Sukhoi Su-57 flight testing and development

Hull down said:
A handful of Su-57s have performed a handful of combat sorties launching cruise missiles far beyond the line of contact because it is not capable of operating near or inside contested airspace. Nor do they have competent enough C2 to permit such operations.
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Risking F-35s doesn't have quite the same consequences as risking Su-57s does. Furthermore, conceding operations over the hostile ground isn't a su-57 specific measure, it's a broad VKS one, caused in no small part by the political backlash (tortured pilots).

In the su-57 case, it's further amplified exactly b/c there's only a handful, and they're the main bulwark against what's happening in Iran.

More importantly, risking the F-35s (which are purpose-built strike fighters) is more meaningful, as they're equipped for Precision strike/DEAD, and USAF/HH still have abundance of MALE drones.

Overall, all of that was predictable, and that's the reason why I personally consider prioritizing general Su-57 type over the general Su-75 type to be a fundamental and predictable planning mistake on the VKS part (one of many tied to general positioning and national fears, rather than political reality of mutual nuclear deterrence).

But for the specific details of current Su-57 ops, we'll have to wait. Ukraine is aware, but they aren't duty bound to do PR for their enemies.
 
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In basically Su-57 can,t fly on Ukrainian airspace. (Only one at shooting down the S-70 on Ukraine zone 0). why? Ukraine's air defense is very capable with Aid from NATO/US intelligence data, like Satellite/SATCOM, AWACS, AEW With an integration system from various platforms in real time and even better than Russia.

what about Iran's air defense only use Early warning radar for SAM site, even iran no capable integration system in country, and Israel/USA has better air combat experience than Russia/Iran
 
Life of Tyo said:
In basically Su-57 can,t fly on Ukrainian airspace.
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First question is whether VKS wants/allowed to.
Second question is what Su-57 or VKS in it's entirety will even achieve there, at what risk and cost.

Su-57 doesn't have internal EOTS, only external one (signature/risk). Neither it has a lot of affordable stand in precision weapons (~500 lb KAB-250LG is the only one in fact, and it isn't high on priority manufacturing list) to justify going in. The funny part is that it's even worse for the rest of the order of battle.

VKS, as a force, is absolutely unequipped and uninterested in engaging any targets of opportunity.
It's built as a DEFCA/stand off strike(tactical/theater/strategic; conventional/nuclear)/anti shipping force, and was built as such for 3 decades. All of that is now subordinated to ground-dominated general staff, making up for the absolute failure what is the ground attack arm.

The entire branch of old Soviet air force, responsible for either battlefield interdiction or SEAD/DEAD was completely destroyed together with Soviet Union, in 1991.

And absolutely nothing changed in direction of procurement/development of VKS over last 4 years, despite availability of a reasonable modern fighter-bomber literally "off the shelf". As such, it's unreasonable to expect VKS to even try contesting Ukrainian airspace, unless there will be a political goal of a decisive conventional strategic bombing campaign.

They already have absolutely uncontested aerial dominance over Black sea, and they don't know what to do with it.
Life of Tyo said:
what about Iran's air defense only use Early warning radar for SAM site, even iran no capable integration system in country, and Israel/USA has better air combat experience than Russia/Iran
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When it comes to experience specifically, VKS is probably the most experienced force out there right now, with 4 years of exhaustive flying (having well over thousand contested combat sorties is norm across the pilot pool).
The problem is that this experience doesn't include achieving strategic goals or any modern aerial opposition.
 
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I've seen the mention of "handful of sorties" when it's been acknowledged that the Su-57 has taken part in combat operations since early to mid 2022 onwards, including long range precision strike, SEAD, combat systems evaluation and of course counter-air operations as well.

People seem to live in a fantasy world that only consists of events they are aware of or only want to be aware of. Unfortunately reality is a very different story and reality is over 4 years of combat operations with the only loss being one of the early test beds which was sitting wide open outside on the tarmac. This is after years of fighting a high intensity conflict against the second largest standing army in Europe which has been equipped with potent soviet era and modern western SAM systems and enjoys the financial and material backing of over 40 countries. All that considered the Su-57 boasts a formidable combat record, even with the little information we've been given by Rostec, the Russian MoD and foreign intelligence sources. There's so much more that will be disclosed years down the line.

Combat success has validated the type in such a manner that work has accelerated to field new weapons and munitions for the type, like S-71, as well as new versions being rolled out, like Su-57D. Meanwhile competitors have been brought down by SHORAD over an empty mountainous desert scape. Relative to fleet size, the Su-57 has racked up tremendous sortie rates and had a disproportionate impact given their limited numbers compared to other VKS aircraft. Only the Su-34 and Su-35 have had arguably bigger impacts, both fleets well in excess of 120 airframes.
 
