Register here

Author Topic: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects  (Read 25421 times)

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« on: September 26, 2006, 03:21:13 am »
One of the French post-war projects for a large flying boat was the SE.1200. Just
the scaled down manned model, designated SE.1210 flew. Of the SE.1200 at least one
turbo-prop powered derivative was planned. Still yet, I’ve just got one drawing, but I know, that in number X of the Aviation Francais Magazine an article was published. Unfortunately when I subscribed, this issue was already sold out. Anyone, who could provide me with a
scan ?     
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 07:33:08 am by Stargazer2006 »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2076
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 04:45:55 am »
I live near the town of Biscarosse, which has a Flying boat museum (I visited it two times, first time in 1993 and last time in august of this year). The museum is based here because of the former Latecoere plant...
I still have the book of the visit, and they briefly mention the SE-1200. It has to weight around 300 tons or so!
 These projects were the ultimate derivatives of the SE-200 (ex Liore&Olivier H-49) of which 3 examples were build and flew until 1950.
 Le fana de l'aviation also mention the SE-1200 in its article on the SE-200 (1998). I have to check this magazine, there's some datas about the SE-1200 if i remember well.
cheers
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2076
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 05:08:08 am »
Here we are

There's some projects between the SE-200 and SE-1200

SE-104
Long-range transatlantic flying boat (9 tons of cargo+ 70 passengers)
empty weight 43 tons
MTOW 107 tons
6*2600hp engines

SE-200C (AkA SE-1100 )
SE-014 derivative with a MTOW of 120 tons. Engines were HS 24Z or Gnome&Rhone 28T (those were coupled  HS 12Z and Gnome Rhone 14R ultimate french-piston engines of the 1940-1950 era)

SE-1200
Improvement of the SE-1100 with, once again, more MTOW...(not sure of the 300 tons number it seems a bit exagerated!!)



Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 07:07:00 am »
Any idea if these projects started during war-time in aticipation of post-war traffic surge?

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 12:02:42 pm »
Chillon, Dubois and Wegg say in "French Postwar Transport Aircraft", that the
SE.1200 project started "in he late forties". The data they give for the Se.1200:
span 61m, lenght 47,9m, MTOW 140.000 kg with 22.000 payload, powered by 8
3000hp Arsena l24H, turboprops were considered. The SE.1300 is said to have
been another flying boat project, a direct relation to the 1200 isn't mentioned,
the only detail given is the MTOW of 180.000 kg. And no drawings .....  :(
Lots of projects to explore !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2076
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 02:22:24 pm »
Wait I minute, maybe I know what kind of turboprops were considered. From "Le fana de l'aviation" but also a Pdf on SNECMA I downloaded some weeks ago (I was searching info on the Atar-103, Atar-104 Vulcain and the like)
I think about the TA-1000 which had to develop 4000 ch.(seems logical compared to the Arsenal 24H and its 3000 hp)
 According to the Pdf, SNECMA started the development in 1948 but  renounced due to the high complexity of the engine.

Other candidate could be the TG1A bis from SOCEMA. It developed 2500 hp...
I can send you the Pdf if you are interested (it's in french!)
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2076
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 02:25:32 pm »
and yes, Skybolt according to Le Fana these projects date back from 1941-1944 era.
The SE-200, Late-631 and Cams-Potez 141  flew in late 1942. They were later seized by the Germans and ferried to the Constance lake, in the extreme south of Germany. There, they were destroyed by a - still mysterious-  RAF attack at the beginning of april 1944...
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 02:33:29 pm »
Well, more topics for my projected site on wartime civilian projects... Thanks! Uh, and I understand French fairly well  ;D D'you have my e-mail?
Last question, pardon me: any idea if SNCASO joined the scene with some very-heavy transport projects post war, after their experiance working with Zeppelin?

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 09:02:57 pm »
".. Constance lake, in the extreme south of Germany. There, they were destroyed "
The CAMS 141 was sunk by USAF Mustangs during an attack on a seaplane base in
the Baltic, I think. There was an article in a magazine some years ago, mentioning, that
it was mistaken for long with the Bv 238, which was actually sunk in Lake Schaal in
northern Germany.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2076
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 03:25:35 am »
QUOTE- Last question, pardon me: any idea if SNCASO joined the scene with some very-heavy transport projects post war, after their experiance working with Zeppelin?QUOTE

The answer to your question has a name, the Armagnac. It was a plane quite similar to the DC-6, powered by R-4360 engines. The plane was a derivate of a transatlantic  project of WWII.
Air France refused it because it was not very comfortable (the number of windows was too scarce, the flour had different levels). As a consequence, the few aircafts produced were used by privates companies, flight test centers and the like until the 60's.
Some of these plane were used as engine testbed (including the
TF-306E of the Mirage IIIV, F2 and G).
Good link here (as you can read french :) )

http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=609&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=0&ANNEE=0&ID_MISSION=0&MOTCLEF=armagnac

According to Le Fana, there's a real mystery around the destruction of the SE-200 and Late -631 in april 1944 on the constance lake.

