Sukhoi Su-57 flight testing and development

t.me

ПАО «ОАК»

Намасте, Индия ОАК примет участие в выставке Аэроиндия-2025 в Бангалоре. Показываем наш мегакрутой Су-57Э в летной программе и в статике, а также интерактивный ВР-тренажер Су-57Э в составе объединенной российской экспозиции.
t.me t.me
 
flateric said:
t.me

ПАО «ОАК»

Намасте, Индия ОАК примет участие в выставке Аэроиндия-2025 в Бангалоре. Показываем наш мегакрутой Су-57Э в летной программе и в статике, а также интерактивный ВР-тренажер Су-57Э в составе объединенной российской экспозиции.
t.me t.me
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UAC will take part in the AeroIndia-2025 exhibition in Bangalore.

We are showing our mega-cool Su-57E in the flight program and in statics, as well as an interactive VR simulator Su-57E as part of the joint Russian exposition.
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F-14ATomcat said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEV_w2Dhmk
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You don't see this every day...

GjRXyw1XoAAUjHw


https://twitter.com/x/status/1888208238958575809
View: https://x.com/ShivAroor/status/1888208238958575809
 
Why take off time has to be merit in the first place ? Why not the takeoff run length with a defined load e.g some 6000 kg of fuel and say, full complement of internal bay load maybe 4x Izd 810 ?. Those kind of accounts are rather annoying tbh and their target market are no less annoying.
 
stealthflanker said:
Why take off time has to be merit in the first place ? Why not the takeoff run length with a defined load e.g some 6000 kg of fuel and say, full complement of internal bay load maybe 4x Izd 810 ?. Those kind of accounts are rather annoying tbh and their target market are no less annoying.
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That's exactly it. Showing parts(take off/landing) of this feature:

99562-4e3f0afcbdcd6d07c30809eb6a30ce6b.jpg
 
The Russians have such crap marketing, literally some of the worst in the world. Some countries especially the Indians love shiny things. The Russians should have brought a production model that has much superior build quality and finish compared to the 054. In China the international press was clowning on the “SU-57” and its poor build quality. Not good when civilian politicians have a lot of say in arms procurements especially in a corrupt countries such as India.

Ideally the Russians should have got a serial model and at least put on some mock ups of the new engines. Bogdan could have also warn the new prototype helmet instead of that junk from the 1980s and perhaps even put some IAF decals on the static model but as I said, the Russians have shit marketing and often never even bother providing data such as air to air kills like the US does with the F-15 claiming it has 104 air to air kills to no losses.

It’s like they don’t even put any effort into anything other than air show stunts that everyone seen a million times already.
 
That is 100% the case . T50-4 is definetly not static show exibit , while it can absolutely wow in the air. They did bring actual engines to show off.
 
Mr.T said:
That is 100% the case . T50-4 is definetly not static show exibit , while it can absolutely wow in the air. They did bring actual engines to show off.
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They brought the flat nose nozzles? The Indians backed out of the park-fa project for a reason. If you look at the Indians they always upgrade their aircraft with modern western helmets and even western engines and avionics, my guess is the Russians refused to allow the Indians to modify the SU-57 in that manner.

Looking back 5 to 10 years ago there was nothing spectacular about the Pak-fa other then maybe its side radars and maneuverability. Since then the Russians have demonstrated new flat engines and a new helmet system which both seem impressive. The new cruise missiles design for the SU-57 also look impressive and so does the air to air missiles.

There was so much the Russians could have brought to show but it seems they missed the mark. The Indians would definitely be interested in the new engines, helmet and weapons systems. What about showing off the SU-57s combat record over Ukraine? The Russians could have advertised air to air kills, sorties and ground strikes. Like I said we seen these air show stunts a million times and the Indians themselves already operate SU-30MKIs that can perform similar maneuvers….Sukhoi should have brought something new to the table and not the same old circus act…for lack of better words.
 
Galaxy said:
They brought the flat nose nozzles? The Indians backed out of the park-fa project for a reason. If you look at the Indians they always upgrade their aircraft with modern western helmets and even western engines and avionics, my guess is the Russians refused to allow the Indians to modify the SU-57 in that manner.

Looking back 5 to 10 years ago there was nothing spectacular about the Pak-fa other then maybe its side radars and maneuverability. Since then the Russians have demonstrated new flat engines and a new helmet system which both seem impressive. The new cruise missiles design for the SU-57 also look impressive and so does the air to air missiles.