EmoBirb said:
Meanwhile competitors have been brought down by SHORAD over an empty mountainous desert scape.
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If you're referring to the F-35A that that was hit by a MANPADS that's not a good argument as it was clearly a chance snap-shot taken by a soldier who happened to be in the right place at the right time and carrying a MANPADS.
 
NMaude said:
it was clearly a chance snap-shot taken by a soldier who happened to be in the right place at the right time
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That's how all shoot downs occure. Yet advanced aircraft like the F-35, Su-57, J-20 etc. even older models like Rafale or Su-35 have countermeasures meant to avoid being hit even when being fired at, these countermeasures clearly didn't work.

And I don't know about you, but the MANPAD angle doesn't make it better, but worse. The premier stealth strike fighter of a military force shouldn't be able to be brought down to an emergency landing, with the pilot pumped full of shrapnel, by the cheapest and lowliest of SAM systems.

I'm fully willing to chalk this down to operational failure, rather than the aircraft itself, one shoot down is a statistical error in the overall deployment of the F-35. But operational failures are still failures and careful planning and risk assessment are part of operating advanced aircraft. Which is also in part why Russia isn't flying Su-57s super deep into Ukraine, it just asks for such pot shots like the F-35 fell victim to. Not to mention that even if all Su-57 would be airborne simultanously, so 50 jets behind enemy lines, what are they going to do? Fly laps over the Maidan? Paint a Phallus with contrails over Kiev? Because operationally 50 tactical aircraft in a deep penetration strike against such a vast country wouldn't achieve anything. The Su-34s loaded with ordnance couldn't follow them in order to actually load off significant payload for any reasonable goal. The Su-57 is capable but on it's own it's operationally limited and thus it's stealth capabilities don't provide a decisive strategic advantage. You could time travel and hand the VKS 50 F-47s and the situation would be the same. Because the fleet right now is transitional. The US has the F-22, F-35 and B-2 trifecta already in service which allows for significant deep strike operations. The VKS thus far has only the Su-57, with the T-75 and PAK DA still in development, thus they don't have the force structure necessary to carry out meaningful deep strikes with their fleet. Which is why they, similar to other countries, rely on missiles and drone to deliver the pain deep inside adversary territory. And thus you regularly see large missile salvos targeting industrial and infrastructure facilities. And in these missile raids the Su-57 psrticipates as well, launching Kh-69 from different vectors and close to the line of contact, increasing range and decreasing warning time.
 
EmoBirb said:
The Su-57 is capable but on it's own it's operationally limited and thus it's stealth capabilities don't provide a decisive strategic advantage. You could time travel and hand the VKS 50 F-47s and the situation would be the same. Because the fleet right now is transitional. The US has the F-22, F-35 and B-2 trifecta already in service which allows for significant deep strike operations. The VKS thus far has only the Su-57, with the T-75 and PAK DA still in development, thus they don't have the force structure necessary to carry out meaningful deep strikes with their fleet. Which is why they, similar to other countries, rely on missiles and drone to deliver the pain deep inside adversary territory. And thus you regularly see large missile salvos targeting industrial and infrastructure facilities. And in these missile raids the Su-57 psrticipates as well, launching Kh-69 from different vectors and close to the line of contact, increasing range and decreasing warning time.
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As @Ainen mentioned, "VKS, as a force, is absolutely unequipped and uninterested in engaging any targets of opportunity." Deep strikes have been quite effectively taken over by missiles and drones. It's target of opportunity where you need to have the stealth and electronic warfare to be deep within enemy's airspace to both surveil and decisively neutralize time sensative targets (unless you meant the same thing with the word meaningful deepstrike to which I apologize). It remains to be seen whether the su-57 is capable of that.

And even assuming su-57 is as capable of detecting, mapping, and evading SAM sites and patrolling hostile aircraft as the f-35, that still isn't enough. US surveillance infrastructures to detect, track and transmit target data, sort and prioritize and allocate such data in networked battlespace is much larger than their stealth fleet alone.

Not to mention, though Su-57 is arguably the most capable ground surveillance and electronic support aircraft in the Russian inventory in a fighter package, it still has gaping holes in that regards given the fact that it is first and foremost an air superiority fighter
 
donnage99 said:
Not to mention, though Su-57 is arguably the most capable ground surveillance and electronic support aircraft in the Russian inventory in a fighter package, it still has gaping holes in that regards given the fact that it is first and foremost an air superiority fighter
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IMO there's a not-unreasonable argument to be made for a "stealthy Su-34" built on the Su-57 airframe. Someone on this forum called it a "Su-64".

