German Mistel & Piggy-Back Projects & Prototypes

hesham

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
26 May 2006
Messages
38,288
Reaction score
20,425
From Waffen Arsenal; Mistel The Piggy-Back Aircraft of the Luftwaffe.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    85.3 KB · Views: 477
  • 10.png
    10.png
    50 KB · Views: 218
  • 9.png
    9.png
    77.2 KB · Views: 179
  • 8.png
    8.png
    56.8 KB · Views: 178
  • 7.png
    7.png
    88.6 KB · Views: 173
  • 6.png
    6.png
    81.6 KB · Views: 167
  • 5.png
    5.png
    77.7 KB · Views: 354
  • 4.png
    4.png
    72.1 KB · Views: 369
  • 3.png
    3.png
    99.4 KB · Views: 379
  • 2.png
    2.png
    85.3 KB · Views: 394
And,
 

Attachments

  • 16.png
    16.png
    68.1 KB · Views: 182
  • 15.png
    15.png
    146.2 KB · Views: 171
  • 14.png
    14.png
    91.6 KB · Views: 159
  • 13.png
    13.png
    113.3 KB · Views: 178
  • 12.png
    12.png
    108.2 KB · Views: 189
  • 11.png
    11.png
    53.7 KB · Views: 202
From Aerei Nell Storia 4-5/2007,

the Junkers Mistel patent and Mistel 3c.
 

Attachments

  • 2.png
    2.png
    228.3 KB · Views: 192
  • 1.png
    1.png
    289.4 KB · Views: 171
Chris Chris said:
Henschel Hs 130 E with Henschel Hs 315 A
Click to expand...

This is fake and a fantasy project by a german author ("Friedrich Georg", it´s a pseudonym) back in 2009. He has published it in a right-wing publisher. Georg´s method is to gather all details, indications for all the "german miracle weapons", he is searching for (german atomic bomb, hydrogen bomb, nazi manned spaceflight etc.) and when he got a certain number of such "evidences" he claims: "now we have the proof!" Here it happened the same way: someone claimed to have seen some strange "longe-range glider" at the Luftwaffe airfield in Zerbst. They had a strange tail. The F.G. saw a foto in an old publication (from the 1970´s). In the background are some strange german "wonder-weapons" and then he found some clues, that it must have something to do with Henschel. So, now we have it. One can read this "chain of reasoning" in his book "Hitlers Siegeswaffen" (Hitlers Victoryweapons), 2 vols. This drawing is made by him and has no real background (and a.f.a.i.k. the designation HS 315A is also his invention).
 
Just because a piggy back composite project is German and dates from the Nazi era, does not make it a part of the Mistel project.
Mistel (Mistletoe) was a Junkers initiative to re-purpose old Ju 88 airframes as cruise missiles, controlled for all but the final minutes by a smaller piloted jockey aircraft mounted on the upper fuselage. Variants flown included several using the Bf 109 or FW 190 as the jockey, some operationally. I do not know what others Junkers worked on, but if it was not theirs then it was not a Mistel. Several of the images posted to date appear to depict carrier aircraft air-launching a smaller operational "sharp end", which has been a common enough proposal where the payload craft has insufficient range to reach its target, but was not to my recollection ever flown under this regime (except possibly maybe the odd V-1?) and were certainly never part of the Mistel project.
A useful summary from 1977 is provided by Tony Wood & Bill Gunston's Hitler's Luftwaffe, published by Salamander. No doubt there are Junkers design studies which never made it into that book, and I would love to see more about them here.
 
athpilot said:
Chris Chris said:
Henschel Hs 130 E with Henschel Hs 315 A
Click to expand...

