Frégate de Taille Intermédiaire (FTI)

From Euronaval 2024, an FDI frigate with "full options":

- 32x Sylver VLS
- New MLPS multipurpose launcher on the hangar roof (for up to 16x Mistral SAMs or 88x laser guided rockets or a mix of weapons including decoy rockets)
- RapidFire 40mm CIWS (also on hangar)
- Other self-protection including: Jammers (Thales?), 2x CMLS torpedo decoy launchers (Naval Group) and 4x Sylena decoy mortars

The only option missing apparently is Strales guided 76mm rounds for the main gun (Leonardo), but that might be overkill!
https://www.naval-group.com/fr/euro...es-derniers-travaux-issus-de-lopen-innovation
FDI frigate Euronaval 2024.jpg
LMP launcher below:
 

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H_K said:
From Euronaval 2024, an FDI frigate with "full options":

- 32x Sylver VLS
- New MLPS multipurpose launcher on the hangar roof (for up to 16x Mistral SAMs or 88x laser guided rockets or a mix of weapons including decoy rockets)
- RapidFire 40mm CIWS (also on hangar)
- Other self-protection including: Jammers (Thales?), 2x CMLS torpedo decoy launchers (Naval Group) and 4x Sylena decoy mortars

The only option missing apparently is Strales guided 76mm rounds for the main gun (Leonardo), but that might be overkill!
https://www.naval-group.com/fr/euro...es-derniers-travaux-issus-de-lopen-innovation
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Hrm... That MLPS is a good idea. I suspect that the typical load is going to be some 8x Mistral SAMs, 22x laser guided rockets, plus decoy rockets.

I still prefer the 76mm Supraponte as the CIWS, it's very close to the weight of a RAM or Phalanx install.

And I fully expect to see the Vulcano and DART rounds for the 76mm main gun.
 
H_K said:
From Euronaval 2024, an FDI frigate with "full options":

- 32x Sylver VLS
- New MLPS multipurpose launcher on the hangar roof (for up to 16x Mistral SAMs or 88x laser guided rockets or a mix of weapons including decoy rockets)
- RapidFire 40mm CIWS (also on hangar)
- Other self-protection including: Jammers (Thales?), 2x CMLS torpedo decoy launchers (Naval Group) and 4x Sylena decoy mortars

The only option missing apparently is Strales guided 76mm rounds for the main gun (Leonardo), but that might be overkill!
https://www.naval-group.com/fr/euro...es-derniers-travaux-issus-de-lopen-innovation
View attachment 746040
LMP launcher below:
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If i remember it right wasn't it reported before that the greek FDI's still had an Option for another 16 cells? I need to look for it.

Edit: im wrong while the article was about the greek ships but they meant the french ships.
 
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Update on sea trials and positive feedback on the inverted bow. The first Greek frigate is due to start sea trials shortly (in June).
https://www-meretmarine-com.transla..._sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
With sea trials complete, the Admiral Ronarc'h begins a docking period in Lorient
The first of class of the new defense and intervention frigate (FDI) program, Admiral Ronarc'h, has successfully completed its fourth and final series of sea trials, to the great satisfaction of its builder, Naval Group, as well as the French Navy. The French Navy was able to appreciate the at times unprecedented capabilities of this new ship, which is scheduled to arrive in Brest at the end of the summer. Until then, the vessel will undergo a lengthy docking period.

The Admiral Ronarc'h returned to Lorient on Friday, April 11, after completing the fourth and final phase of its sea trials, which began in October. The ship, which has already demonstrated exceptional capabilities in many areas, according to sailors and Naval Group employees interviewed on board by Mer et Marine, arrived at Dock 3 of Naval Group's Lorient shipyard on Tuesday, April 22. The new French frigate will remain there for an extended period of time, approximately 16 weeks, which will allow for corrective work to be carried out and the frigate to be prepared for delivery, which is scheduled for the second half of the year.

