Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" fighter

F-2 said:
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XMnw3YYxYVE

Remember how for a long while it was hard to get good J-10 footage? Come a long way. This demo is something else.
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Yeah, the defining moment for me was when the J-10CEs first landed in Pakistan. The super tight-OPSEC imposed by the PLA was then lifted since the Pakistanis are generally a lot more relaxed about such matters.


Nowadays, it's treated the same way they treat a J-7 or J-8F :D

siegecrossbow said:
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overscan (PaulMM) said:
J-10C has an modern AESA radar and a very potent BVR missile. I'm not sure why it being able to shoot down non-stealth fighters from long distance is surprising.
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I was very tempted to engage with this question but did't want to spam the Kashmir/Bar-Thread.

I think it is not really a surprise. It’s more of an unwelcomed realization that the Chinese “on paper” achievements (in regards of radars and BVR missiles) could have been more than just propaganda.
At this point, this rumor from last year is, for me, also more believable.

Good for potential Chinese sales in the Middle East, bad for European fighter with small noses (problematic upgradability).
 
had said:
I was very tempted to engage with this question but did't want to spam the Kashmir/Bar-Thread.

I think it is not really a surprise. It’s more of an unwelcomed realization that the Chinese “on paper” achievements (in regards of radars and BVR missiles) could have been more than just propaganda.
At this point, this rumor from last year is, for me, also more believable.

Good for potential Chinese sales in the Middle East, bad for European fighter with small noses (problematic upgradability).
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This supposedly showed up at a Chinese airfield earlier today
 
had said:
At this point, this rumor from last year is, for me, also more believable.
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It makes sense, given that the Eurofighter until very, very recently was catching up in the radar department. Something the newest upgrades and versions seem to fix. Also something that seems infinitely harder to do with the Rafale which has a much tighter space constraint imposed on such ideas.

IIRC the same J-10C got an entirely new radome over the A model, not just due to aerodynamic factors (working together with the DSI), but also because the new radar was most likely not compatible with the previous dimensions.

Big radars and big missiles go a long way. And having just one of these means not fully exploiting the capability of the other.
 
had said:
I was very tempted to engage with this question but did't want to spam the Kashmir/Bar-Thread.

I think it is not really a surprise. It’s more of an unwelcomed realization that the Chinese “on paper” achievements (in regards of radars and BVR missiles) could have been more than just propaganda.
At this point, this rumor from last year is, for me, also more believable.

Good for potential Chinese sales in the Middle East, bad for European fighter with small noses (problematic upgradability).
Click to expand...
I have attended two Anatolian Eagle exercises and one Indus Shield exercise. I've talked with several Turkish, Qatari, Pakistani, and Saudi pilots who flew against the J-10.

Every single one of them praised the plane and said how much of a monster that is. Turkish Block 50+ and Pakistani Block 52+ absolutely bodied by J-10. Turkish pilots used some very "vulgar" descriptions to explain the performance of the J-10, while Pakistani pilots told me it was an "eye-opening" moment for the PAF.

Until the J-10, they thought they could counter Rafale with the F-16 Block 52s, but the exercises proved otherwise. They also shared the performance of the J-10 with Italian and British Eurofighter pilots on various occasions. To me, people just deliberately turned a blind eye to what's obvious for years.
 
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had said:
I was very tempted to engage with this question but did't want to spam the Kashmir/Bar-Thread.

I think it is not really a surprise. It’s more of an unwelcomed realization that the Chinese “on paper” achievements (in regards of radars and BVR missiles) could have been more than just propaganda.
At this point, this rumor from last year is, for me, also more believable.

Good for potential Chinese sales in the Middle East, bad for European fighter with small noses (problematic upgradability).
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Hate to sound rude but China doesn’t really play up any of the capabilities and make outlandish claims. Most of the specs, even very basic ones, are never really disclosed. I mean yeah they’ll say that J-10 is good because it is their baby but they never claim something outrageous like it’s gonna body all western fighters. I don’t understand where the sentiment about propaganda even started.
 
siegecrossbow said:
Hate to sound rude but China doesn’t really play up any of the capabilities and make outlandish claims. Most of the specs, even very basic ones, are never really disclosed. I mean yeah they’ll say that J-10 is good because it is their baby but they never claim something outrageous like it’s gonna body all western fighters. I don’t understand where the sentiment about propaganda even started.
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You’ll get off the cuff remarks though, J-10 tends to beat the flanker in BFM, J-10 has better radar. Etc etc.
 
F-2 said:
You’ll get off the cuff remarks though, J-10 tends to beat the flanker in BFM, J-10 has better radar. Etc etc.
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Yeah but in terms of beating flanker it actually happened. And I don’t think the official sources (like AVIC and PLAAF) actually claimed that J-10C has superior radar to anything outside of PLAAF service. In fact they haven’t even confirmed the radar designation, even in 2025!
 
siegecrossbow said:
Yeah but in terms of beating flanker it actually happened. And I don’t think the official sources (like AVIC and PLAAF) actually claimed that J-10C has superior radar to anything outside of PLAAF service. In fact they haven’t even confirmed the radar designation, even in 2025!
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In the two days of the program,养鸡（yankeesama） mentioned that the radar for captive use is different from the radar for exported cE's. No surprise as far as Chinese equipment exports are concerned.
 
F-2 said:
You’ll get off the cuff remarks though, J-10 tends to beat the flanker in BFM, J-10 has better radar. Etc etc.
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F-2 said:
You’ll get off the cuff remarks though, J-10 tends to beat the flanker in BFM, J-10 has better radar. Etc etc.
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I remember that in the "Golden Helmet" competition of the People's Liberation Army, there is indeed a record of the J-10C defeating the early imported Su-30MKK.
 
pagliacci said:
I remember that in the "Golden Helmet" competition of the People's Liberation Army, there is indeed a record of the J-10C defeating the early imported Su-30MKK.
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Kinematics or durability aside, it's BVR performance in exercises is known to be roughly equal to that of the Su-35, which is a huge deal since the Su-35 is a twin engine heavy jet with that 1 meter diameter Irbis antenna and sheer power supply.

We've also heard about numerous instances from around 2019-2020 (if I remember correctly) where a J-16 pilot reported locking onto a J-7 (i.e. a 3 sqm target/roughly an armed F-16) from about 300 kilometers away with -probably- an older gen GaAs radar.
 
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Single-seat, single-engine, good BVR performance, poor showing from Russian jets in Ukraine... I see a robust export market for those who can't afford a 5th Gen fighter and can't buy the F-16, the market previously cornered by the Mig-29.
 
snne said:
Kinematics or durability aside, it's BVR performance in exercises is known to be roughly equal to that of the Su-35, which is a huge deal since the Su-35 is a twin engine heavy jet with that 1 meter diameter Irbis antenna and sheer power supply.

We've also heard about numerous instances from around 2019-2020 (if I remember correctly) where a J-16 pilot reported locking onto a J-7 (i.e. a 3 sqm target/roughly an armed F-16) from about 300 kilometers away with -probably- an older gen GaAs radar.
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Not exactly true. In detection range maybe. But radars are not just about detection range. There is a big gap between AESA and PESA, and arguably an even bigger one between digital AESA (crappy translation of Chinese term) and analog AESA. Guess which variant J-10C’s unnamed radar has?
 

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