Competition of the LOH - YHO-4, YHO-5 and YHO-6

[nugo]

In October 1960, the Army submitted a request for proposals (RFP) for the Light Observation Helicopter (LOH). By January 1961, 12 manufacturers had responded with 19 designs;

1) Boeing/Vertol Model V-13? or V-14? ...(or Boeing Model B-8??)
2) Bell Model D-250---YHO-4 and ...
3) Cessna Model CH-4
4) Gyrodyne Model ? ...
5) Hiller Model H-1100---YHO-5 and ...
6) Hughes Model H-369---YHO-6 and ...
7) Kaiser Model ? ...
8) Kaman Model ? ...
9) Lockheed Model CL-5?? or CL-6?? or GL-? ...
10) McDonnell Model M-158
11) Republic Model ? ...
12) Sikorsky Model ? ...

Who will be able to add information please add.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Hi Nugo -

This might be the McDonnell M-158 entry - not sure yet but it seems to fit:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6869.0.html

HTH! Mark

 

[nugo]

Hi Skybolt!

What are the projects offered by Lockheed?
If you know if you can please show.

 

[nugo]

Hi All!

The Boeing/Vertol Model V-1?? proposal of the LOH competition:
American Patents: D193,075

 

[nugo]

Hi All!

Lockheed Model CL-532---LOH proposal (my opinion)
What can we say about this?

Some source of LOH competition:
AW&ST,1961,V.74, Nunber 22, 29 May, p.27
(my dear Jemiba, you can show PDF(or ?) of this page)

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

Brantly offered their design for the competition but in the end, the Army deemed it too small and returned the 5 helicopters to the manufacturer.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[frank]

Were the original designations supposed to be HO instead of OH?

 

[hesham]

Hi Nugo -

This might be the McDonnell M-158 entry - not sure yet but it seems to fit:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6869.0.html

HTH! Mark

You meant;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2948.0/highlight,mcdonnell+158.html

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

A little more digging around and it appears that the YOH-3 and the YOH-2 were the initial submittals to replace the OH-13 and OH-23. When the Army deemed them too small and insufficient for the job, the LOH competition was initiated. Here's a photo of the other entry in the initial competition, later to be used as a trainer called the TH-55 Osage.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Stargazer]

Greetings All -

A little more digging around and it appears that the YOH-3 and the YOH-2 were the initial submittals to replace the OH-13 and OH-23.

Exactly. Associating the OH-3 to the LOH program didn't sound quite right to me, but I wanted to search the matter further before writing anything stupid... ;D
The only accepted LOH contenders were the YHO-4, YHO-5 and YHO-6, which became the YOH-4, YOH-5 and YOH-6 in the new tri-service system.

 

[Stargazer]

Cessna's LOH contender was the CH-4.

The CH-4 LOH proposal was submitted in full to the Army in January, 1961 to kick off the year. An award announcement was expected by May, 1961. Companies submitting proposals were Bell, Hiller, Boeing, Cessna, Gyrodyne, Kaiser, Kaman, McDonnell, Republic, Hughes, Lockheed and Sikorsky; a dozen contenders for two spots. The CH-4 mock-up is pictured below; the turbine engine compartment is located behind the rear seats.

NOTE: The above is a fake inflight view, as this was only a mockup.​

 

[Stargazer]

All LOH contenders (20 proposals by 12 companies):

• Bell D-250
• Bell D-251 (T-72)
• Boeing-Vertol 131
• Cessna CH-4
• Gyrodyne 66
• Kaiser KD-161
• Hiller 1099 (T-72)
• Hiller 1099 (T-74)
• Hiller 1100
• Hiller 1101 (T-72)
• Hiller 1101 (T-74)
• Hughes 369
• Kaman K-130
• Kaman 130A
• Lockheed CL-418
• McDonnell 158A
• Republic RH-60 (T-72)
• Republic RH-60 (T-74)
• Sikorsky (Primary)
• Sikorsky (Alternate)

NOTE: Bold type indicates the four proposals retained after the first selection.
Source:

• UNITED STATES ARMY OPERATIONAL EVALUATION GROUP - LIGHT OBSERVATION HELICOPTER.
  REPORT OF EVALUATION - PROJECT NR AVN 2361

 

[hesham]

The LOH from ebay of 1963.

 

[Pioneer]

G'day gents

Just recently I watched a documentary titled Project Cancelled - The Cheyenne (aka the Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne). In it it states that Lockheed submitted the Lockheed XH-51 helicopter design to the U.S Army's LOH competition! But it was turned down by the U.S Army due to its advanced technological nature (aka ridged rotor system and speed!)

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Stargazer]

A profile view of the Brantly B-2 as evaluated by the U.S. Army (from RAF Flying Review in 1960):

 

[Stargazer]

The Fairchild Hiller YOH-5A's and Hughes YOH-6A's first flights from Flying:

 

[mil]

many photos Brantly YHO-3 LOH at http://sobchak.wordpress.com/tag/helicopters/

 

[VictorXL188]

Here's an artists impression of the unsuccessful Kaiser KD-161, which also was listed as having some influence from Doman (probably his rotor technology used in the D-10).

 

[500 Fan]

Is it possible that the two Republic proposals listed above might have been based on the Alouette II? Republic were marketing the Alouette II at the time, as far as I can tell.

500 Fan.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Could be something to that idea.

 

[yasotay]

Is it possible that the two Republic proposals listed above might have been based on the Alouette II? Republic were marketing the Alouette II at the time, as far as I can tell.

500 Fan.

That makes a lot of sense. It was one of the few light turbine of the period. Of course because it was European it did not get to th second round. I do not know if it met the requirements, which of course may have had something to it.

 

[P-STICKNEY]

Were the original designations supposed to be HO instead of OH?

Yes. The U.S. Army had prescribed its own designation system just prior to the 1962 MacNamara Great Redesignation. It was basically similar to the 1962 designation system, but had the Type (H for Helicopter, A for Airplane) first, and the Mission Designator (U foe Utility, O foe Obsevation, C for Cargo, etc) second. Thus, for example, the Bell H-40 became the HU-1A, (And thus Huey), and tha Caribou started out as the AC-1.

 

[hesham]

The Bell OH-4 mock-up.

 

[hesham]

• Republic RH-60 (T-72)
• Republic RH-60 (T-74)

By the way,

these designations clearly were not from Republic AP series,because
the AP-60 was appeared in 1948,and this concept in 1960,so probably
the company had a series RH for helicopters only.

 

[hesham]

• Bell D-250
• Bell D-251 (T-72)
• Boeing-Vertol 131
• Cessna CH-4
• Gyrodyne 66
• Kaiser KD-161
• Hiller 1099 (T-72)
• Hiller 1099 (T-74)
• Hiller 1100
• Hiller 1101 (T-72)
• Hiller 1101 (T-74)
• Hughes 369
• Kaman K-130
• Kaman 130A
• Lockheed CL-418
• McDonnell 158A
• Republic RH-60 (T-72)
• Republic RH-60 (T-74)
• Sikorsky (Primary)
• Sikorsky (Alternate)

From Air Pictorial 1961,

so weird,the Kaman proposal was joined by Grumman company ?!.

 

[hesham]

Lockheed CL-418

The Lockheed CL-418,from Air Pictorial 1961.

 

[hesham]

Lockheed CL-418

The Lockheed CL-418,from Air Pictorial 1961.

It looks like CL-550,or the last was developed from CL-418.

 

[hesham]

Lockheed CL-418

The Lockheed CL-418,from Air Pictorial 1961.

It looks like CL-550,or the last was developed from CL-418.

As I expected,the Army and Navy were interested in a further improvement and
developement in the concept. ?.

From Air Pictorial 1961.

 

[hesham]

The LOH from ebay of 1963.

From Army Aviation 1963/3,a larger view.

 

[riggerrob]

The Bell OH-4 mock-up.

That Bell prototype lost the first LOH competition, but was reworked to become the widely popular Jet Ranger, which was in turn reworked to sell well as the Kiowa LOH.

 

[yasotay]

That Bell prototype lost the first LOH competition, but was reworked to become the widely popular Jet Ranger, which was in turn reworked to sell well as the Kiowa LOH.

Which became the U.S. Army Scout Helicopter for decades, never to be replaced (it seems).

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Sikorsky Art: The “Might-Have-Beens” – Igor I Sikorsky Historical Archives

sikorskyarchives.com

 

[Kiltonge]

Found some figures for LOH bids, cost per airframe*.

Original competition
Hughes $19,860 **
Hiller $29,415 ***

Re-opened competition
Hughes $59,700
Bell $53,450
Hiller: did not bid, condemning the company to oblivion


* Airframe costs exclude GFE such as the T63 engine and avionics, which added about $30,000 to the unit prices for the second-tranche procurement.

** The Army staff at first thought Hughes' bid was a typo, but confirmed the price with the company. The Army then estimated that Hughes were taking a $10 million loss on the project.

*** Even this was rumoured to be below cost. Both Hiller and Hughes had realised that the Army was going to award based on lowest cost, but Hiller hadn't expected Hughes to be quite so crazy

 

[yasotay]

It is doubtful that Hiller could compete with Bell (with ties to the sitting government) and Hughes (with 'the' Hughes). As history bore out Hughes was that crazy (in more ways than one). There plan was to underbid the initial lot and then recoup with the inevitable second tranche. When the cost for the second tranche was much higher Bell stepped in with the OH-58.

 

[RAP]

August 1964 US Army Aviation Digest article on the LOH progarm.

 

[RAP]

Rest of the article.

 

[hesham]

I spoke before about this great site,

https://www.nevadamusic.com/?page_id=1901

 

[hesham]

Hi,

https://www.nevadamusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/1962-American-Helicopter-Soc.-Newsletter.pdf

 

[Kiltonge]

Found some figures for LOH bids, cost per airframe*.

Original competition
Hughes $19,860 **
Hiller $29,415 ***

For context, the basic model Chevy Corvette in 1965 cost $4,223.

So the Hughes bid was 'equivalent' to 4.7 Corvettes, which in 2026 would equate to $340,000. Double that to account for GFE and it's halfway between the the price of an R44 and R66 in 2026.