There was so much the Russians could have brought to show but it seems they missed the mark. The Indians would definitely be interested in the new engines, helmet and weapons systems. What about showing off the SU-57s combat record over Ukraine? The Russians could have advertised air to air kills, sorties and ground strikes. Like I said we seen these air show stunts a million times and the Indians themselves already operate SU-30MKIs that can perform similar maneuvers….Sukhoi should have brought something new to the table and not the same old circus act…for lack of better words.
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I agree with you , but there is probably more happening behind the scenes , given their dealings with India they likely have some idea who the descision makers and influencers are and what they are looking for , Indians likely had a chance to visit and look at genuine article in Russia. And we can be certain tall tales from Ukraine are being told just like US sales men do for their product.


Engines are there as its one of the main items of interest to India , for many projects ,as it is retrofitable to Su35 , there is potential for huge reengining business
Gj-Z92-Pu-XEAAx-I1-X.jpg
Gj-Z92-MHWQAAOj-CR.jpg Gj-Z92-MRWMAAEm-EQ.jpg
 
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Galaxy said:
The Russians have such crap marketing, literally some of the worst in the world. Some countries especially the Indians love shiny things. The Russians should have brought a production model that has much superior build quality and finish compared to the 054. In China the international press was clowning on the “SU-57” and its poor build quality. Not good when civilian politicians have a lot of say in arms procurements especially in a corrupt countries such as India.

Ideally the Russians should have got a serial model and at least put on some mock ups of the new engines. Bogdan could have also warn the new prototype helmet instead of that junk from the 1980s and perhaps even put some IAF decals on the static model but as I said, the Russians have shit marketing and often never even bother providing data such as air to air kills like the US does with the F-15 claiming it has 104 air to air kills to no losses.

It’s like they don’t even put any effort into anything other than air show stunts that everyone seen a million times already.
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In fact, almost all countries promote prototype aircraft at air shows, including the US
( sorry for going off topic)
 
Galaxy said:
Looking back 5 to 10 years ago there was nothing spectacular about the Pak-fa other then maybe its side radars and maneuverability. Since then the Russians have demonstrated new flat engines and a new helmet system which both seem impressive. The new cruise missiles design for the SU-57 also look impressive and so does the air to air missiles.
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Rant mode on.

...rear array(for 360 coverage and more array estate than dedicated NGJs), side L arrays(~240 coverage), spherical optics in two bands(UV, mwIR), dual-band frontal irst(mw/lwir), spherical DIRCM, full integration (system design, data fusion, cross use for different subsystems) for everything above, active countermeasures as designed, actual flight and stol performance worthy of its generation, comprehendive weapon suite working earlier than 10 years after IOC, and LO. Helmet was also always there, too, the difference is you now got to see it in production form. As are other normal generation features no one bothers to mention.

A lot of things you've missed. All of them designed in since 2001, well known for more than a decade. All much more important for the aircraft than flat nozzles.
It makes your final assessment questionable, as you were clearly gauging some other aircraft.

Absolute majority of people coming to this thread with their opinions - don't even have wiki level knowledge on the subject(or do, and come somewhat overenthusiastic). Then it takes several pages of amazing discoveries.

It's one thing when someone comes to ask, but for judgements normally it's polite to at least make some research first?

And it happens over and over and over.
 
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Galaxy said:
They brought the flat nose nozzles? The Indians backed out of the park-fa project for a reason. If you look at the Indians they always upgrade their aircraft with modern western helmets and even western engines and avionics, my guess is the Russians refused to allow the Indians to modify the SU-57 in that manner.
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What Indian wants was actually more extreme tbh. They want brand new aircraft beyond the baseline T-50, and in JV scheme where Russians Indians share is 50:50.

The sanity of the Russians prevail as such effort would yield aircraft that Russia wont use or wont be using in near term yet having to bear 50% of the RnD cost. Indian got a whole new fighter with 50% of RnD cost.

Also no.. in respect of engine.. Su-30MKI and MiG's are still Russian engines. MiG-27 dont get Western engine. Tejas was designed with Western engine from the get go. Especially that Russia doesnt really interested in furthering RnD on RD-33 family.
 
Ainen said:
Rant mode on.

...rear array(for 360 coverage and more array estate than dedicated NGJs), side L arrays(~240 coverage), spherical optics in two bands(UV, mwIR), dual-band frontal irst(mw/lwir), spherical DIRCM, full integration (system design, data fusion, cross use for different subsystems) for everything above, active countermeasures as designed, actual flight and stol performance worthy of its generation, comprehendive weapon suite working earlier than 10 years after IOC, and LO. Helmet was also always there, too, the difference is you now got to see it in production form. As are other normal generation features no one bothers to mention.

A lot of things you've missed. All of them designed in since 2001, well known for more than a decade. All much more important for the aircraft than flat nozzles.
It makes your final assessment questionable, as you were clearly gauging some other aircraft.

