TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

[Combat-Master]

There's a video on this twitter post;

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022327801475367055

View: https://x.com/clashreport/status/2022327801475367055?s=20

 

[snne]

Three Kaans side by side

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022327640833839227

View: https://x.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/2022327640833839227?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E2022327640833839227%7Ctwgr%5E8b278d0435de7cd54250f196406e9bcdc8102720%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinodefenceforum.com%2Ft%2Fturkey-military-news-reports-data-etc.7329%2Fpage-585

 

[snne]

The canopy bar is internal this time, and the aircraft looks noticeably sleeker and more refined. The faceted EOTS housing is the real deal, though they haven’t installed the actual IRST housing yet. I think they’ve installed the MURAD-600A on the aircraft in the photo; its radome appears to be a bandpass type to m e, meaning it won’t carry a pitot tube.

 

[Ainen]

Nothing personal to P1, but P2 is far more attractive.
(i still hope they'd replace upper irst with something else, for aesthetics only)
come to think of it, it ain't quite as bad as it was on graphics.

 

[snne]

Nothing personal to P1, but P2 is BY FAAAR more attractive.

That was the GTU-0/P0 Tech Demo/Ground Test Article, whereas the newer ones are designated as P1 & P2(?); though one of them in the photo is said to be for the Iron Bird tests, whereas the P2 is supposed to be one of the flying prototypes.

 

[Combat-Master]

APU location spotted.

 

[B-1R]

P1 looks more charismatic now

 

[Combat-Master]

One of them is the Iron Bird, the other is P1. That must be the reason for the differences.

I see so, just P0 and P1 plus the Iron Bird for static tests. No P2 present just yet.

 

[snne]

I see so, just P0 and P1 plus the Iron Bird for static tests. No P2 present just yet.

I vaguely recall that P1, P2, and P3 were being built at the same time, with P3 supposedly designated for Iron Bird tests?

 

[snne]

(i still hope they'd replace upper irst with something else, for aesthetics only)
come to think of it, it ain't quite as bad as it was on graphics.

 

[Nart]

I see so, just P0 and P1 plus the Iron Bird for static tests. No P2 present just yet.

That should be the case. Tolga Özbek confused it with P2, but TAI doesn't give Iron Birds "P" designation. I mean, look at Hürjet or Gökbey. The Iron Birds were built before the second prototypes and didn't receive a "P" designation.

 

[Canardzz]

One of them is the Iron Bird, the other is P1. That must be the reason for the differences.

Indeed.. However this is the static test airframe. Iron bird is a totally different test rig all together, has nothing to do with what is shown here.

 

[snne]

Turkish Aerospace GM:

"The 10 engines we have are sufficient for the prototypes.

We are awaiting engines from the USA, and we are currently in the final stage of the approval process.

We will likely receive approval for the first batch of blocks 10 and 20 this month, or perhaps next month

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022325470054826229

View: https://x.com/KaraKulak__/status/2022325470054826229?s=20

 

[snne]

Guys... The main landing gears are now side-mounted.

Static Prototype (1) VS GTU-0/P0 (2)

This would also require a fairly substantial internal redesign...

EDIT: GTU-0 on the right below, the new static prototype on the left.

 

[lancer21]

Same as P1 isn't it?

 

[Geo]

Turkey should be congratulated and wished much success.
This is a huge success on the path to achieving real sovereignty.
Bravo.

 

[Nart]

@snne Good catch. Lol, such an obvious change, but we didn't notice it. The gears are also much beefier. Also, no more double chin.

 

[B-1R]

Guys.. The main landing gears are now side-mounted.

Static Prototype (left)
View attachment 801906

VS

GTU-0/P0
View attachment 801907

This would also require a fairly substantial internal redesign...

more internal space?

 

[Combat-Master]

Looks like another aircraft is in assembly stage

 

[snne]

View attachment 801908
@snne Good catch. Lol, such an obvious change, but we didn't notice it. The gears are also much beefier. Also, no more double chin.

The gears are the same. But yeah, when I first noticed it, I was like, “How the heck did we miss this detail?” I mean, you could see the difference in the aircraft’s stance, for crying out loud...

 

[Archibald]

Good job Turkey ! Impressive plane.

 

[snne]

Turkey Releases Imagery Of Second Prototype Of Kaan Fighter | Aviation Week Network

Turkey’s Defense Industries Agency has released imagery of the second prototype of the indigenous Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) Kaan fighter.

aviationweek.com

 

[Canardzz]

Found Tulgar sneaking inside the cockpit...

 

[Geo]

Fascinating development. Really.
Does the start date for the TF35000 prototype tests remain this year?

 

[snne]

Fascinating development. Really.
Does the start date for the TF35000 prototype tests remain this year?

Initial tests only, not the full engine assembly.

It’s currently in CDR. They’re following a strategy similar to the Kaan fuselage development approach, i.e. producing and testing components while the Critical Design Review phase is still ongoing. Single engine integration on a prototype in 2028 still seems possible, albeit on a somewhat tight timeline.

 

[gugugagayigit]

Quick comparison

 

[snne]

Quick comparisonView attachment 802039

Is there a higher-resolution image available? Devil's in the details and the new prototype is so detail-rich that such low-resolution comparisons do not do justice to how much more advanced it is...

 

[Geo]

Is it just an appearance, or is the canopy really higher?

 

[Nart]

Is there a higher-resolution image available? Devil's in the details and the new prototype is so detail-rich that such low-resolution comparisons do not do justice to how much more advanced it is...

They moved the EOTS forward.

 

[Waterballoon]

They moved the EOTS forward.

To make room for the side radars.

P1 looks very smooth even without coating and paint.

 

[gugugagayigit]

Why is this surface not curved? could this be a preparation for some sort of flat nozzle?