Following completion of the maintenance period, the Admiral Ronarc'h is due to arrive in Brest, where it will be based, in September. This will be followed by a military qualifications & training phase with a view to entering active service in 2026. The ship, which has already fired a practice torpedo, is also due to carry out its first Aster surface-to-air missile launch after delivery.

The inverted bow, a real success
After the four phases of sea trials, in different weather conditions, the nautical qualities of the new French frigate were also demonstrated. The fin stabilizers make it roll less than the FREMMs, and the inverted bow designed by Naval Group's architects is considered a resounding success. In heavy weather, the ship does not slam into waves, it cuts through them and diverts the wave energy to the sides, which limits pitching and ensures no green water reaches the foredeck. This results in better seakeeping and therefore increased comfort for the crew. But above all, a more stable platform improves the operation of its sensors and certain weapons (such as the cannon and vertical launchers), while the absence of nose diving into waves prevents possible damage to the foredeck. Finally, the fact that the bow does not slam into the waves reduces the stress on the structure and therefore hull fatigue. The only side effect, when the swell is quite strong, is that the metal "spray rail" which protrudes from the top of the bow generates sea spray. But the sailors clearly consider this to be only a slight inconvenience, which can be dealt with simply by turning on the wipers on the bridge windows, and which is very much offset by the advantages provided by the inverted bow.
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H_K said:
Update on sea trials and positive feedback on the inverted bow. The first Greek frigate is due to start sea trials shortly (in June).
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Great news, I wonder how much the seakeeping qualities of the FDI would be improved by the 10m plug they announced as an option some years ago ...

It also bodes well for the F127 frigates, if it is indeed based on the Meko A-400 AMD, which features the same inverted bow design on a ship twice the displacement.
 
So the tumblehome has returned to the French Navy - not seen since pre-dreads 120 years ago. Mercifully the related Jeune Ecole has not returned, let it buried at the bottom of the Mariana trench. Also the FDI are top of the list ships, not floating horrors.
 
Archibald said:
So the tumblehome has returned to the French Navy - not seen since pre-dreads 120 years ago. Mercifully the related Jeune Ecole has not returned, let it buried at the bottom of the Mariana trench. Also the FDI are top of the list ships, not floating horrors.
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FDI doesn't have a tumblehome hull, it's a relatively conventional flared hull, just with a an inverted bow with the benefits of added waterline length, additional useful volume forward and greater freeboard to reduce spray.
 

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H_K said:
The first Greek frigate is due to start sea trials shortly (in June).
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The 1st Greek FDI, Kimon, has started her sea trials (2nd hull built after the FS Amiral Ronarc'h).

Note the RAM launcher on the hangar and 2 additional VLS modules (for a total of 32x Aster SAMs). Also not visible, the hangar has been modified to carry S70 Seahawk helicopters.

https://www-meretmarine-com.transla..._sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapphttps://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/05/first-greek-fdi-frigate-starts-sea-trials/
grec_f601_kimon_2025-05-22_lorient_pl-8297rcrfn.jpg


Grn23r4WUAAhchu


Kimon-NG-image.jpg
 
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And a video of Kimon's sea trials:

At ~€650 million (base price for the ASW variant) + ~€75M for the enhanced AAW/self-protection package (+16 Aster SAMs, RAM launcher, ECM jammers and decoy launchers) these Greek FDI HNs seem like a great deal for a world class ASW/AAW escort, with even some ABM capabilities.

View: https://youtu.be/BQUzt0PYPdc?feature=shared&t=29
 
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Greece just signed for a 4th FDI frigate.

Here's a recap of costs, which seem quite competitive given recent global inflation... roughly €750M per hull, fully equipped, for frigates with excellent ASW/AAW capability.