But I don't think it'll happen.
 
Scott Kenny said:
IMO there's a not-unreasonable argument to be made for a "stealthy Su-34" built on the Su-57 airframe. Someone on this forum called it a "Su-64".

But I don't think it'll happen.
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It was proposed many times, especially since Su-34 itself ironically a cheap offshot of a stealthy B-90("54").

With 3.5 types in development (S-70, T-75, "80"，+Su-57D), please spare Russian economy... it's already rather extravagant for economy sustaining a war on peacetime rails.
Even in PPP terms, it is difficult to argue Russia develops more airframes than it really should.
 
Erdosain said:

Russian military analysts openly challenge Putin’s Su-57 praise​

Key Points
  • Russian military analyst Maksim Kalashnikov publicly challenged Putin's claim that the Su-57 is the world's best fighter, citing its limited role in Ukraine compared to Israeli F-35 combat operations against Iran.
  • Russian military commentators noted the Su-57 has not achieved air superiority over Ukraine and cited engine, avionics, and stealth shortfalls as reasons it lacks true fifth-generation status.
https://defence-blog.com/russian-military-analysts-openly-challenge-putins-su-57-praise/
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''Kalashnikov wrote. “The F-35s in the Israeli Air Force worked against Iran as if there was no air defense there at all. They struck air defense systems and hit critically important targets.''

М.K. ?

https://t.me/roy_tv_mk

He isn't military analyst. In this case, he was nothing but critiser.All of us can be critiser but very small number can be the real military analyst ,commentator, tactician etc. OK , V.Putin said Su-57 is the best, yes. D.Trump could also say F-22A or F-35 is/are the best, its OK too.

Now what about the reality? I think, must to repeat what Igor Korotchenko ( possibly the leading Russian real military analyst and commentator besides Victor Murakhovsky and some other) said/wrote in the summer of 2022. First operational group of four Su-57's was used from the very beginning of the war in the long range SEAD/DEAD missions against Ukr. ADF long range decimetric/metric radars with the new ARM type Kh-58UShK-TP. After that, they were used in some combat missions like attack on the Trypol Kiev's powerplant with Kh-69 etc.They were not used for the air superiority/air dominance role. Again,from the 2023,Ukraine acquired very modern western/NATO ADS's like PAC-2/-3 ,SAMP/T etc. Also last two years, Ukr An-124's regularly visited Tel Aviv airport and some air bases in Germany.So they constantly build and upgrade its IADS.Right now ,they have PAC-2/-3 batteries in the Kiev's, Kharkov and Odessa region.Old S-200D(DM) on the mobile platforms proved very well especially two times against A-50U ( launch ranges was well over 200km).

What about Iran and its IADS during the so called 'Epic fury' mission? As it was bolded, there was no real ( integrated ) AD at all! Long before that operation even started, almost all Iranian radars were destroyed: From Rezonans-E VHF band,Gamma-DE ( Falaq) UHF band, 96L6E from S-300PMU2 Favorit etc. To remind here, all four S-300PMU-2 batteries were completely inoperative and useless during the operation.Command & Control centers were also destroyed etc.That was the real reason why USAF/IAF stealth fighters and bombers
flew without almost any danger and threats and we also know that IRIAF is practically one 'flying museum'.For that F-35 it was much easier to use Iranian air space ( especially for IAF which used one secret airfield on the western part of Iraq) .

PS
Even today ,I remember well what was the first real military target for the NATO during the NATO-FRY war 1999. It was the biggest,huge, long range VHF band P-14 'Tall King'' radar ( 33m x11m ) in the vicinity of the city of Panchevo ( Kacarevo village).It was hit by several AGM-86C CALCM launched by the B-52H on the night of 24 March 1999 around 7 30 pm. W/o that radar ,Yu ADF was well degraded.

EmoBirb said:
The US has the F-22, F-35 and B-2 trifecta already in service which allows for significant deep strike operations.
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Yes they have them but they can be only used were real IADS is only 'dead letter on paper'.

As we could see on the Su-57D's tail ,it seems that Su-57,S-70 and Su-75 will possibly be that 'stealthy trio' of the VKS ?
 
EmoBirb said:
Relative to fleet size, the Su-57 has racked up tremendous sortie rates
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Would you mind sharing the information related to Su-57's sortie rates ? I was of the impression, that VKS doesn't publicly disclose such datapoints.
 