 

[Waterballoon]

View attachment 802064

Why is this surface not curved? could this be a preparation for some sort of flat nozzle?

Aerodynamic optimization to increase body lift. Kaan P1 looks like it will generate more lift from the body vs P0. Approaches Su-57 level body lift. Much better than the Raptor.

 

[snne]

Is it just an appearance, or is the canopy really higher?

Looks that way, but the canopy and the rest of the cockpit section are the same; it's just the camera perspective making the dimensions appear different.

Aerodynamic optimization to increase body lift. Kaan P1 looks like it will generate more lift from the body vs P0. Approaches Su-57 level body lift. Much better than the Raptor.

Indeed, the wings are small compared to other 4th/5th gen heavy-lifters (even with its 3 pylon slots). In a non-stealth A-G configuration, I’d imagine cruise missiles would take up a significant portion of the available underwing real estate, given how short the span is from the wing root to the tip.

Also, ICYMI; the flap-aileron placements are different as well.

 

[snne]

Initial tests only, not the full engine assembly.

It’s currently in CDR. They’re following a strategy similar to the Kaan fuselage development approach, i.e. producing and testing components while the Critical Design Review phase is still ongoing. Single engine integration on a prototype in 2028 still seems possible, albeit on a somewhat tight timeline.

CEO of TAI had an interview a couple days ago:

Now, Kaan's engine, as you know, is being developed in collaboration with TEI and TR Motor. Yes. The PDR phase was completed last week. We moved on to the CDR. This was an important phase. In other words, the design has emerged. What will it be like? What will be there? What will be placed where? What interfaces will affect the interior design of the aircraft, its weight, power, etc. These are now frozen as a concept. One of them has been chosen, and this is the stage where the final design details are started. This takes approximately 1 to 1.5 years. In the meantime, sometimes risks are taken, and parts and systems that will take a long time to procure are worked on beforehand, and quickly, I think, we plan to start the first prototype tests in the 2028-29 range. So we will put it on the aircraft in the 2029-30 range. It's progressing fast right now, but we need to speed up even more.

 

[Lacy]

we plan to start the first prototype tests in the 2028-29 range. So we will put it on the aircraft in the 2029-30 range.

TF6000 first firing was in 2024 and its first flight is in 2028 earliest(from TAI CEO).

The 2029-30 for aircraft integration of TF35k is just integration, not first flight. The FF of the engine is expected in 2032.

 

[snne]

TF6000 first firing was in 2024 and its first flight is in 2028 earliest(from TAI CEO).

The 2029-30 for aircraft integration of TF35k is just integration, not first flight. The FF of the engine is expected in 2032.

2032 is the official certification deadline, as it is written into an actual contract to deliver B30 aircraft with TF35k engines starting in 2032.

He is saying that integration will occur in the 2029 to 2030 timeframe. That does not mean flight testing will begin immediately, as several months of ground testing on aircraft will be required first. A +/- two year test campaign leading up to certification and LRIP commencement in Q2-Q3 2032 would be a reasonable timeline if there's to be no major delays. (Albeit some things would get rushed, such as ground testing)

All engines mature as they enter operational service, with reliability improving over time throughout their service life. Neither the F110, F119, nor the F135 were as reliable or as refined at entry into service as they are today.

 

[Lacy]

2032 is the official certification deadline, as it is written into an actual contract to deliver B30 aircraft with TF35k engines starting in 2032.

He is saying that integration will occur in the 2029 to 2030 timeframe. That does not mean flight testing will begin immediately, as several months of ground testing on aircraft will be required first. A +/- two year test campaign leading up to certification and LRIP commencement in Q2-Q3 2032 would be a reasonable timeline if there's to be no major delays. (Albeit some things would get rushed, such as ground testing)

All engines mature as they enter operational service, with reliability improving over time throughout their service life. Neither the F110, F119, nor F135 were as reliable or as refined at entry into service as they are today.

2032 for the first delivery of the engine is no longer true. It's been pushed back by a year. The new target is 2033.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022352604844691823

View: https://x.com/KaraKulak__/status/2022352604844691823

 

[snne]

TLDR for recent updates regarding both the F110 and the TF-35000:

On the F110 supply:

and we are currently in the final stage of the approval process.

We will likely receive approval for the first batch of blocks 10 and 20 this month, or perhaps next month

On the TF-35000 development status:

The PDR phase was completed last week. We moved on to the CDR.

This takes approximately 1 to 1.5 years. In the meantime, sometimes risks are taken, and parts and systems that will take a long time to procure are worked on beforehand, and quickly, I think, we plan to start the first prototype tests in the 2028-29 range. So we will put it on the aircraft in the 2029-30 range. It's progressing fast right now, but we need to speed up even more.

 

[Lacy]

why the laugh? is it the authenticity of the source? It's coming directly from breakingdefense.

“It’s a challenging project. It’s a very high-end engine in terms of design, in terms of material, in terms of manufacturing, and our goal is [by] 2032 for first test, and the 2033 is the final delivery,” he concluded.

Turkish Aerospace in 'final stages' of talks over Saudis in KAAN fighter program: Exec - Breaking Defense

Riyadh has been tightlipped about how it plans to expand or upgrade its fighter fleet, with several international options on the table.

breakingdefense.com

 

[snne]

why the laugh? is it the authenticity of the source? It's coming directly from breakingdefense.

Turkish Aerospace in 'final stages' of talks over Saudis in KAAN fighter program: Exec - Breaking Defense

Riyadh has been tightlipped about how it plans to expand or upgrade its fighter fleet, with several international options on the table.

breakingdefense.com

He wildly throws dates around all the time. This fact makes them just his (more realistic) personal estimates with risks factored in, nothing more. Show me a contract and I'll believe ya.