FDI HN1 (2025 delivery): €659.5M base price + €68M AAW upgrade* + €20M ECM jammers - €748M total
FDI HN2 (2025/26 delivery): €654.5M base price+ €68M AAW upgrade* + €20M ECM jammers - €743M total
FDI HN3 (2026 delivery): €708M base price + €20M ECM jammers - €728M total
FDI HN4 (2028/9 delivery): €809M total with 25% local offsets

* AAW upgrade included: 16 Sylver A50 VLS for Aster 30, RAM launcher, Lacroix Sylena decoy launchers

Source: https://www.defence-point.gr/news/p...i-fdi-hn-oi-bergamini-kai-i-diafainomeni-tasi
 
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Grey Havoc said:
This is liable to put the cat among the pigeons:
https://tboverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=3504
I could have sworn that I had posted a bit on the planned Luleå-class somewhere in the forum before (including a proposal that would have basically turned the design into a Type 31 variant), but can't find said posts at the moment.
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What exactly would Sweden hope for by procuring this oversized Corvette rather than following through with the Type 31 based design?
 
EmoBirb said:
What exactly would Sweden hope for by procuring this oversized Corvette rather than following through with the Type 31 based design?
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EU level politics may be playing a role here. Personally, I think the original Visby derived design was the right approach for a design that the Royal Swedish Navy needs yesterday.
 
TomS said:
For whom? The Greeks already have ASTER, RAM, Exocet, and a 76mm gun.
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Looks like a configuration for sweden's Lulea class tender ... you could also add a bofors 40 on the hangar (the 40CTA Rapidfire fits there)

It seems feasible but you would have to replace some Sylver launchers by ExLS to be able to use the CAMM missiles

Nice picture of a busy shipyard
image.jpeg
 
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Titus K said:
Looks like a configuration for sweden's Lulea class tender ... you could also add a bofors 40 on the hangar (the 40CTA Rapidfire fits there)

It seems feasible but you would have to replace some Sylver launchers by ExLS to be able to use the CAMM missiles

Nice picture of a busy shipyard
View attachment 784939
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Ah, yep. Sweden is lined up for ExLS/CAMM on the Visbys. With CAMM already in the pipeline, I'd think Sweden would prefer CAMM MR over ASTER, which would probably mean Mk 41 (as in the Polish Arrowheads). Not sure if Naval Group has ever offered an LM VLS though.
 
TomS said:
Ah, yep. Sweden is lined up for ExLS/CAMM on the Visbys. With CAMM already in the pipeline, I'd think Sweden would prefer CAMM MR over ASTER, which would probably mean Mk 41 (as in the Polish Arrowheads). Not sure if Naval Group has ever offered an LM VLS though.
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Yes, I meant CAMM for the sake of commonality with the Visbys, and as a replacement (upgrade) for the Aster 15.


As for replacing Aster 30s with CAMM-MR, I think that’s a pretty misguided idea, to be honest.

CAMM-MR doesn’t really exist yet—there’s very little information available, and development only started two years ago. It’s still years away from being operational.

Even then, CAMM-MR will likely be significantly less capable than the Aster 30 B1NT:
  • Aster 30 B1NT: <150 km range, up to 25 km altitude, Mach 4.5, 450 kg
  • CAMM-MR: claimed <100 km range ... with unknown altitude, speed, and weight (but double-packing in Mk41 kinda tells the story already)
I also doubt there will be much in common between CAMM and CAMM-MR, so I don’t really see why Sweden would feel tied to the whole CAMM family just because of the Visbys.
 
Titus K said:
Yes, I meant CAMM for the sake of commonality with the Visbys, and as a replacement (upgrade) for the Aster 15.


As for replacing Aster 30s with CAMM-MR, I think that’s a pretty misguided idea, to be honest.

CAMM-MR doesn’t really exist yet—there’s very little information available, and development only started two years ago. It’s still years away from being operational.

Even then, CAMM-MR will likely be significantly less capable than the Aster 30 B1NT:
  • Aster 30 B1NT: <150 km range, up to 25 km altitude, Mach 4.5, 450 kg
  • CAMM-MR: claimed <100 km range ... with unknown altitude, speed, and weight (but double-packing in Mk41 kinda tells the story already)
I also doubt there will be much in common between CAMM and CAMM-MR, so I don’t really see why Sweden would feel tied to the whole CAMM family just because of the Visbys.
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I feel like having a common architecture across all the missiles and associated combat systems would be desirable. But I guess PAAMS will be dealing with both, so that's not insurmountable.

