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Author Topic: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative  (Read 16594 times)

Offline Triton

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Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« on: February 16, 2010, 01:54:27 pm »
Artist's impression of Boeing capsule concept for NASA's $50 million Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative. The seven-person craft is larger than an Apollo capsule. It can be launched by different rockets and has a cargo variant. Boeing has teamed with Bigelow Aerospace to develop the capsule.

Source: Coppinger, Rob. "PICTURE: Boeing Reveals Commercial Crew Capsule" Flight International February 9, 2010

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/02/09/338035/picture-boeing-reveals-commercial-crew-capsule.html
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 01:58:26 pm by Triton »

Offline Kosmos929

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 02:35:10 pm »
How many times do we have to go in circles to re-invent Apollo?  This is worse than the TKS saga.

Offline airrocket

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 03:24:50 pm »
Wow 40 years later we're still flying capsules that splash down...amazing technology leap and from Boeing? I think Boeing needs to page through some of SP pages and find what they have forgotten.
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Offline archipeppe

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 03:37:08 pm »
How many times do we have to go in circles to re-invent Apollo?  This is worse than the TKS saga.

Agree, even worste this is a try to revive Orion infact is called "Orion-lite"......

Offline Byeman

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 07:04:53 pm »

Agree, even worste this is a try to revive Orion infact is called "Orion-lite"......

LM would be managing an Orion Lite

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 07:08:37 pm »
Wow 40 years later we're still flying capsules that splash down...

Most cost efficient way to send humans to space.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2010, 09:38:35 pm »
How many times do we have to go in circles to re-invent Apollo?  This is worse than the TKS saga.

littel Apollo constructor history
North American Aviation => North American Rockwell => Rockwell International => Boeing

Apollo or Gemini like capsules are Most cost efficient way (R&D) to send humans to space.

the rest like lifting body's are expensive in R&D
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Offline CFE

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2010, 10:14:41 pm »
Boeing used their Orion proposal as a starting point for their COTS bid, and "Orion-Lite" appears to be similar.  I'd love to know the capsule mass and diameter, but I'm guessing it's 4.2-4.5 meters in diameter and 20 tonnes in mass (if Boeing's Crew Exploration & Refinement studies from 2004 are any clue.)

Stick with the Apollo diameter of 3.9 meters and you can probably keep the mass and volume low enough to stick it on a fairly cheap Atlas V 401.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2010, 11:27:17 pm »
The basic Apollo CM had a mass of 6000 kg, but that was 40 years ago and for lunar missions.
An uprated, LEO-only CM should be around 3500-4000 kg. Don't know how much the service module would weight, maybe 2500 kg  ? That results in 6500 kg, lighter than Soyuz.
Btw, there's still room to improve the good old Apollo shape. I've found this document recently
http://www.mae.usu.edu/aerospace/publications/Reno_rev_whitmore.pdf

More lift for Apollo during reentry. Why bother with biconics, lifting bodies or wings ?
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 07:01:02 am »
The basic Apollo CM had a mass of 6000 kg, but that was 40 years ago and for lunar missions.
An uprated, LEO-only CM should be around 3500-4000 kg. Don't know how much the service module would weight, maybe 2500 kg  ? That results in 6500 kg, lighter than Soyuz.
Btw, there's still room to improve the good old Apollo shape. I've found this document recently
http://www.mae.usu.edu/aerospace/publications/Reno_rev_whitmore.pdf

More lift for Apollo during reentry. Why bother with biconics, lifting bodies or wings ?

your right,  Archibald
the only thing wat distress me, how they gona squeezing 6 Astronauts in a Apollo CM

see here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4268.0.html

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Offline Byeman

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 08:14:07 am »
Wow 40 years later we're still flying capsules that splash down...

Most cost efficient way to send humans to space.

for flight rates less than 40 to 60 flights per year

Offline Triton

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 10:57:43 am »
Artist's impressions of the Boeing and Bigelow Aerospace capsule concept for the Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 10:59:27 am by Triton »

Offline mz

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 11:53:56 am »
About time!

They could have announced things like these in 2004 and they could be flying now when the shuttle is retired this year.... Instead they just had to have Griffin, ESAS and the Ares / Orion / "Apollo on steroids" debacle.


There's also the SpaceX Dragon. Cargo first, probably crew later.

Orbital's Cygnus has no crew aspirations IIRC. Their vehicle has a solid second stage anyway.

Offline carmelo

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 01:35:06 pm »
Wow 40 years later we're still flying capsules that splash down...
No,for Orion lite the reentry is with air capture
Quote
One of the biggest deviations from NASA's Orion design involves the vehicle's landing system. Whereas NASA plans call for Orion to make an Apollo-style splashdown in the ocean, Bigelow is considering midair retrieval as a safer and more economical means to land the spacecraft following atmospheric re-entry.

"Air-capture is a strategy that has been implemented many times in the past, but never done at weights as high as a capsule," Gold said.

Midair capture was used by the military during World War II to recover gliders and during the 1960s to catch film canisters dropped from Corona spy satellites orbiting overhead.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090814-orion-lite.html


Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2010, 05:17:21 pm »
Wow 40 years later we're still flying capsules that splash down...

Most cost efficient way to send humans to space.

for flight rates less than 40 to 60 flights per year

Which is an order of magnitude greater than current flight rates.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing