially bring it down (and certainly can report the overflight).

It isn't anything sneaky in a way that suddenly there's attack and no one understands where and how it came from. It's the literal opposite, and clearly this is intentional.
 
Depressed trajectory SLBMs and stealth bombers. Remember that Russia's space assets and radar fences aren't as good as the US.
I will admit perhaps a superior first strike mechanism but not to the degree that significant disarmament is a concern. If there was a time the U.S. could do that, it was in the 90s and early 2000s. And if there was a time to put China down with a nuclear war, it’s now or more probably a decade ago. The idea that the U.S. would engage in an offensive nuclear war seems rather paranoid given its history of not do that when it has a clear nuclear advantage, throughout most of the nuclear age, with the admitted exception of Japan. But they did pick that fight and were given options.
 

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