The industrial issues of getting LM launchers into a French-built ship might be a significant hurdle, though. Seriously, I'm blanking on any examples of Mk 41 (or ExLS) in a French design.
 
TomS said:
The industrial issues of getting LM launchers into a French-built ship might be a significant hurdle, though. Seriously, I'm blanking on any examples of Mk 41 (or ExLS) in a French design.
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Naval Group previously sold ESSM on its Gowind corvettes to the UAE, which would have been fitted with 16x Mk56 VLS, so there's some precedent.

But then the UAE was apparently unable to obtain US export authorization for ESSM Blk 2 and they ended up reverting to VL Mica as this offered much better performance against saturation attacks than ESSM Blk 1 (with limited fire control channels). Plus VL Mica NG is now available with much improved range and a new AESA seeker, bringing it closer to ESSM Blk 2.
 
For a potential "Swedish FDI," I’ve been considering how to integrate CAMM into the Greek variant, given that Sylver compatibility seems more and more unlikely...

My idea is to replace one of the forward A50 launchers with 2x 3-cell ExLS modules, and repositiponning the Sylver A50 launcher in the middle of the 2x ExLS

Since a 3-cell ExLS is roughly the same length as a Sylver (about 260 cm), it should fit within the ship’s length constraints.
In terms of width, it also looks feasible, especially since the ExLS has about 1 m less depth compared to an A50.
That said, I might be a bit optimistic with the spacing between launchers.

This setup would give the frigate a loadout of 24 Aster 30 B1NT + 24 CAMM = 48 missiles in total.
Compared to 32 on the Greek variant ... and only 16 on the French one...

Additionally, a Swedish variant would likely mount a 57 mm gun instead of the 76 mm, which could free up a bit more space.

Capture d’écran 2025-09-20 à 00.22.29.jpg
 
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@Titus K How about the Exocet launcher area amidships?

Sweden will most likely be using the RBS-15 missile, which is quite short, allowing all 8 anti-ship missiles to be installed back-to-back, as on the Meko A200AN (for example). This should free up one of the Exocet launcher spaces for something else.

That’s probably the best place for EXLS launchers. You could fit 4x 3-cell EXLS for 48 CAAM. And still have 32x Sylver forward.
 
H_K said:
That’s probably the best place for EXLS launchers. You could fit 4x 3-cell EXLS for 48 CAAM. And still have 32x Sylver forward.
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Why not, but is there actually enough free space beneath those ramp launchers ?

With the forward position, you avoids a full redesign of the ship’s layout, since that space already accommodates the two A50 launchers.

Another reason I was leaning toward placing the ExLS as far forward and to the sides as possible is safety, in case of a CAMM misfire from the soft launcher.

The forward position also provides the widest possible launch arcs... inversely, wouldn't installing the CAMMs amidships introduce limitations when firing forward or aft ?
 

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Titus K said:
With the forward position, you avoids a full redesign of the ship’s layout, since that space already accommodates the two A50 launchers.

Another reason I was leaning toward placing the ExLS as far forward and to the sides as possible is safety, in case of a CAMM misfire from the soft launcher.

The forward position also provides the widest possible launch arcs... inversely, wouldn't installing the CAMMs amidships introduce limitations when firing forward or aft ?
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Good points but I think there should be less redesign needed for VLS amidships, as moving VLS locations forward will require structural changes on at least 2 decks inside the hull, plus rerouting maintenance pathways.

Soft launch eliminates (or greatly reduces) any concerns about misfires AFAIK.

For launch arcs, perhaps the EXLS could be installed along each side amidships (port & starboard) instead of on the centerline. That should allow them to fire forward and aft without obstruction by the radar mast.
 

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