Typ XXI being probably achevied(or at least commissioned) by the russian

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sgeorges4

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Date of 'loss' is intriguing. Something afoot perhaps. Evidence is another thing entirely though.
 
"For both East and West, the modern submarine originated in German U-boat designs obtained at the end of World War II." See: Cold War Submarines: The Design and Construction of U.S. and Soviet Submarines, 1945-2001 by Norman Polmar and K.J. Moore.
 
U-3543 through U-3554 had their work suspended on 29 January 1945.

In March 1945, the prefabricated sections built/half built for those boats were captured by Russian forces in Danzig.

Enough parts were there to justify several U-Boat hulls being redesignated on 12 February 1946 as:

TS-13
TS-15
TS-17
TS-18
TS-19
TS-32
TS-33
TS-34
TS-35
TS-36
TS-37
TS-38

The hulls/parts were taken to the USSR as part of Project 614 by Leningrad TsKB-18 to study refurbishment/completion of incomplete sections of Type XXI submarines with Russian equipment. In the end, they decided to go with their own design (WHISKEY) and the incomplete hulks were stricken in April 1947 and scrapped.
 
Under the Potsdam Agreement, the Russians acquired U-2529, U-3035, U-3041 and U-3515, redesignated as R 27, 28, 29 and 30.
 
edwest said:
"For both East and West, the modern submarine originated in German U-boat designs obtained at the end of World War II." See: Cold War Submarines: The Design and Construction of U.S. and Soviet Submarines, 1945-2001 by Norman Polmar and K.J. Moore.
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Norman has pretty good connections to Soviet era Russia sub builders in the post-CW world. In this book, he concludes that, contrary to US Navy intelligence estimates, the Type XXI hull sections were not turned into actual subs and we're eventually disposed of. That agrees with Ryan's post, so I'd be quite confident that they are both correct.
 
TomS said:
edwest said:
"For both East and West, the modern submarine originated in German U-boat designs obtained at the end of World War II." See: Cold War Submarines: The Design and Construction of U.S. and Soviet Submarines, 1945-2001 by Norman Polmar and K.J. Moore.
Click to expand...

Norman has pretty good connections to Soviet era Russia sub builders in the post-CW world. In this book, he concludes that, contrary to US Navy intelligence estimates, the Type XXI hull sections were not turned into actual subs and we're eventually disposed of. That agrees with Ryan's post, so I'd be quite confident that they are both correct.
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So from what I understand no typ XXI section were used to build typ XXI by the russian (I don't know if my english is right here)
 
Get this book: U-Boottyp XXI by Eberhard Rössler. The Russians got their war booty.
 
sgeorges4 said:
TomS said:
edwest said:
"For both East and West, the modern submarine originated in German U-boat designs obtained at the end of World War II." See: Cold War Submarines: The Design and Construction of U.S. and Soviet Submarines, 1945-2001 by Norman Polmar and K.J. Moore.
Click to expand...

Norman has pretty good connections to Soviet era Russia sub builders in the post-CW world. In this book, he concludes that, contrary to US Navy intelligence estimates, the Type XXI hull sections were not turned into actual subs and we're eventually disposed of. That agrees with Ryan's post, so I'd be quite confident that they are both correct.
Click to expand...

So from what I understand no typ XXI section were used to build typ XXI by the russian (I don't know if my english is right here)
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I believe that is accurate. They thought about it (and about making some Type XXVIs as well) but went with their own designs instead. They just couldn't replicate the German hardware precisely enough to supplement the parts they did have and it made more sense to take the lessons learned and adapt to their own industrial processes and capabilities.
 
Thanks,they could still have "probably" achevied those in the list since they were pretty much complete and using them for trial for the whiskey ,I also know that the russian intended to copy the typ XXI with the project 614 (for me it's basicly a russian typ XVIII) ,now what would a typ XXI achevied by the russian would look like? For me: - no flak ,- russian color used for the hull ,some german equipment not in place
 
There is an entry on Project 614 on the Deepstorm site.
From the description there AA guns were still to be fitted, probably Soviet 25mm I would presume.
 
Something related but not directly. Is there any evidence of Type XXI's being fitted with the rubber tiles/coating tested with one of the Type VIIC's, I think U-483 from memory? She was apparently lost in a minefield off the UK coast after resisting attempts at locating her by standard measures of the day. I have a feeling this might have made the XXI's much more effective.
 
A plan of Project 614 I came across in my files.
It looks like AA guns were to be fitted but they seem to be in different mounts on top of the conning tower structure.
 

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gantu said:
This pic above is an Type XVIII.
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The Type XXI hull was essentially developed from that of the Type XVIII but instead of the Walter turbine they were packed with batteries instead of HTP and diesel fuel in the lower lobe of the double-hull layout.
In the picture I posted the double-storey battery compartments which indicate this to be of Type XXI lineage are clearly obvious. Whether this is a Type XXI or a genuine Project 614 plan is open to interpretation though.
 
Thanks for showing that but honestly, it could be an unpublished ufo. Not enough detail to see what is what at the moment. Can you post something sharper please?
 

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