This is fake and a fantasy project by a german author ("Friedrich Georg", it´s a pseudonym) back in 2009. He has published it in a right-wing publisher. Georg´s method is to gather all details, indications for all the "german miracle weapons", he is searching for (german atomic bomb, hydrogen bomb, nazi manned spaceflight etc.) and when he got a certain number of such "evidences" he claims: "now we have the proof!" Here it happened the same way: someone claimed to have seen some strange "longe-range glider" at the Luftwaffe airfield in Zerbst. They had a strange tail. The F.G. saw a foto in an old publication (from the 1970´s). In the background are some strange german "wonder-weapons" and then he found some clues, that it must have something to do with Henschel. So, now we have it. One can read this "chain of reasoning" in his book "Hitlers Siegeswaffen" (Hitlers Victoryweapons), 2 vols. This drawing is made by him and has no real background (and a.f.a.i.k. the designation HS 315A is also his invention).
Click to expand...


This contains false and inaccurate statements. Whoever Friedrich Georg actually is, he raises good questions in his books. He does not claim certain things as facts and allows the reader the opportunity to research further. The politics of his publisher are not relevant, only the data. His books also contain footnotes and references, while some claims and statements are not supported.
 
Well, if somebody for example says " ..,. there is a circumstantial case that the Nazis successfully tested an an atom bomb ..",
(as "Friedrich Georg" in his book "SS Brotherhood of the Bell") , he of course doesn't claim that as absolute and undeniable
truth .... But he makes quite clear, I think, that he believes in it. He is a believer in several types of wonder weapons, that by
other researchers and authors are debunked as fake.
The politics of a publisher aren't relevant, of course, but a publisher like the Kopp Verlag, who publishes many books about
themes, that are well liked by people of the political right wing, probably won't support an author with opposing opinions.
And Friedrich Georgs political opinion seems to be quite clear, evidenced, too, by the choice of his co-authors, and the titles
and contents of his books, which I dare to say, aren't appropriate to this forum with regards to the very first point of the forum
rules !
 
edwest said:
athpilot said:
Chris Chris said:
Henschel Hs 130 E with Henschel Hs 315 A
Click to expand...

This is fake and a fantasy project by a german author ("Friedrich Georg", it´s a pseudonym) back in 2009. He has published it in a right-wing publisher. Georg´s method is to gather all details, indications for all the "german miracle weapons", he is searching for (german atomic bomb, hydrogen bomb, nazi manned spaceflight etc.) and when he got a certain number of such "evidences" he claims: "now we have the proof!" Here it happened the same way: someone claimed to have seen some strange "longe-range glider" at the Luftwaffe airfield in Zerbst. They had a strange tail. The F.G. saw a foto in an old publication (from the 1970´s). In the background are some strange german "wonder-weapons" and then he found some clues, that it must have something to do with Henschel. So, now we have it. One can read this "chain of reasoning" in his book "Hitlers Siegeswaffen" (Hitlers Victoryweapons), 2 vols. This drawing is made by him and has no real background (and a.f.a.i.k. the designation HS 315A is also his invention).
Click to expand...


This contains false and inaccurate statements. Whoever Friedrich Georg actually is, he raises good questions in his books. He does not claim certain things as facts and allows the reader the opportunity to research further. The politics of his publisher are not relevant, only the data. His books also contain footnotes and references, while some claims and statements are not supported.
Click to expand...

You´re wrong. No questioning can make this „Hs 315 A“ become a reality. And btw. everybody can raise questions. This author uses the method of questioning mostly as a method of persuasation (or maybe propaganda). This method is called derailing: in case you have not the (historical) sources you need to underline your agenda, then questioning everything (especially the established historical research). In his last three books (I do not want to mentione the booktitles here) he raises question after question. The sentence "Fragen kommen auf" [questiones rises] is a very often used term at the end of many chapters (and not only there). But a thousand questions do not sum up to an answer. In the same book are other darwings of supposed wonderweapons too. He even claimes to know the shape of german a-bombs. This is pure speculation. But unfortunately this drawings are spread wide in the net (and become memes). Unicraft uses it for kits and I think I saw some of them somewhere here in the forum too. His books shows how the boundary between confirmation bias and conspiracy becomes fluid. He claimes the germans had the a-bomb and other things. So the next inevitably question is: why didn´t they used it? He wrote at least three books about that and his answer is: betrayal [Verrat] and conspiracy. Google his name and "Verrat" and you´ll know what I mean. And I would you agree with you that publishers should play no role. But this case is different. There are hundreds of publishers, but he choose the Grabert Verlag (and before that the Kopp Verlag). Grabert is observed by the Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution; or the german national secret service). To choose this publisher is an unambiguous statement. That is all, I will say about it.
 
athpilot said:
And btw. everybody can raise questions.
Click to expand...

And as a result...

images
 
The moment you ask yourself, you also unconsciously answer yourself.
As unconscious works, when conflicting answers (real or false) exist ,it makes you believe the answer that suite you. Often very different from actual facts.
That's how this questioning method works.

Anyways… O/T
 
Jemiba said:
Well, if somebody for example says " ..,. there is a circumstantial case that the Nazis successfully tested an an atom bomb ..",
(as "Friedrich Georg" in his book "SS Brotherhood of the Bell") , he of course doesn't claim that as absolute and undeniable
truth .... But he makes quite clear, I think, that he believes in it. He is a believer in several types of wonder weapons, that by
other researchers and authors are debunked as fake.
The politics of a publisher aren't relevant, of course, but a publisher like the Kopp Verlag, who publishes many books about
themes, that are well liked by people of the political right wing, probably won't support an author with opposing opinions.
And Friedrich Georgs political opinion seems to be quite clear, evidenced, too, by the choice of his co-authors, and the titles
and contents of his books, which I dare to say, aren't appropriate to this forum with regards to the very first point of the forum
rules !
Click to expand...


SS Brotherhood of the Bell is by Joseph Farrell.
 
Sine this thread is more about "German composite aircraft projects of WWII" than just the Mistel one, might it be better renamed accordingly?
 
Jet Mistel List

March 13, 1945
CURRENT STATE OF DEVELOPMENT
(TL-MISTELVERBÄNDE - 13. März 1945)


MISTEL 4*8-262 / 8-88 mit 4 TL*Me-262 + Ju-88 with four jet engines
Performance with SHL 3500 warhead:
- over 500 km (Eindringtiefe) at (unreadable) km/h at an altitude of 2 km
- over 850 km (Eindringtiefe) at (unreadable) km/h at an altitude of 8 km
Schedule: Construction nearly complete


MISTEL 5**8-162 / spezieller Verbrauchsträger Junkers (Holz) mit 2 TL**He-162 + Ju 268 with two jet engines
Performance with 2,000 kg bombload:
- over 1,500 km (Eindringtiefe)
Performance with 4,000 kg bombload:
- over 800 km (Eindringtiefe)
Schedule: Construction complete by end of March.
Prototype: June 1945


MISTEL 6***8-234 C / spezieller Verbrauchsträger Junkers (Holz) ohne TL***Ar-234 C + Ju 268 without jet engines
Performance with 2,000 kg bombload:
- over 1,000 km (Eindringtiefe)
Schedule: Prototype June '45


To bridge the time until the arrival of Mistel 5 and 6
Neuer Mistel Vorschlag****8-162/8-234 mit 2x 003 oder 2x 004 (vereinfacht)****He-162 + Arado 234 with two jet engines
(simplified)
Performance with 1,500 kg bombload:
- over 1,000 km (Eindringtiefe)
Schedule: possible in 6–8 weeks


Source: Bundesarchiv
Signatur: RL 3/2583; Page: 44
Direct Link:
https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/760e51f9-0854-4241-93e5-8831c9163bc9/
 
Last edited:
Arado 234 C - Mistel

March 5 – March 15, 1945
The FL-E-Chief proposes the discontinuation of the Arado 234 C with four BMW 003s. Use of the Arado 234 C fuselages as Mistel flying bombs with two Jumo 004s, since production is significantly reduced due to a shortage of BMW engines, but fuselages can be built. Jumo 004 engines are available due to the low production of the Me 262.

