Mogami/DEX/30FFM class frigate

stimpy75 said:
Mogami-class 30DX frigate JS Mogami (FFM-1) coming into Yokosuka, Japan - April 10, 2024
View attachment 725177
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The shape of that upper mast/antenna is so unfortunate... Poor ship floating around with an "adult novelty" stuck to the top of the bridge...


Grey Havoc said:
japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

Japan Considering Bid to Join Australia’s Frigate Project; Boost to Domestic Defense Industry Expected

<p>The government is considering launching a bid to jointly develop new frigates with Australia, The Yomiuri Shimbun has learned.</p>
japannews.yomiuri.co.jp japannews.yomiuri.co.jp
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Hope that goes better than their Submarine bid. I still think a modified Soryu class (longer for more fuel tanks and batteries) would have been just about perfect for the Aussies and they'd have half a dozen of them delivered by now. Granted, it's a diesel/AIP boat not a nuclear boat. But at the time Oz was very anti-nuclear.
 
13DDX... that would be funded in 2031? Or would that be construction start date?
 
www.navalnews.com

"Upgraded Mogami" Is The New "New FFM", Looking At Australia

Japanese builder MHI redesignates the Mogami FFG successor as "Upgraded Mogami", seemingly positioning the design for Australian contract.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

1722006589107.png
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New mast proposal for export customers of “Upgraded Mogami” to the left, an alternate configuration also featuring the prominent “Unicorn” integrated mast to the right.
 
www.abc.net.au

Faster and stealthier: Japan's pitch to clinch $10bn Australian warship prize

Japanese officials claim their Mogami frigate is faster, stealthier and better suited to operate alongside the United States than a rival warship offering from Germany.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Time to revive the thread. As part of SEA3000 for Australia, ATLA claimed that MHI is able to produce up to 12 Mogami's at a single time.
Despite Japan never having exported warships to a foreign customer, ATLA official Satoshi Ishihara believes his country's proposal can succeed because it is strongly backed by the government and MHI is able to construct 12 ships at a time in three separate shipyards.
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The gov participation for the program is really crazy and was absent for literally every other defense export proposal from Japan.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1868938391007776824
View: https://x.com/ModJapan_en/status/1868938391007776824
 
In other news, Mogami-class #10; Nagara just launched.
news.yahoo.co.jp

海上自衛隊の最新鋭もがみ型護衛艦10番艦「ながら」進水　艦名は長良川に由来　旧海軍軽巡洋艦の名を継承（高橋浩祐） - エキスパート - Yahoo!ニュース

海上自衛隊の最新鋭もがみ型護衛艦（FFM）10番艦の命名・進水式が12月19日、三菱重工業長崎造船所（長崎市）で行われた。「ながら」と名付けられた。海上幕僚監部広報室によると、艤装（ぎそう）やさまざま
news.yahoo.co.jp news.yahoo.co.jp
 
I think we have a winner!
Not to mention, the first JMSDF Mogami hull launched in I think 2018? And they just launched their 10th today?
10 hulls built in 6-7 years?
But, just change the CEAFAR section of the mast only!
Whatever you do, don't completely gut-out and redesign the interior, then tell your government it's a "mature design that can immediately be mass produced", only to backtrack a year into production and decide that the first hull is actually going to take at least 9 years to complete. Then act confused as to why everyone's so pissed off....
Don't do that^^^
 
TeourdBeourglaer said:
I think we have a winner!
Not to mention, the first JMSDF Mogami hull launched in I think 2018? And they just launched their 10th today?
10 hulls built in 6-7 years?
But, just change the CEAFAR section of the mast only!
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Then you break the ship as the CMS can't communicate with it (if you even can fit it).
TeourdBeourglaer said:
Whatever you do, don't completely gut-out and redesign the interior, then tell your government it's a "mature design that can immediately be mass produced", only to backtrack a year into production and decide that the first hull is actually going to take at least 9 years to complete. Then act confused as to why everyone's so pissed off....
Don't do that^^^
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The thing is RAN said minimal changes to an active duty design for the first hulls. Now both mogami and meko A200 would be close to completly new system with new weapon system where FFM in theory can't even follow those requierments. Its just too 85% an mogami. Thats not minimal changes (or even in service for that matter).
 
TeourdBeourglaer said:
I think we have a winner!
Not to mention, the first JMSDF Mogami hull launched in I think 2018? And they just launched their 10th today?
10 hulls built in 6-7 years?
But, just change the CEAFAR section of the mast only!
Whatever you do, don't completely gut-out and redesign the interior, then tell your government it's a "mature design that can immediately be mass produced", only to backtrack a year into production and decide that the first hull is actually going to take at least 9 years to complete. Then act confused as to why everyone's so pissed off....
Don't do that^^^
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Hi,
Although it is probably a highly laudable approach to try and not change much, in practice that may not always be possible. For instance,it appears that the Magami classuses the MT30 GasTurbine engine. However, the Anzac and Hobart classes appearto use LM-2500 gas turbines. While a new gas turbine can be taken into use, it willcome with an added logistics burden that includes not only a completely different chain of spare parts, but will also require additional/partially different training requirements which willmean that the RAN will have to try and ensure that they have sufficient engineersn triained for both systems. This clearly isn't an impossible task at all, but for a small navy its anothr cost and impact that has to be taken into consideration.

