OceanGate Expeditions Titan DSV loss

Arjen said:
Well, we were going terribly off topic, but I highlighted the bit by @Foo Fighter that did touch on how Stockton Rush got away with playing silly buggers by operating in international waters. Until he didn't, that is.

US governments frequently balked at control and oversight outside of national boundaries. Unless it was the US doing it. That is still going on, I notice.
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I am shocked! Shocked to find that there is duplicity going on here!
 
Sorry for the thread bump after all this time, but has anyone read the book that was published recently on the disaster ? Granted it was written by an insider who new Stockton well but it presents a completely different image of him than the narrative the media has been pushing all this time. According to the book he was not an ignorant buffoon obsessed with profits over safety, but rather someone who was genuinely interested in the scientific benefits of undersea exploration and was well aware of the risks and tried to minimize them as much as possible. If you are interested in the story of OceanGate, this book is well worth the read.



https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Unfini...ywords=titan+unfinished&qid=1768063195&sr=8-1
 
alberchico said:
Sorry for the thread bump after all this time, but has anyone read the book that was published recently on the disaster ? Granted it was written by an insider who new Stockton well but it presents a completely different image of him than the narrative the media has been pushing all this time. According to the book he was not an ignorant buffoon obsessed with profits over safety, but rather someone who was genuinely interested in the scientific benefits of undersea exploration and was well aware of the risks and tried to minimize them as much as possible. If you are interested in the story of OceanGate, this book is well worth the read.



https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Unfini...ywords=titan+unfinished&qid=1768063195&sr=8-1
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Reads like revisionist history to me.

It was pretty clear at the time that Rush ignored safety concerns repeatedly. FFS the carbon fiber was bought from Boeing because it had expired.

Let me say that again.

Rush bought cheap materials to make his actual submersible. Not to make the prototype to prove out the manufacturing processes. To make the actual submersible.
 
alberchico said:
According to the book he was not an ignorant buffoon obsessed with profits over safety, but rather someone who was genuinely interested in the scientific benefits of undersea exploration and was well aware of the risks and tried to minimize them as much as possible. If you are interested in the story of OceanGate, this book is well worth the read.
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Anyone with even a modicum of actual submarine design knowledge would have known the design was questionable at best, and likewise anyone with actual operational/maintenance experience would absolutely shit a brick at pretty much every aspect of their maintenance process. It's certainly possible that the media narrative fails to capture some of the nuance of his decisions, but at best he was extremely negligent, and it's rather difficult to whatever he might have thought he was accomplishing, what he actually did was act as a egotistical buffoon.
 
sdmuleman said:
Anyone with even a modicum of actual submarine design knowledge would have known the design was questionable at best, and likewise anyone with actual operational/maintenance experience would absolutely shit a brick at pretty much every aspect of their maintenance process.
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Yeah. Consider pretty much all of my posts to have a full Gunny Ermey rant deleted.

This one really got under my skin.



NMaude said:
He struck me as a very arrogant, reckless, wilful with a highly exaggerated opinion of himself.
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Exactly. He thought he was the smartest person in the room, by far.
 
I find myself wishing that Stockton Rush hadn't gone down in his death-sub just so that the bastard could spend the rest of his life in prison on multiple charges of manslaughter:mad:.
 
James Cameron developed his submarine the right way:
1. He built the entire thing according to industry best practices, not whatever seemed good to a bunch of amateurs.
2. He tested his design before committing human lives. E.g. the pressure hull was put into a high-pressure chamber and tested to the pressure found at 11 km depth.
3. He didn't cut corners on any aspect of design or operation.

Cameron was interviewed by the commission that investigated the Oceangate accident. The transcript of that interview is online, and I've attached it here. The difference between his MO and that of Oceangate is evident.