… and again : The theme here is Su-57 flight testing and development , NOT geostrategical implications of its, or other stealth fighters use in which theater whatsoever !
About source criticism, which is an often point in many reports : Often there are reports, because someone states a source, that is regarded by the reporting person as „propaganda“, „nonsense“, or „pure crap“. , demanding it to be deleted at once. If such statements are made without giving a source, no problem at all. But I‘m not sure, that people here always are aware about what „source“ in this context means, and I often have the feeling, that they simply mean „I don‘t believe in it, it’s against my own opinion, so it has to be deleted !“
But that’s not, how dealing with sources should be done in an, at least to some extent, scientifically held discussion (yes, that’s the aim in this forum, not simply ranting, as in many social media) Remember, that even (or especially) propagandistically overhyped claims can actually say more about the topic, than other, much more realistic sounding comments.
Source criticism mainly is a task to the reader, not to the poster, reading without thinking is possible, but not recommended !
And sometimes such reports simply seem to be based on the fact, that the post doesn‘t fit the reporters opinion ….but there still is a thing called „freedom of opinion“, something often really hard to bear. But „who doesn’t share my opinion, simply cannot think logically“ is really a good proverb, but shouldn‘t be taken too seriously.
 
snne said:
What we do know is that, to nobody's surprise, Iran managed to score an opportunistic hit on an F-35 with an IR-guided SHORAD missile, injuring the pilot and forcing the aircraft into a crash-landing.
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Never heard of a crashed F-35 due to enemy fire. Heard of a damaged one that made it back to base.
 
Satellite photo of one Su-57 at Petrozavodsk airport, located close to Finland.
 

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^

My assumption is that after two regiments , 23 GvIAP or Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment ( Dzyomgi AB) and 22 GvIAP ( Tsentralnaya Uglovaya AB) ,third regiment began to receive Su-57s and it is 159 Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (Petrozavodsk/Besovets AB.
 
Life of Tyo said:
Satellite photo of one Su-57 at Petrozavodsk airport, located close to Finland.
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''Satellite images of Petrozavodsk Airport as of May 14, 09:12 UTCThe airport housed 2 Su-57 (Felon), 13 Su-35S (Flanker-E), 7 Su-34 (Fullback), 8 Su-30SM (Flanker-H), 56 Su-27 (Flanker), 2 An-26 (Curl), and 1 Il-18 (Coot).On April 11, 2026, Su-57 arrived at Petrozavodsk Airport for the first time, which is just 165 km from the border with Finland.A maximum of two Su-57, which conduct regular training flights, were present here at the same time.On May 7, seven Su-30SM of the Russian Knights aerobatic team arrived at the airport and departed on May 9.''

https://twitter.com/x/status/2055347981453242607
View: https://x.com/avivector/status/2055347981453242607


So there is more than 50 serial produced/operational Su-57's right now just as 'George.N' and 'FB' mentioned. 48 in two regiments, 22nd and 23rd Guards fighter aviation regiment as part of the 303rd mixed aviation division of the 11th Army of the AF-ADF.As we can see, two Su-57's are in the 159th Guards fighter aviation regiment of the 105th Guards mixed aviation division of the 6th Army of AF-ADF. Several fighters are in 968 IISAP of the 4th TsBP-PLS in the Lipetsk-2 AB.Maybe there is some of them in the Akhtubinsk AB ( 929 GLITs of the Ru MoD).
 
^

''One of those photos further shows the mysterious targeting pod below the left engine nacelle.''

Hm, it must be the 101KS-N .

https://www.recomonkey.com/Air-Platforms/Equipment/101KS/101KS-N

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...ng-and-development.15626/page-127#post-909556

''Most impressively, it is armed with the 124-mile-range R-37M (AA-13 Axehead) air-to-air missile...''

I think that R-37M isn't part of the Su-57's weaponry at all 'cause there is Izd. 810.


''The Su-57 is the only operational Russian fighter available in any kind of meaningful numbers with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

The N036 radar, which has five separate AESA arrays, is part of a broader, integrated fire-control system that includes the 101KS electro-optical suite, the N036Sh identification friend or foe (IFF) system, and the L402 electronic countermeasures suite.''

It is interesting and strange that even today after so many years ,most of the 'authors' think there is only five AESA onboard instead of eight of them ,four centimetric: 1x N036,2x N036B and the Epaulet-A and four decimetric 4x N036L.
 
Inst the izd 810 a modified version of the r37M meant for internal carriage designed for the su57/su75 internal bay(considering they both share the same bay with su57 having 2 of them.)
 
