OceanGate Expeditions Titan DSV loss

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...-has-taught-us-about-exploring-the-deep-ocean
Victor Vescovo weighs in.

A year later, many ask: "How has the incident changed deep-water exploration?"
There are two answers.
The first is: "I very much hope, not much."

[...]

There is a second way the loss of the Titan could affect deep ocean exploration. The accident, in an almost eerie way, repeated many of the elements that contributed to the tragedy of the Titanic over a hundred years before it. However, the disaster could – and should – have a similar positive effect on future worldwide safety regulations.
 
He starts the article quoting James Cameron:

"[The Ocean] is a place where you've got to really know your stuff before you can step outside the box. You don't move fast and break things, as they say in Silicon Valley, if the thing you're going to break has got you inside it."
– Deep-ocean explorer, scientist and film-maker James Cameron, appearing on 60 Minutes Australia, 9 June 2024
 
Rhinocrates said:
He starts the article quoting James Cameron:

"[The Ocean] is a place where you've got to really know your stuff before you can step outside the box. You don't move fast and break things, as they say in Silicon Valley, if the thing you're going to break has got you inside it."
– Deep-ocean explorer, scientist and film-maker James Cameron, appearing on 60 Minutes Australia, 9 June 2024
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And that is exactly why navies are the most conservative and resistant to change out of all the military branches.
 
Bottom line (no pun intended, but both incidental and topical) - an overconfident egomaniac too full of himself (it's always guys, not gals, isn't it though???) ended up killing himself as well as some overly trusting individuals in a spectacular accident making headline news.
 
martinbayer said:
Bottom line (no pun intended, but both incidental and topical) - an overconfident egomaniac too full of himself (it's always guys, not gals, isn't it though???) ended up killing himself as well as some overly trusting individuals in a spectacular accident making headline news.
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"Ignore regulations, go fast and break things!" sounds sexy until its people that break,
 
publiusr said:
The woman from Theranos (Holmes) could sure give folks the evil eye...she never blinked.
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Weirdly looking at random people in some work of pulp fiction or other with a stink eye is not quite on the same level of recklessness/depravity as proactively luring them onto your dinky deathtrap submersible in real life (and death)...
 
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martinbayer said:
Weirdly looking at random people in some work of pulp fiction or other with a stink eye is not quite on the same level of recklessness/depravity as proactively luring them onto your dinky deathtrap submersible in real life (and death)...
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As opposed to claiming to be doing medical testing that your sample is physically not large enough to accommodate? Which means Theranos was completely making shit up in medical tests.

I can think of higher levels of depraved indifference to human life, but not many. Like that bastard Wakefield who started the whole "vaccines cause autism" bullshit. That (3.2TB of profanity deleted) knowingly caused the deaths of children from preventable diseases just so he could have a bigger bank balance. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Scott Kenny said:
As opposed to claiming to be doing medical testing that your sample is physically not large enough to accommodate? Which means Theranos was completely making shit up in medical tests.

I can think of higher levels of depraved indifference to human life, but not many. Like that bastard Wakefield who started the whole "vaccines cause autism" bullshit. That (3.2TB of profanity deleted) knowingly caused the deaths of children from preventable diseases just so he could have a bigger bank balance. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
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Thanks ( I guess?), Scott, I have to admit that I really don't follow any medical (pseudo) news at all these days, so all that potential Theranos comic book character bull crap rabbit hole pseudo argument really wasn't weighing on my mind *at all* in the discussion above - my focus was firmly on extreme environments technologies *IN ACTUAL REALITY* (you know, as in the physical universe we actually live in, as opposed to some overweight short sighted pony tailed bearded Simpsons Comic Book Guy character virtual dreamworld?) as indicated by the very title of this thread as opposed to any pharmaceuticals, but I graciously do both see and at the same time vigorously not agree with your point(?) above.
 
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Getting hopes up of sick folks is vile.

The danger of deep submersibles I would think would be obvious to the layman.
 
martinbayer said:
Thanks ( I guess?), Scott, I have to admit that I really don't follow any medical (pseudo) news at all these days, so all that potential Theranos comic book character bull crap rabbit hole pseudo argument really wasn't weighing on my mind *at all* in the discussion above - my focus was firmly on extreme environments technologies *IN ACTUAL REALITY* (you know, as in the physical universe we actually live in, as opposed to some overweight short sighted pony tailed bearded Simpsons Comic Book Guy character virtual dreamworld?) as indicated by the very title of this thread as opposed to any pharmaceuticals, but I graciously do both see and at the same time vigorously not agree with your point(?) above.
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As someone who has worked in our health care system, I can from experience state that 'making shit up' is a common occurence.

More so since the priority health condition setup was enacted but lying to get more funds for the department or the contractor is a fact of life.

Why do you think there are so many business interests in gp sugery ooperations, some being turned into mega centres?

Look for studies yourself, for example the lies told by doctors about exposure to nuclear tests on exposed service members. The deformities in children born to those service members etc.

M.E., for years explained as the patient being "Lazy".

We can all stick our heads in the sand but frankly the system has always been broken.
 