Absolute majority of people coming to this thread with their opinions - don't even have wiki level knowledge on the subject(or do, and come somewhat overenthusiastic). Then it takes several pages of amazing discoveries.

It's one thing when someone comes to ask, but for judgements normally it's polite to at least make some research first?

And it happens over and over and over.
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Try reading my opinion carefully before going on a hysterical episode. I didn’t go into extreme detail about every sensor suit because even 9 years ago aircraft like the F-35 had similar or better sensors in operational use. Like I said the only revolutionary feature the pak-fa had to offer was side facing radars and perhaps a rear facing radar. The Russians may have had features like flat nozzles or new helmets in the design or concept phases when the Indians showed interest but talk is cheap and Russia has a history of cancelling projects so you can’t blame India for backing out.

The new engines are also arguably just as important as any sensor because they reduce IR and RCS thus increasing survivability. Not to mention they have improved efficiency, super cruise, and reduced maintenance.

Thats damn important, that should be a showcase feature and not an after thought. Like I said before the marketing department at Sukhoi is dogs shit. Western manufacturers allways show off prototype equipment that’s years away from becoming a reality like helmets, they always show aircraft with good build quality and not prototypes with mismatched panels, exposed screws everywhere, large gaps and seems, ect.

Sukhoi seems more interested in air show stunts than marketing and showing the best they have in terms of capabilities.
 
donnage99 said:
@Ainen which aperture provides MWIR frontal can you provide source thanks?
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It's two.
First is OLS-50M by NIIP (101-KS-V, Vozdukh, i.e. air2air). Main air to air sensor.
Second is 101KS-P, wide angle imaging sensor tuned for low level flight and austere landing(F-15M/STD analogy here from the picture above).

I'll look for text source when i'll get to my proper laptop, iirc one of the books.
For now - traditional visual guide.
su57-serial-electronics.jpg

Ronny said:
To be fair though, do we know for sure that the frontal IRST is dual band MWIR and LWIR?, it seem like the system is MWIR similar to EOTS.
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Same as above, specific link needs books to check. I'll try to get home in 1-2 days.
It's quite unlike EOTS though(a dedicated a2a targeting/sensor and maybe more), as EOTS "analog" for 57 is the external 101KS-N pod.
 
@Ainen I misread your original statement. I was assuming you were answering in the context of sensors aiding directly in air to air combat. But yes 101KS-P makes sense but OLS-50 in MWIR? Wouldn't it make more sense in LWIR?

2) Also the idea of a spherical coverage in UV/MWIR doesn't make alot of sense unless the MWIR sensors are really really bad. Any competent MWIR sensors providing spherical coverage would provide good MLD, negating any need for UV sensors.

3) I believe picture from Mariwoj is conjecture with heavy dose of fanboyism and then some. Unless you only cited to show where 101KS-P is then that's correct. Thank you.
 
The question that wasn't asked here, were both the F-35 and Su-57 flying at the same time in the airshow? I am hearing reports the F-35 didn't fly, is it because they don't want the stealth compromised?
 
donnage99 said:
@Ainen I misread your original statement. I was assuming you were answering in the context of sensors aiding directly in air to air combat. But yes 101KS-P makes sense but OLS-50 in MWIR? Wouldn't it make more sense in LWIR?
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Disclaimer: "Why" are my explanations, not coming from elsewhere. I am not an engineer by education or profession.

OLS-27/35 (or, for instance, Rafale OPF) are mwir, too.
If the goal is (weapon grade) WVR targeting and not just long range detection with compact sensor, mwir is better - better resolution, excellent performance in clear atmosphere(matching and complementing pilot's view). It also matches missile sensors and lrf.
donnage99 said:
2) Also the idea of a spherical coverage in UV/MWIR doesn't make alot of sense unless the MWIR sensors are really really bad. Any competent MWIR sensors providing spherical coverage would provide good MLD, negating any need for UV sensors.
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UV sensors are wide/constant FoV, providing persistent observation(6 appertures in 4 blocks).

IR is 3 balls, doing proper line scans (there are videos with them doing high speed rotation, doing IRST things), and they have other duties. In operation IR balls may need to stare and track, abandoning scan duties - for their DIRCM and likely HMD purposes. Doing so leaves airspace unobserved, and skipping launch warning isn't nice.

Finally, Su-57 is built around mixing(fusing) as much spectral bands as possible; more is merrier, overcoming band disadvantages, if you're ready to pay for it.
Unlike the normal fighter norm, Felon isn't built on "reasonable minimum" basis.
donnage99 said:
3) I believe picture from Mariwoj is conjecture with heavy dose of fanboyism and then some. Unless you only cited to show where 101KS-P is then that's correct. Thank you.
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It's a very faithful representation of available English sources (apparently he reads Russian, too).
It matches E. Gordon book (Butowski books and articles), If you're interested, I strongly suggest the former book for cross reference and further details.
 
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Ainen said:
dual-band frontal irst(mw/lwir),
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Front IRST unit of Su-57, 101KS-V most likely not dual band because windows transparent to LWIR are usually germanium which is a dark color and opaque in visible spectrum, or for dual-band MWIR/LWIR, zinc selenide which is yellow color also mostly opaque in visible spectrum. While the 101KS-V bulb is clear and transparent in visible spectrum which probably means MWIR only system.

The L-band IFF antennas aren't unique to Su-57, similar to Band 2 arrays on other fighters.
 
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RadicalDisconnect said:
Front IRST unit of Su-57, 101KS-V most likely not dual band because windows transparent to LWIR are usually germanium which is a dark color and opaque in visible spectrum, or for dual-band MWIR/LWIR, zinc selenide which is yellow color also mostly opaque in visible spectrum. While the 101KS-V bulb is clear and transparent in visible spectrum which probably means MWIR only system.
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Agree, here are some photo of IR dome to illustrate your point better:
Gray opaque one is Magnesium fluoride, often used on missile seekers since it is only transparent to infrared at very short wavelength
Mgf dome.PNG

Germanium dome on LWIR system like Pirate, IRST-21, AAS-41
germanium dome.png

Zinc Sulfide or Zinc selenide dome often used on system that operate in both MWIR and LWIR spectrum since it has very wide transparency window to infrared radiation. Often have opaque yellow color. For example: FSO and Skyguard
Screenshot 2025-02-12 111708.png
Screenshot 2025-02-12 112846.png

Sapphire dome, often used on MWIR system since it has better transmittance than Zinc Sulfide but narrower transparency bandwidth. It won't let LWIR go through
mfc-F-35-sensors_eots_afa.jpg.pc-adaptive.768.medium.jpg

donnage99 said:
in the context of sensors aiding directly in air to air combat. But yes 101KS-P makes sense but OLS-50 in MWIR? Wouldn't it make more sense in LWIR?
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LWIR sensor can see target with cooler temperature but MWIR sensor can see target better in clutter (cloud, background surface ..etc)
In short, for target at higher altitude then LWIR is often better, for target at lower altitude then MWIR is often better
lwir2.png
 
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Ainen said:
UV sensors are wide/constant FoV, providing persistent observation(6 appertures in 4 blocks).

IR is 3 balls, doing proper line scans (there are videos with them doing high speed rotation, doing IRST things), and they have other duties. In operation IR balls may need to stare and track, abandoning scan duties - for their DIRCM and likely HMD purposes. Doing so leaves airspace unobserved, and skipping launch warning isn't nice.
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That just tells me that these MWIR sensors aren't good enough then. There is inherent physics that scanning range is shorter than focused tracking range. However, If MWIR has good resolution, digital zoom can allow for simultaneous track and scan out to pretty good range (tactically relevant) as with f-35's DAS.

Constant FoV track and scan, MLD in one system rather than this awkward UV based sensors just for MLD on top of IR based apertures.

Ainen said:
It's a very faithful representation of available English sources (apparently he reads Russian, too).
It matches E. Gordon book (Butowski books and articles), If you're interested, I strongly suggest the former book for cross reference and further details.
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Where did he get all the placements of the L-band arrays? It certainly doesn't pass the smell test for IFF system. And as for this "satellite jamming capability" he listed, I only found one such statement else where on his website that states "it can be used" purely from the fact that it's L-band which is more fan fiction than any logical deduction of an unbiased mind.
 
Now the question is in what configuration Algeria will receive them.
They will certainly not be the same aircraft as have been produced for VKS so far.
- with renewed MIRES and successor of 101KS?
- with a new cockpit with one "three-piece WAD"?
- with izd. 177?
...
We'll see in a few months.
 
Ronny said:
LWIR sensor can see target with cooler temperature but MWIR sensor can see target better in clutter (cloud, background surface ..etc)
In short, for target at higher altitude then LWIR is often better, for target at lower altitude then MWIR is often better
View attachment 759260
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Uh, no. LWIR can see through clouds, whereas MWIR cannot, hence as to why LWIR is used by firefighters, for example. MWIR has better resolution, albeit in ideal conditions, but there's actually an incredibly cheap & easy way to drastically improve both the range & resolution of LWIR. It's really cool stuff.
 

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