Additionally, while the Hobart class appears to use Caterpillar type dieselcruise engines, while the Anzacs appearto use MTU dieselcruise engines, it appears that the Mogami uses MAN Diesel engines. Once again, it is clearly not impossible to support all three different type engines in service but youcan also see that from a maintenance,supportand life cycle cost point of view there could be some desire to see if any new ship could use cruise engines that are moresimilarto those already in use on the other ship'sin the navy.

This also goeson to other less glamourous things like A/C Plants, desalination systems, electrical system components, interior and exteriorcomms systems and even pieces of outfit and furnishing, where it might be easier/more cost effective to see if there may be stuff that can be more locally sourced than possibly having to rely on stuff that may have to be shipped in from over seas.

Other than thatb there are also issues as to whether the Mogami'sdesign specs fully fit with what the RAN'smission may be. There probably are big differences between the two, but since the RAN has to patrol the Souther Sea, you will probably need to ensure that the desing's range, operating temperatures and possibly ice/cold weather protection levelsfullymeet the environment that the RAN intends to operate in. As noted above, these may not be too different between the two navies but it needs tobe checked and there may be needs for some changes if there are any differences.

As for weapons systems and sesnors, you have already mentioned fitting CEAFAR, but I also see that the Magami's are fitted with something called the Type 18 surface to surface missiles, type 12 torpedoes, and a range ofother electronics systems,that may be different to what the RAN currently uses, and as with the other systems above a decision would have to be made as to whether toadopt those systems, and instead fit systems the same as or similar to what is already in use in the RAN.

As such, in the endwhile there may be a lotof desire to not change much, any such decision would have to be balanced off with the potential additional costs, manning, training,and other logisiticsimpacts that adopting a new system may entail.
 
PFJN said:
it appears that the Magami classuses the MT30 GasTurbine engine. However, the Anzac and Hobart classes appearto use LM-2500 gas turbines. ....

Additionally, while the Hobart class appears to use Caterpillar type dieselcruise engines, while the Anzacs appearto use MTU dieselcruise engines, it appears that the Mogami uses MAN Diesel engines.
Click to expand...

Commonality isn't an issue as the Hunter class also use MT30 and MAN diesels.
 
japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

Japan to Again Propose Frigate Development With Indonesia; Seeks to Enhance Security Cooperation With East Asia Nations

<p>The government has decided to again propose the joint development of Maritime Self-Defense Force vessels with Indonesia, as part of its efforts to enhance security cooperation with eastern Asian countries, Japanese government sources have said.</p>
japannews.yomiuri.co.jp japannews.yomiuri.co.jp
So it seems like now Indonesia might be finally cashing in on their original intent to buy Mogamis and have been offered a joint development partnership similar to the one with Australia. This next FFM class might turn pretty modular where each sale is specialized to the customers needs.

It could also be the case where this is more of a formal offer as Japan has a much easier time with exporting "jointly developed" weapons programs to the partner nation and this is a work around to the still relatively strict regulations.
 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVmCT2qsFQs

New video by MHI on the old and upgraded Mogami. Some of the most interesting parts

Jan/12/2022 with the keel laid
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Mar/15/2022 with the hull pretty much finished and waiting for the super structure in just 2 months.
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Construction table
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2029 and 2030 are going to have 3 upgraded Mogami's in a single year vs the usual 2 a year.
1736883323327.png
 
It's just a rumor.

If the NEW FFM is prioritized for Australia, there is a possibility that 4 ships will be built at the same time: 2 Nagasaki, 1 Mitsui E&S Tamano, and 1 JMU Isogo.
 
Scott Kenny said:
The shape of that upper mast/antenna is so unfortunate... Poor ship floating around with an "adult novelty" stuck to the top of the bridge...



Hope that goes better than their Submarine bid. I still think a modified Soryu class (longer for more fuel tanks and batteries) would have been just about perfect for the Aussies and they'd have half a dozen of them delivered by now. Granted, it's a diesel/AIP boat not a nuclear boat. But at the time Oz was very anti-nuclear.
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The French option was the best by a long shot in terms of capability and being an improvement over Collins, compared to the German and Japanese offers. The best of the best would have been engaging Kockums for an evolved Collins but that was politically unacceptable for the people who had spent two decades claiming the Collins sucks, not because it was bad, but because it was tied to the then oppositions best candidate for PM.
 
www.janes.com

IHI supplies MCM USVs for Japan's Mogami-class frigates

Japan's IHI Corporation is supplying unmanned surface vessels (USVs) for the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force's (JMSDF's) Mogami-class frigates.
www.janes.com www.janes.com
As title says, unmanned robitic MCM system for Mogami. Though I'm surprised the system is supplied by IHI instead of JMU. Makes me currious about licensing and production arrangement.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631580116491943936
View: https://x.com/yk_ta77/status/1631580116491943936

https://twitter.com/x/status/1925751273824895380
View: https://x.com/KosukeGoto2013/status/1925751273824895380/photo/1

Umikaze USV

Attachment is OZZ-5 UUV
 

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The 5,500t 8th Mogami commissioned, program launched August 2017 with the selection of Mitsuibishi Heavy Industries design, USNI in 2023 reported estimated cost varies between $370 and $410 million. The ~6,100t Mk II Mogami down selected with the latest variant of the TKMS MEKO A-200 to compete for the Australian contract.

www.navalnews.com

Japan Commissions Eighth Mogami-class Frigate ‘Yubetsu’ 「ゆうべつ」 - Naval News

The eighth Mogami-class FFM, was officially commissioned with the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF).
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
 
Cordy said:
The 5,500t 8th Mogami commissioned, program launched August 2017 with the selection of Mitsuibishi Heavy Industries design, USNI in 2023 reported estimated cost varies between $370 and $410 million. The ~6,100t Mk II Mogami down selected with the latest variant of the TKMS MEKO A-200 to compete for the Australian contract.
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Japan has such an impressive shipbuilding industry !
Would those warships be build in Australia or Japan/Germany ?
 
Pepin said:
Japan has such an impressive shipbuilding industry !
Would those warships be build in Australia or Japan/Germany ?
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The Australian Navy plan was to control the build schedule and costs there would be zero design changes for the 11 ship Tier 2 class frigates with the first three ships built in country of origin, next three at home and the balance of build was left open.

Will be interesting to see if the plan survives the politicians input, in US Congress mandates all Navy warships built in home shipyards.
 
Kota said:
Upgraded Mogami has been selected for the AUS SEA3000 program. Most interesting parts are that Australia is doing a full quad pack ESSM load for 128 missiles and the upgraded Mogami will have a range of ~10,000nm putting it well above a lot of other frigates that average around 6000-7000nm
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To me amongst its stand out features are the range at 10,000 nm with its diesels, CODLAG, which is over twice that of a Burke of ~ 4,500 nm, in actuality only ~3,000 nm with minimum Navy operational reserves, presume at the time ~'85 Burke short range was based on Atlantic - Cold War, not the Pacific and why the Navy graphic for the proposed DDG(X) highlighted a 50% greater range giving 120% more time on station plus 25% reduction in fuel usage.

Secondly the cost as contract quoted at $6.5 billion for the eleven frigates , $590 million each which includes the last eight being built in Australia. The original Mogami program was launched Aug. '17 with the selection of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries design, USNI reported estimated cost varies between $370 and $410 million, the upgraded Mogami subject of the contract is a 25% larger ship in displacement.

Thirdly the speed of build which appears was the key selling point highlighted in above posts.

breakingdefense.com

Australia selects Japan's Mogami frigate in $6.5B deal - Breaking Defense

The deal, for 11 frigates, represents the first major arms sale for Japan since World War II.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
Kota said:
Upgraded Mogami has been selected for the AUS SEA3000 program.
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Unfortunate but there is no shame in losing to such a formidable offer. I hope the Aussies will get the most out of the ships they picked.

Also interesting to see Japan export surface combatants for the first time since....?
 
Cordy said:
To me amongst its stand out features are the range at 10,000 nm with its diesels, CODLAG, which is over twice that of a Burke of ~ 4,500 nm, in actuality only ~3,000 nm with minimum Navy operational reserves, presume at the time ~'85 Burke short range was based on Atlantic - Cold War, not the Pacific and why the Navy graphic for the proposed DDG(X) highlighted a 50% greater range giving 120% more time on station plus 25% reduction in fuel usage.

Secondly the cost as contract quoted at $6.5 billion for the eleven frigates , $590 million each which includes the last eight being built in Australia. The original Mogami program was launched Aug. '17 with the selection of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries design, USNI reported estimated cost varies between $370 and $410 million, the upgraded Mogami subject of the contract is a 25% larger ship in displacement.

Thirdly the speed of build which appears was the key selling point highlighted in above posts.

breakingdefense.com

Australia selects Japan's Mogami frigate in $6.5B deal - Breaking Defense

The deal, for 11 frigates, represents the first major arms sale for Japan since World War II.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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Feels like losing SEA 1000 has been a pretty valuable lesson for them, that acting cocky like they do in the domestic Japanese market against Japanese MoD will not do them any favours in the international market. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if their offer was much more attractive considering they would've really wanted to win this deal, even backing out of CPSP going all-in.
 

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