UK-Japan-Italy Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) News & Analysis

Ares said:
Mitsubishi F-2 Viper Zero took its nickname from the legendary A6M Zero.
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Nickname from whom? 'Viper Reisen' or 'Falcon Reisen' would seem a more natural name from the Japanese side, 'Viper Zero' sounds more like an English language fan construction. Both the LockMart and Mitsubishi websites simply call it the F-2, and as the article suggesting Reppu notes, the JSDF has no provision for naming aircraft beyond type designator and numerical sequence.
 
DWG said:
Nickname from whom? 'Viper Reisen' or 'Falcon Reisen' would seem a more natural name from the Japanese side, 'Viper Zero' sounds more like an English language fan construction. Both the LockMart and Mitsubishi websites simply call it the F-2, and as the article suggesting Reppu notes, the JSDF has no provision for naming aircraft beyond type designator and numerical sequence.
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Most of the nicknames for Japanese military aircraft are unofficial and not given at the manufacturer level. The authorities decide through public contest, or the operators simply name them through tacit agreement. The name Viper Zero is an example of the latter, and Reppu is likely an extension of that.
 
news.yahoo.co.jp

戦闘機開発、インドに参画を打診　政府、巨額費用の負担軽減期待（共同通信） - Yahoo!ニュース

政府が、英国、イタリアの3カ国で進める次期戦闘機の共同開発を巡り、インドに参画を打診していたことが分かった。参加国を増やすことで、巨額の開発費用の負担軽減を期待する。南アジアの大国であるインドとの
news.yahoo.co.jp news.yahoo.co.jp
政府が、英国、イタリアの3カ国で進める次期戦闘機の共同開発を巡り、インドに参画を打診していたことが分かった。
It has been learned that the Japanese government has approached India about joining the joint development of next-generation fighter jets with the UK and Italy.
 
momosir said:
news.yahoo.co.jp

戦闘機開発、インドに参画を打診　政府、巨額費用の負担軽減期待（共同通信） - Yahoo!ニュース

政府が、英国、イタリアの3カ国で進める次期戦闘機の共同開発を巡り、インドに参画を打診していたことが分かった。参加国を増やすことで、巨額の開発費用の負担軽減を期待する。南アジアの大国であるインドとの
news.yahoo.co.jp news.yahoo.co.jp
政府が、英国、イタリアの3カ国で進める次期戦闘機の共同開発を巡り、インドに参画を打診していたことが分かった。
It has been learned that the Japanese government has approached India about joining the joint development of next-generation fighter jets with the UK and Italy.
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IMO never ever! Then joining Germany into this program would be an even better and more realistic idea!
 
My translation was a bit strange.
What Japan proposed to India was "Participation," not "Joint development."

Participation could mean various things, including joint development, integrated approval of Indian weapons, and knock-down production.

I think it is unlikely that India will become a joint developer.
 
Ares said:
India eager to join GCAP, but Japan is concerned about the close relationships between India and Russia.


www.sankei.com

＜独自＞日英伊共同開発の次期戦闘機にインドも参画意欲　日本は受け入れに慎重

日本、英国、イタリアによる次期戦闘機の共同開発に、インドが参画の意欲を示していることが1日、分かった。インドから日本政府に参画の可能性を探る打診があった。ただ…
www.sankei.com www.sankei.com
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Just a reaction to this?
 
momosir said:
My translation was a bit strange.
What Japan proposed to India was "Participation," not "Joint development."

Participation could mean various things, including joint development, integrated approval of Indian weapons, and knock-down production.

I think it is unlikely that India will become a joint developer.
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the title says participation
but when reading the body "共同開発" being used, which is means joint development
 
Kiltonge said:
That's the complete opposite of what the GCAP nations have concluded. Pushing deep into hostile territory, beyond UHF datalinks, networked with a sqn of UCAVs, sixth-gen aircraft will have to have vast amounts of computing power to process the torrent of incoming sensor data. The smart part of munitions is only useful once all that data has been processed and for timeliness that will have to happen onboard, not back in home nation.

Doctrinally it also means a delegation of targetting authority to far-forward autonomous units, but that is something most NATO-aligned nations practice to some extent.

Now maybe that means a B-21 style platform would be better for some tasks; to some degree it does sound like the original B-2 mission of hunting SS-20s far behind the FLOT. but the GCAP still sees a need for high kinematic performance as well.

For that mission I'm surprised that GCAP is single-crew, surely a second pair of hands and eyes would be a boon.
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R2 D2 is behind the pilot, no canopy as eterior vision would be via sensors and helmet mounted display crossover. Not sure how George Walton Lucas Jr gets his Royalty checks but no doubt there is a workaround.
 
India would certainly feed anything they got to Russia and PRC, would anyone that has a single grey cell extant and active, even consider that?
 
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How much of what Russia gets, can they NOT pass on to the PRC, considering how much they get in aid from them? Collaboration does not have to be direct to be effective.
 
momosir said:
nordot.app

【独自】次期戦闘機に「烈風」検討　防衛省、旧海軍の名称使用 ｜ 共同通信

日本、英国、イタリアの3カ国が2035年までの配備開始を目指して共同開発を進める航空自衛隊の次期戦闘...
nordot.app nordot.app
The veracity of this report is unknown, but it seems that the nickname for the fighter jet in Japan will be "Reppu" (烈風).
Reppu means very strong wind.
It was the name of a fighter plane developed by Mitsubishi for use as a carrier-based aircraft for the navy during WWII.

What will Italy name it? Tempesta?Bora?Scirocco?
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Ares said:
Mitsubishi F-2 Viper Zero took its nickname from the legendary A6M Zero. In keeping with tradition, it would be natural for the next fighter’s name to draw from the A7M Reppu, also crafted by the same manufacturer. The term Reppu translates directly to 「Fierce Storm」, which corresponds well with the English name Tempest.

That said, the original Reppu was an unfortunate aircraft, failing to meet its ROC and never advancing beyond the prototype phase.
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Honestly hope it's false info. If they ever decide to give it some sort of nickname, I hope it's something like Hayate or Hayabusa
 
helmutkohl said:
the title says participation
but when reading the body "共同開発" being used, which is means joint development
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but the context is quite important here.
政府が、英国、イタリアの3カ国で進める次期戦闘機の共同開発を巡り、インドに参画を打診していたことが分かった。
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could read as that they are offering a seat in the joint development, but it could also mean any kind of participation into the "joint development programme between Japan, UK and Italy", meaning it could be other things apart from joint development itself.

If anything, considering past stance of the Japanese government concerning potentially interested parties, I don't think they would've offered India to actually join-in in any way.
 
What could India even realistically bring to the table other than money and a large workforce? Their expertise in aviation is...less than stellar. And if they can't bring programs like Tejas or AMCA to fruition in humane time frames, how valuable could their contribution be to the very cutting edge on aviation.

Aside from them being very tricky partners on top of that. With an ever present desire to have specs most suited to them and as much economical benefit/involvement as possible.

If GCAP desperately needs even more members than it already has to get anywhere, than the future of that program should already be called into question. Approaching potential future customers is one thing, but trying to get the likes of Saudi Arabia or India for presumably more money involved isn't painting a pretty picture.
 
Word is India has started shopping around for fifth gen due to slow progress in its domestic development programs but also because it has been spooked by the Chinese demonstrators and thinks the timescale for needing a counter has shortened. Cant see the GCAP partners wanting to sell to India though.
 
WatcherZero said:
Word is India has started shopping around for fifth gen due to slow progress in its domestic development programs but also because it has been spooked by the Chinese demonstrators and thinks the timescale for needing a counter has shortened. Cant see the GCAP partners wanting to sell to India though.
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They are more worried about potential sale of j35 to pakistan.
With their AMCA not entering before 2035.
There will be gap of 6-8 years in generational capability.
Though that alone wouldn't make the too big of a difference, as pakistan at most can buy 2 squads or less than 1 squadron worth of j35, but the psychological effect will not allow india to have a airforce that doesn't operate stealth jets while pakistan does.
So few squads of f35 or su57 could be bought.
Though I think, India should have directly gone for 6th gen, because the amca as they described are pursuing is already 6th gen in 5th gen medium weight airframe, kind of like upgraded varients of f35/j20 of 2035+.

So instead should have gone for a bigger jet, with more range, payload, More electrical power Like tempest.
 
Regarding the development plan for the next-generation fighter jet being jointly developed by Japan, the UK, and Italy—known as the Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP)—the three countries have begun coordinating to allow Saudi Arabia to participate as a "partner country."

Multiple Japanese government sources revealed this on May 2. Saudi Arabia has previously requested formal participation based on the treaty governing the intergovernmental organization "GIGO," which manages the development of the fighter jet. While the UK and Italy have high expectations for Saudi Arabia’s financial resources, the Japanese side has expressed concerns that adding another negotiation partner could delay development, and has also cited worries about information security due to Saudi Arabia’s arms dealings with China and Russia. However, during talks between Japan, the UK, Italy, and Saudi Arabia in mid-April, the Saudi side indicated it would not insist on early participation as a formal member. As a result, the three countries have decided to accept Saudi Arabia’s involvement as a "partner country" and begin discussions on that basis. Japan’s intention is for Saudi Arabia not to be directly involved in the development process but to limit its role to financial and other forms of cooperation.

As for Saudi Arabia’s potential formal participation under the treaty in the future, discussions are ongoing with conditions such as improving Saudi technical capabilities and implementing information security measures. However, some within the Japanese government believe that "in the end, formal participation will likely be difficult" (according to a source).
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www.asahi.com

日英伊の次期戦闘機開発、サウジを「パートナー国」として参画容認へ：朝日新聞

日英伊で共同開発中の次期戦闘機の開発計画「グローバル戦闘航空プログラム（GCAP）」をめぐり、日英伊3カ国がサウジアラビアについて「パートナー国」として参画することを容認する方向で調整に入った。　複…
www.asahi.com www.asahi.com
 
Ares said:
www.asahi.com

日英伊の次期戦闘機開発、サウジを「パートナー国」として参画容認へ：朝日新聞

日英伊で共同開発中の次期戦闘機の開発計画「グローバル戦闘航空プログラム（GCAP）」をめぐり、日英伊3カ国がサウジアラビアについて「パートナー国」として参画することを容認する方向で調整に入った。　複…
www.asahi.com www.asahi.com
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So a partner means a pay piggy in this case. Why not just call them a pre-order customer at this point lol.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
because "other form of participation" could also mean stuff like supply chain involvement.
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Which might not be insignificant e.g. look at Italy and Netherlands as Tier 2 partners on JSF with first source and second source supply of various components, local FACO and MRO facility etc. It seems eminently doable for KSA to be able to do this with investment over the next 5-10 years. It could nicely build upon local assembly of the next 48 Typhoons if this ever happens.

This is quite different from "this supplier in this country already makes these widgets so we'll buy in those".

But who knows what'll actually happen in the end
 

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