Source:
Bundesarchiv
CHEF TLR 5.3 - 15.3.1945
 
Last edited:
Mistel 4
Would be interesting to know what the "Mistel 4" - "Ju 88 - mit 4 TL" flying bomb might have looked like.
Engine layout ? Mixed propulsion ? Pure jet propulsion ? Undercarriage ? New Wings ?

1.Variant
(speculative)		Ju 88 with piston engines and four additional jet engines.

Additional jettisonable wheels for take-off

SHL 3500 warhead

2.Variant
(speculative)		Ju 88 fuselage and wings

Without piston engines

Only four jet engines

Take-off trolley

SHL 3500 warhead


Mistel 4 - 8-262 / 8-88
- Ju 88 / Me 262 combination
- Ju 88 with additional jet engines
- high fuel consumption
- short range
Source:
Last Days of the Luftwaffe:
German Luftwaffe Combat Units,
1944 -1945 by Manfred Griehl
 
Last edited:
What was this patent ?, it's not clear drawing !.
 

Attachments

  • 10.jpg
    10.jpg
    7.4 KB · Views: 85
Jemiba said:
As always, mentioning the source could be helpful.
Click to expand...
That's right my dear Jemiba,but I found it suddenly in a google imagines at Facebook,and when I entered the link,I got nothing,so weird as I think
 

Attachments

  • 10.png
    10.png
    135.6 KB · Views: 61
Chemical warhead - Mistel

January 28, 1945
Chef TLR - Development Department for Air-Dropped Weapons and Ammunition

The only way to deliver bombs weighing over 1000 kg to their target is by Deichselschlepp or Mistel. In addition to the SHL 3500 P against battleships, the SHL 3500 was developed against industrial targets. New Mistel projects include shaped charges of around 4 tons with armor-piercing and gas-pressure effects, as well as mV effects with SC 2000 and 4000, as well as the use of chemical agents up to 4000 cbm. Mine deployment will also be adapted to the Deichselschlepp or Mistel method.

Source:
Bundesarchiv
Signatur: RL 3/2569; Page:117


STATUS REPORT SPECIALIST DEPARTMENT E 7 – December 21, 1944
- He 177 Mistel
- Jet Mistel 2 TL with SC 2000 warhead
Source: Bundesarchiv
Signatur: RL 3/2573; Page: 86


MISTEL Do 217 - Me-163B
DFS AINRING REPORT - July 30, 1943
(increasing Me-163's range)
Source: Bundesarchiv
Signatur: RL 3/1425; Page: 190
 
Last edited:
Remote-controlled "Mistel"

TV-guided Mistel - "Tonne":
Chef TLR - 20.12.1944 - 26.12.1944
Despite urgent request Me 262* not yet completed, therefore installation of Tonne for Mistel significantly delayed.
*Me 262 A-2a/U2?

Wire-guided Mistel
Chef TLR 26.02 - 04.03.1945
2.) Wire control for the Beethoven-Mistel-combination
The wire control for the Beethoven combination has been completed at DFS. Testing in a combination flight without separation has shown flawless command transmission. Testing with separation and target approach will take place immediately.

Source:
Bundesarchiv
Signatur: RL 3/2567
 
Last edited:
Planned KG 200 Mistel Missions

[1] April 1944
Operational Possibilities "Mistel"
Targets: Gibraltar, Leningrad, Scapa Flow

[2] Special order to Kampfgeschwader 200 to prepare Mistel mission to defend against enemy landings on the Baltic coast.

[3] January 1945
- Proposal for attack operations against locks in Antwerp
[3] February 1945
- Demolition of the Oder

[4] March 1945
Operation Eisenhammer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eisenhammer

Source:
Bundesarchiv
[1] Signatur: RL 2-II/5
[2] Signatur: RL 2-II/7
[3] Signatur: RL 2-II/9
[4] Signatur: RL 2-I/81
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom