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Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative

Flyaway

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Michel Van

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The Angry Astronaut is right

Since Starliner unmanned Test flight on 20 dec 2019
Has past over 14 Months and almost nothing happen at Boeing,
After some excuse like "Covid" or "Winter in Texas" and now "ISS is occupied by SpaceX we can't Launch"
Follow by Boeing demands for more Money to deal with 83 issue of Starliner

At this speed Boeing will overtake by SNC Dream Chaser unmanned Test-flight in 2022
and in this game the winner get contract...
 

TomS

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At this speed Boeing will overtake by SNC Dream Chaser unmanned Test-flight in 2022
and in this game the winner get contract...

SNC isn't competing for a Commercial Crew contract (they lost that one already in 2014). The current Dream Chaser effort is for Commercial Resupply-2, but it isn't going to be human-rated. It's going to launch inside a shroud, which means it CAN'T be man rated in the current configuration.
 

Michel Van

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It's going to launch inside a shroud, which means it CAN'T be man rated in the current configuration.
So it's mean they can build Manned version if NASA take them after Successful unmanned flights and Starliner still not ready...
 

TomS

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It's going to launch inside a shroud, which means it CAN'T be man rated in the current configuration.
So it's mean they can build Manned version if NASA take them after Successful unmanned flights and Starliner still not ready...

Sorry, not sure I'm following.

Right now, the plan is for Dream Chaser to fly inside a 5-meter payload fairing on Vulcan (and maybe Ariane V at some point on the future). But that doesn't really set them up for a manned version. You can't launch a crewed vehicle inside a fairing because there are no viable escape options. So crewed Dream Chaser is a largely separate development.

SNC say they are committed to a crewed version but I don't see a customer right now. NASA has competed Commercial Crew already. Even of Starliner never works, they have the Dragon 2 crew version and that's all they really need to ensure a non-Russian route to ISS.

I don't see NASA finding money for another commercial crew vehicle while also trying to fund Artemis to the Moon, especially as ISS approaches it's likely end of life within the next decade or so.
 

Michel Van

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Sorry, not sure I'm following.
Original Dream Chaser had to be manned and plans for that are complete
Now they build unmanned version for Commercial Resupply-2 to launch in 2022
If Boeing mess up Starliner program by delay or another Failure during unmanned flight 2
While Dream Chaser Cargo make successful test flight

I think not that NASA stand there and pump more money in Starliner
they transfer the budget to SNC with demand build Manned rated version

payload fairing are not the problem
ESA study there manned Capsule to launch in side of Ariane 5 fairing
in case of launch failure the fairing are jettisoned and capsule pull away from Booster with launch escape system
same could goes for Dream Chaser by solid rocket engine, in fact that Orginal plan by SNC
 

TomcatViP

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I am not sure if a fairing ejection under high dynamic pressure and unforeseen load and attitude as should be expected during an emergency can be deemed safe or efficient.
Think at the external dyn pressure load on the huge fairing surface, the amount of separation means needed and all the weight and electrical glitches that would go with it. :rolleyes:
 

TomS

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I think not that NASA stand there and pump more money in Starliner
they transfer the budget to SNC with demand build Manned rated versio

In theory, yes, there is an unfunded extension of Commercial Crew that NASA could fund to restart Dream Chaser. But they're not going to do that. If Starliner is dropped, they won't have "free" money they can just reallocate to SNC. Instead, they'd have to go get new money from Congress, which seems pretty unlikely.



payload fairing are not the problem
ESA study there manned Capsule to launch in side of Ariane 5 fairing
in case of launch failure the fairing are jettisoned and capsule pull away from Booster with launch escape system
same could goes for Dream Chaser by solid rocket engine, in fact that Orginal plan by SNC

SNC never proposed to fly a manned Dream Chaser inside a fairing, because NASA rules do not permit a crewed vehicle to launch inside an enclosed fairing. The crewed version of Dream Chaser was to fly exposed on top of an Atlas V.

Looking at the latest ESA crewed capsule (CSTS), the launch escape system is attached to a capsule cover, which would be pulled off with the capsule in the event of an abort. The two parts would only separate after the crew is clear of the launch vehicle. No problem; this is how Apollo worked, for example. But I can't find any example of putting a crewed capsule inside a separate, non-connected, fairing.
 

Archibald

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And I really like the way the Soviets made it on the Soyuz. So the crew seats in the middle module ? No problem ! Let the service module attached to the failing rocket; and have the escape system pulls the entire fairing with the two upward modules still attached inside; once the whole thing a safe distance away from the ground, let the crew module falls backwards, from the bottom of the fairing... since there is no service module nor exploding rocket below it ! then sprout the parachutes, fire the landing rockets, and voilà, crew saved.
 

Grey Havoc

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Grey Havoc

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