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lmaoxd said:
Inst the izd 810 a modified version of the r37M meant for internal carriage designed for the su57/su75 internal bay(considering they both share the same bay with su57 having 2 of them.)
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Completely different missile.
images

Su-57 does carry R-37M and R-77-1, but only as a backwards compatibility. Just like it carries Kh-31 or Kh-59.
 
ohhh I see. Seems like I got things mixed up. Will this new missile be carried by the flankers and the MIG 31 as well?
 
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lmaoxd said:
ohhh I see. Seems like I got things mixed up. Will this new missile be carried by the flankers and the MIG 31 as well?
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Idk. It appears to be longer, and mig-31bm as it is may not be able to accept it.
 
Ainen said:
Su-57 does carry R-37M and R-77-1, but only as a backwards compatibility. Just like it carries Kh-31 or Kh-59.
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We don't know that because in the FWC's ( Fuselage Weapon Compartment's ), there is simply no place for it. Reason is that lower stabilizers of the R-37M are not foldable.

Question is, can Su-57 carry them under the wings and air intakes on the catapult launchers AKU-620? Besides Izdeliye 810 ,I think there is no place for the Izdeliye 610M(my opinion).
 
Sending stealth fighters to hunt drones is an overkill. Highly inneficient. An airfleet should have also cheaper aircrafts which can do against drones a similar job as the costly stealth fighters.
 
Wotan said:
Sending stealth fighters to hunt drones is an overkill. Highly inneficient. An airfleet should have also cheaper aircrafts which can do against drones a similar job as the costly stealth fighters.
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If you have an economy big enough to buy both stealth and non-stealth aircraft, sure. Modern countries are not necessarily in such a convenient place.
 
Scott Kenny said:
If you have an economy big enough to buy both stealth and non-stealth aircraft, sure. Modern countries are not necessarily in such a convenient place.
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Tbh, if we check expensive* monofleets - it's a choice; all of them could easily afford a split. But many such fleet decisions were taken before it became obvious that low-altitude air is everyone's problem, including decisions by countries that never even anticipated defensive action.

*I don't think it's a stealth problem per se. Aircraft can be expensive and maintenance-heavy without LO; LO aircraft can potentially be maintainable.
 
Wotan said:
Sending stealth fighters to hunt drones is an overkill. Highly inneficient. An airfleet should have also cheaper aircrafts which can do against drones a similar job as the costly stealth fighters.
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False reasoning in my opinion!

The Su-57 is probably the most efficient combat jet for such a task since no other fighter has the same level of situational awareness. Finding low-flying, low-observable drones that can make incomparably more expenses (destroying high-value targets) compared to the operating costs of the stealth fighter is most definitely not overkill.
Not to mention the saved human lives when such drones are destroyed more efficiently!

Another benefit from that is the accumulated experience in real combat conditions and the possibility to constantly upgrade the sensors and weapons. So, I think that is a win-win situation for the Su-57 program and the VKS.
 
PeregrineFalcon said:
False reasoning in my opinion!

The Su-57 is probably the most efficient combat jet for such a task since no other fighter has the same level of situational awareness. Finding low-flying, low-observable drones that can make incomparably more expenses (destroying high-value targets) compared to the operating costs of the stealth fighter is most definitely not overkill.
Not to mention the saved human lives when such drones are destroyed more efficiently!

Another benefit from that is the accumulated experience in real combat conditions and the possibility to constantly upgrade the sensors and weapons. So, I think that is a win-win situation for the Su-57 program and the VKS.
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I completely agree.
And it is clear that the experience gained will be utilized in the development of the T-75 and its onboard systems (particularly the KOEPS-75), which will represent the sought-after, more cost-effective solution.
 
lancer21 said:
Some images/footage showing Su-57 with external AKU-ASP launchers for R-77M, and further down with what looks to be two R-77-1 and two R-74 under the wings. Probably these configurations being for antidrone/cruise missile defence.
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It seems now that Su-57 can carry not only R-77-1 but also newer R-77M.

PeregrineFalcon said:
The Su-57 is probably the most efficient combat jet for such a task since no other fighter has the same level of situational awareness. Finding low-flying, low-observable drones that can make incomparably more expenses (destroying high-value targets) compared to the operating costs of the stealth fighter is most definitely not overkill.
Not to mention the saved human lives when such drones are destroyed more efficiently!

Another benefit from that is the accumulated experience in real combat conditions and the possibility to constantly upgrade the sensors and weapons. So, I think that is a win-win situation for the Su-57 program and the VKS.
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Exactly. Those drones/UAV's as VLO-aircraft are mostly composite made and are real test for the N036 Byelka AESA radars ,centimetric and decimetric.Of course ,there is also a plenty of opto-electronic sensors/detectors as part of the 101KS 'Atoll' complex,especially that 101KS-N.
 

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