The redaction of his name in the PDF is hilarious, when page 4 says
Well, I'm sure you're familiar with my film Titanic
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NMaude said:
I find myself wishing that Stockton Rush hadn't gone down in his death-sub just so that the bastard could spend the rest of his life in prison on multiple charges of manslaughter:mad:.
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I completely understand and share your intellectual and ethical point of view, but at times pure natural laws take over, justly or not.
 
alberchico said:
Sorry for the thread bump after all this time, but has anyone read the book that was published recently on the disaster ? Granted it was written by an insider who new Stockton well but it presents a completely different image of him than the narrative the media has been pushing all this time. According to the book he was not an ignorant buffoon obsessed with profits over safety, but rather someone who was genuinely interested in the scientific benefits of undersea exploration and was well aware of the risks and tried to minimize them as much as possible. If you are interested in the story of OceanGate, this book is well worth the read.



https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Unfini...ywords=titan+unfinished&qid=1768063195&sr=8-1
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Clearly his priorities and risk assessments were extremely badly skewed by his (hyper)ego issues. Natural selection at work, but deeply regrettable for his gullible passengers.
 
Being keen on exploration is fine, ignoring science and engineering principles while SELLING the dream is NOT.

Using discarded materials for the project is asking for the result. Taking others with him is murder.

The failure to put international standards in place is a failure that continues to crop up.

Bastards.
 
martinbayer said:
I completely understand and share your intellectual and ethical point of view, but at times pure natural laws take over, justly or not.
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I meant if he hadn't gone down in the submersible as in not actually being in it when it imploded and was on the support ship instead.
 
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Foo Fighter said:
Being keen on exploration is fine, ignoring science and engineering principles while SELLING the dream is NOT.

Using discarded materials for the project is asking for the result. Taking others with him is murder.

The failure to put international standards in place is a failure that continues to crop up.

Bastards.
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I doubt it has anything to do with discharded material. The main point were the stiff end caps, which kept the carbon cylinder at a larger diameter thsn the rest under the influence of pressure.This results in two critical things:

Sheering forces between the layers of the carbon cylinder. Note, there have been five seperated layerd for manufacturing reasons which were only connected by resin. It turned out, they became disconnected. 5 times a layer of 20 ٪ cannot take as much bending force as one layer of 100 %.

Edge load of the carbon in the C-grooves of the end caps. This will cause very high stressed punctual loads. This might have been the sole error or caused delamination, entrance of water, cracking the resin between the layers.

The whole design was faulty.
 

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publiusr said:
I actually would love to see a special episode of Mythbusters where the incident is re-created...a one off program...also allowing a final on screen farewell to Grant.
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I honestly think there is no scientifically accurate as well as commercially feasible way to recreate this manslaughter deathtrap mishap, but if you ask AI very nicely, I believe you could have your wish fulfilled, with Adam, Jamie, Tory, Kari, and Grant reunited beyond the grave of the latter...
 
Rush found out the hard way an optimist is never pleasantly surprised.

He killed himself and a number of other people through dismissing experts as know-nothings. He did it on a small scale. There are leaders who are scaling this up to an apocalyptic scale. Take your pick.
 
martinbayer said:
I honestly think there is no scientifically accurate as well as commercially feasible way to recreate this manslaughter deathtrap mishap,
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It would be expensive to be sure...which is why it likely will never be done. As I recall, it was the tightwads at Discovery who fired good people...same with the FACE/OFF series, which was the best thing the SYFY network ever did.

It would likely require the sacrifice of at least one very high speed camera...like those used to film explosions....in that the *implosion* is more powerful. Drop the article in the Mariana Trench, so destruction is assured.

Cameras would surround the test article.

Here of course, the only passengers would be crash test simulaids, a pig... maybe something from the Body Farm known in the Forensics world. The pig representing Rush, of course.

This would be a good moment to drive home the point that the barnstorming mentality of experimental aviation (Rutan, etc) has NO PLACE at depth.

The only lethal, fiber-wrapped object that belongs there being a depth charge.

Footage of just what happens inside (slow motion) would be the nautical equivalent of the old "Blood & Guts" highway safety films that were once required viewing for students in drivers ed. Anything to sober up the punk element in society.

That alone would be worthwhile.

Young, would-be submariners watch this film as part of naval training of whatever Navy they serve, in that their submersibles might also be their casket.

It is not enough to drop a Styrofoam head at depth...that is only a curiosity:

"Are you sure you want to do this, son?

Carbon fiber is suspect enough as it is:
https://phys.org/news/2026-03-link-carbon-fiber-weakening-aircraft.html
"New research from engineers at Monash University and RMIT has revealed that moisture absorption is the most important factor in how carbon fiber used in aircraft degrades over time. The discovery could help the aerospace industry predict material aging more accurately, improve aircraft maintenance planning, and design longer-lasting composite structures....The finding, now published in Composites Part A: Applied Science and Manufacturing, is particularly important because aerospace engineers often use accelerated aging tests to simulate decades of environmental exposure in a much shorter time."

--as in dunking a tub full at benthic pressures, say?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yKmK0ZnrW3M



The ship
 
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In 2013, Rush began work on the Titan, a submersible he was convinced would be as indestructible as its namesake was claimed to be.
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How inspired, really. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

As inspired as Ismay in that scene.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP7BWb1ndpA

"No matter what we do - Titanic, will founder."
"But - but this boat can't sink !"
"she's made of iron, Sir ! She can; and she will. It's a mathematical certainity."
 
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That Guardian piece is... pathetic, somewhat. Stockton Rush was a miserable bastard, but those pakistanese rich people, ugh... so naive, so credulous, so detached from reality.

Reading that I couldn't help thinking "Well all those Jurassic Park movies finally were not that caricatural. Of the evil rich tech bros and the very naive fools believing them" Stockton Rush versus that poor lady and her family. Not that different from Jurassic Park III, the Tea Leoni and Fargo actor characters. Michael Crichton novels intensifies.
 
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Nicknick said:
Here two pictures which might help to understand the problem. There are many good videos of thid accident but none really gets to the point.

I know, Powerpoint is not for everyone...

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/powerpoint-engineering-and-the-downfall-of-quality.8957/
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This video is exactly in line with my posting above
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/oceangate-expeditions-titan-dsv-loss.41692/post-881653


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7w-IquGevM
 
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Archibald said:
That Guardian piece is... pathetic, somewhat. Stockton Rush was a miserable bastard, but those pakistanese rich people, ugh... so naive, so credulous, so detached from reality.

Reading that I couldn't help thinking "Well all those Jurassic Park movies finally were not that caricatural. Of the evil rich tech bros and the very naive fools believing them" Stockton Rush versus that poor lady and her family. Not that different from Jurassic Park III, the Tea Leoni and Fargo actor characters. Michael Crichton novels intensifies.
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I had the pleasure to attend a lecture Michael Crichton gave at the Amerikahaus München on the occasion of the publication of Rising Sun. He was a gentle giant in every sense of the term.
 
martinbayer said:
I had the pleasure to attend a lecture Michael Crichton gave at the Amerikahaus München on the occasion of the publication of Rising Sun. He was a gentle giant in every sense of the term.
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He died before his time, it just occurred to me that it has been 20 years since his death from leukaemia (IIRC he was only 66 when died).
 
Here is the 'Daily Fail's take on the report.

A shocking catalogue of errors doomed the Titan submersible and led to its implosion, a final safety report into the disaster has revealed.

The investigation found the Titan's carbon fibre hull became weaker over time, with damage building up after each deep-sea dive.

Its operator, OceanGate, never properly tested whether the vessel was strong enough for repeated trips to the Titanic wreck, and its construction did not follow standard engineering practices.

As a result, the company did not know how long the hull would remain safe and failed to spot or address the risks that ultimately led to the tragedy, which killed five people in June 2023.

OceanGate had developed systems intended to detect signs the frame was weakening, but they did not prevent the catastrophe, the report said.

One system collected data on the hull after each dive, but it was not consistently analysed and did not lead to the vessel being taken out of service.
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Catalogue of errors that doomed Titan submersible crew: Final safety report reveals major failures
 
Stockton "Safety Regs are for pussies" Rush was a midnight-cowboy who was running fast and loose, he didn't give a damn about safety and doing things properly and either ignored or unlawfully dismissed those who brought up the issue:mad:.
 
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All he wanted was a rush to a ton of his stock... options. In other words: he was a greedy pigfucker.
 

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