Arjen said:
'The layman' will put artificial sweetener in hummingbird feeders instead of a sugar solution. To keep the birds' teeth from rotting.
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"Quand les poules auront des dents !" - french equivalent of "when pigs fly !" - except with hens and teeth.
 
quellish said:
Carbon fiber with large masses of metal on each end = lightning magnet
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And just to elaborate further, the submersible was transported to the dive site by towing it behind the support ship. During that transit is when it was likely struck by lightning
 
quellish said:
And just to elaborate further, the submersible was transported to the dive site by towing it behind the support ship. During that transit is when it was likely struck by lightning
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Seems odd. Why wouldn't they haul the submersible to the site as deck cargo?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Seems odd. Why wouldn't they haul the submersible to the site as deck cargo?
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Expense. The support ships are typically a very large part of the expense of operating a submersible. Rather than have their own ship with appropriate crane, safety equipment, hangar, etc. they could rent something with few customizations.
 
quellish said:
Expense. The support ships are typically a very large part of the expense of operating a submersible. Rather than have their own ship with appropriate crane, safety equipment, hangar, etc. they could rent something with few customizations.
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And spend more days at sea dragging the submersible to the dive site.

Plus, the way their toy worked, it had to be completely out of the water and landed on the deck to load crew and bolt the access hatch down (fuck, just typing that sent a twinge down my back!)
 
Flyaway said:
Scott Manley has done a video on this matter:

View: https://youtu.be/CxBtZmyPzVA?si=XcMPV2zXzXjzHtwE
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As I allready wrote in #388 #351, the conection of the endccaps with the carbon cylinder was very likely the critical area. There have been several videos out there which showed an implosion in the middle of the cylinder, but this would have been very unlogic. It's not like pressing a beer can, the pressure acts even from all directions, so this section is not endared like the connection itself. Here, we must make sure, that the compression of the titan end caps is exactly like that of the carbon cylinder (hard to realize, when you take a look on the flange geometry), we must avoid pressing on the fibres directly (which means, we have to press on plastic) and any leakege of water into the fibres woudl cause delamination and destruction.
 
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Lightning may have turned Travolta into a genius, it failed to repeat the move with Stockton Rush. Well it probably fried a brain that already lacked a lot of brain cells.
 
Apparently the vision port had already 'fallen off' so I would take from that, safety being blatantly ignored. Not exactly a blazing advertisement for the lackmof oversight in design and build.

The accident occured in international waters but, the operation and financial holdings, are definitely onshore. What a bloody waste.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Plus, the way their toy worked, it had to be completely out of the water and landed on the deck to load crew and bolt the access hatch down (fuck, just typing that sent a twinge down my back!)
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Had somebody did an ROV that way, they'd likely get fired. I don't recall any big problems with the Akademik Keldysh
 
quellish said:
And just to elaborate further, the submersible was transported to the dive site by towing it behind the support ship. During that transit is when it was likely struck by lightning
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After some clarification from OceanGate and some checking of dates, it looks like the April 2018 lightning strike probably involved the hull before the one actually used in the ill-fated "expedition." I'm not sure if that one went to sea or not.
 
Graham1973 said:
Further commentary from the Scott Manley channel.

View: https://youtu.be/FAAQVntpk00?si=8-gCKDj1XDn32K-v
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You *always* check the hull after a big hull pop.

Even on 19000 tons of steel... Had one of the parts very blatantly move, it vibrated like a guitar string after it popped. Scary as hell... IIRC they adjusted the soft mounts so that piece could move more easily instead of getting stuck and then slamming around.
 
A "toxic workplace culture" was one of several contributing factors that led to the implosion of the Titan submersible on its way to the Titanic, a report has said.

The US Coast Guard Marine Board of Investigation (MBI) said in its report into the June 2023 implosion that "the loss of five lives was preventable".


The 335-page report went on to make 17 safety recommendations, which MBI chairman Jason Neubauer said will help prevent future tragedies.

"There is a need for stronger oversight and clear options for operators who are exploring new concepts outside of the existing regulatory framework," he said in a statement.

Investigators found that the submersible's design, certification, maintenance and inspection process were all inadequate.
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https://news.sky.com/story/flatplan-13407220
From the BBC:

Here are 10 key takeaways from the lengthy 335-page report:

  • OceanGate failed to follow established engineering protocols for safety, testing, and maintenance of their submersible, which the US Coast Guard says was the primary causal factor
  • The sub's sudden implosion was caused by the loss of "structural integrity" - everyone on board was exposed to approximately 4,930 pounds per square inch of water pressure, resulting in the "instantaneous death" of all five
  • CEO Stockton Rush, who died onboard the Titan submersible in June 2023, was able to ignore vital inspections, data analyses and preventive maintenance procedures
  • Investigators analysed the technical aspect of the Titan submersible and described its carbon fibre-made design as "flawed" adding that the company did not follow up on signs of problems within the vehicle which had surfaced in previous months
  • Part of the problem was OceanGate's "toxic work place environment which used firings of senior staff members and the looming threat of being fired to dissuade employees and contractors from expressing safety concerns"
  • Mounting financial pressures on the company in 2023 resulted in an increased risk to Titan's hull and its operations
  • OceanGate employees were asked totemporarily forgo salaries with the promise of back pay
  • One ex-staff member told investigators: "The company was economically very stressed and as a result, [they] were making decisions that compromised safety"
  • Both domestic and international regulatory frameworks for submersible operations were "insufficient to address the complexities of modern submersible technologies and practices" when the Titan tragedy happened
  • Finally, had Rush survived the incident, investigators would have recommended that the Department of Justice consider on whether to pursue a separate criminal investigation adding that he could have been subject to criminal liability
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