Et voila! I made a mistake!
There was two CAMS-potez, the 141 and 161. The 141 was amaritime patroller, the 161 was the competitor to the LAte 631 and SE-200. So the 161 was destroyed with them in the Constance lake...
Aviafrance again...
http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=8074&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=1058&ANNEE=0&ID_MISSION=0&MOTCLEF=
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 06:40:42 am »
Quote
The answer to your question has a name, the Armagnac.

Uh, yes, I know the Armagnac!  :D Beutiful plane, with a distinctive  personality.. Same class of the Breda BZ.308.
What I had in mind was some really BIG plane (or seaplane). SE-1200 class.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2006, 12:28:38 pm »
The heavy transport seemes to be a type of aircraft, France wasn'tmuch interested in
after the war. The only type coming to my mind is the SNCAC NC.211 Cormoran and it's
pre-project, the still larger NC.210. And, of course, the Breguet projects, but these
were mainly designs from the early '40s.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2076
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2006, 01:32:19 pm »
You're perfectly right, Jemiba! It's the same thing for the bombers (no 100 tons V-bombers equivalent on this side of the channel :( )
The heavier bomber project was the Mirage IVB (around 60 tons) and it was quickly cancelled...
To my mind, France never had the money nor the engines to make big aircrafts. The Late-631 stay the bigger 100% French aircraft...
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 08:20:20 am »
Quote
The heavy transport seemes to be a type of aircraft, France wasn'tmuch interested in
after the war. The only type coming to my mind is the SNCAC NC.211 Cormoran and it's
pre-project, the still larger NC.210. And, of course, the Breguet projects, but these
were mainly designs from the early '40s.

Marvellous, and where I can find 3-views etc on these giants ? I'm waiting for Les Paquebots Volants by Lariviere, already ordered, but other sources (books, etc.)?

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2006, 08:39:47 am »
Sorry, I just can give you the Cormoran, perhaps, if you'll eventually get
those Paquebots, you think of me  ?   ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2006, 09:30:55 am »
Sure !  ;D

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2006, 12:01:24 pm »
Hallo,

anther aircraft based on SE.1200 was SE.1260 flying boat.

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2006, 05:53:06 am »
 :( :'( Archibald, did you forget me=  ???  ;D
BTW, I'll have Aviation Francaise numero trois in a couple of days, I'll scan the article...

Online pometablava

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 3313
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2006, 08:27:20 am »
Skybolt,

will you sent your comments about Les Paquebots Volants?, This month's Le Fana comes with an advert and it looks a superb work but I would know if some unbuilt projects are included before ordering.

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2006, 07:27:42 am »
Sure, as soon as I receive it !  ;) Editions Lariviere advertised it with an October issue date, but knowning Lariviere... (not as bad as .... you know)

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2006, 07:59:09 am »
Saw "Les Paquebots"... my friend Giorgio Apostolo received it ahead of commercialisation for review. Very beautiful. No unbuilt projects, as far as I saw, but great documentation of Potez, Latè, etc. and minor types.

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2006, 08:02:15 am »
Now I own all the AFM collection... :D Expect number 3  >:(


Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2007, 12:22:58 pm »
About british flying boat projects, you should have a look here :
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1220.0.html

And then here's a french project, I'll be looking for information, too,
the SNCASE SE.1200. There was an article about it in Aviation Francais Magazine
N° 3 or 4. My subscrition started to late and htis number was sold out ..  :'(
So I#ve just this drawing :
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 07:20:37 am by Stargazer2006 »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Sandi

  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • Posts: 6
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2007, 01:30:39 pm »
Thanks Jemiba for SNCASE SE.1200.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 06:42:59 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skybolt

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2288
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2007, 06:21:42 am »
Tha AFM issue 3 on the SE.1200 hasn't a REAL 3-view. Photos of the model and a very schematic internal arrangement. I think something more is on display at Biscarosse....

Offline Caravellarella

  • Farfadet/Korrigan
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 979
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2007, 02:36:26 pm »
Dear Skybolt, I don't know if you know already, but for the large "hexamoteurs" French flying boats, I can recommend........

S.N.C.A.S.E SE.200 (formerly the Lioré & Olivier H-49 Amphitrite).

Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 345; August 1998. Pages 10 to 17.
Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 346; September 1998. Pages 40 to 51.
Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 347; October 1998. Pages 36 to 41
Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 348; November 1998. Pages 20 to 31.

A four-part article by Gérard Bousquet; the final part is superbly illustrated with line drawings by Joël Mesnard. Interestingly the design of the tail-fins was modified five times with typical Lioré & Olivier elliptical style. There are also considerable differences between the wartime-completed prototype and the post-war production aircraft in regard to engines, cabin window arrangements and wing-root fairings. The final part of the article also show photographs of a planned retractable skid-type outboard float and a development with an inflatable and retractable "ballonnet" outboard float. This flying boat is on my list of impossibly beautiful French Airliner modelmaking subjects.

Potez-C.A.M.S 161.

Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 232; March 1989. Pages 32 to 37.
Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 233; April 1989. Pages 26 to 32.
Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 234; Mai 1989. Pages 22 to 27.

The smallest of the three "Hexamoteurs", the braced-wing Potez from Sartrouville and its scale flying model, the Potez-C.A.M.S 160 are covered in these three articles by Gérard Bousquet with illustrations by Jean Molveau. Interestingly, this single prototype was obviously converted to a maritime reconaissance/bomber configuration with Potez-C.A.M.S 141 Antares style lateral turretsand then de-converted before it's first flight. Again this flying boat is on my list of models to be made, but is not so well illustrated as the S.N.C.A.S.E SE.200 or the Latécoère 631.

"Fana" also covered the earlier Potez-C.A.M.S 141 Antares Aeronavale flying boat; are you interested in details at all?

All best wishes,

Terry, (Caravellarella).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 07:04:52 am by Caravellarella »
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2007, 04:08:19 am »
Hi,

the SNCASE SE.4030 was high wing amphibian aircraft project,powered
by two Armstrong siddeley Cheetah or P&W engines.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1951/1951%20-%201233.html
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:23:27 am by hesham »

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2007, 08:28:34 am »
Special thanks for that, Hesham !
Seems to be a larger version of the SE.4000 amphibian
(from Les Ailes via richard)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2041
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2008, 12:42:27 pm »
An old topic, I know ...

Jens mentioned the mistaken "Bv-238" identity. That aircraft was originally claimed by USAAF 1Lt Urban Drew as a "BV 222 destroyed on the waters of Schaal See". Only after the war did "Ben" Drew change his claim to the Bv-238 prototype.

The problem was, the Bv-238 V1 was at the Bug seaplane base (on Rügen in the Baltic) at the time of the P-51 attack. The Bv-238 was also fitted with new, reversible-pitch propellers some 3 months after it was claimed destroyed.

According to CAHS Journal (Summer 2008. p.73), the aircraft in question was the Potez-CAMS 161 prototype. The 4-engined Potez-CAMS 141 flew with E4 out of Dakar and was scrapped in 1944.

http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/potez.pdf
"Au début de l'année 1944, ne disposant plus de pièces détachées de rechange, l'appareil est réformé, après 1.800 heures de vol, au grand regret de son équipage, après avoir fait la preuve de ses qualités et de celles de l’appareil, malheureusement resté unique, mais dont la solidité est restée légendaire dans l’aéronautique navale française."

For the record, the Bv-238 was destroyed on 24 April 1945 by repeated stafing by Typhoons of 439 Sqn RCAF led by F/L Vic LeGear. The aircraft sank at its moorings. After the war, the remains were "dismantled" with explosives by RAF teams and hauled away for scrap.

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:23:49 am by hesham »

Offline flying-finn

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2010, 12:55:59 pm »
Dear Caravellarella, as i understand, you have an issue of the Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 348; November 1998. Can you share here drawings of the beautiful SE-200 flying boat?

Offline airman

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1047
    • my blogs
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2010, 02:22:39 pm »
i like flying boats !  :)
Those fying boats of Sud-Est was nice, but was clear that flying boats had lost more importance after WWII.
writers , bloggers , content-curators ,  music composer and passionate of militaria and uchronia

Offline Caravellarella

  • Farfadet/Korrigan
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 979
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2010, 01:38:02 pm »
Dear Flyingfinn, do you want me to scan the drawings and post them here? In their entirety? They are spread over 4 consecutive issues of Fana de l'Aviation; moderators, is this allowed?

Terry (Caravellarella)
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline Caravellarella

  • Farfadet/Korrigan
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 979
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2010, 04:21:36 pm »
Dear Flyingfinn, the SNCASE SE-200 flying-boat is actually a pre-war design; formerly the Lioré & Olivier LéO H-49 Amphtrite. Perhaps I should put the pictures there instead......

Terry (Caravellarella)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 02:12:24 pm by Caravellarella »
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline flying-finn

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2010, 03:31:25 am »
Dear Terry (Caravellarella), i'll be waiting for your pictures in that branch of forum with impatience!
Thank you for your understanding!

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2010, 10:03:12 am »
Here we are




SE-014 derivative with a MTOW of 120 tons. Engines were HS 24Z or Gnome&Rhone 28T (those were coupled  HS 12Z and Gnome Rhone 14R ultimate french-piston engines of the 1940-1950 era)


My dear Archibald,

do you mean by SE-014 as SE-214?,that is because there was no series for SNCASE include
014 number !.

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2041
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2010, 03:25:34 pm »
Going waaay back to the S.E.1200, a sideview that appeared in Flight seems to show the turboprop version. In this version of the flying boat, the four tandem Arsenal 24Hs (boosted by R-R Nenes) were to be replaced with four AS Python turboprops. Flight 26 Feb 1948

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2010, 12:03:20 pm »
A good find, this side view. But I cannot see, why it's turbo prop powered, the nacelles
look as those of the piston engined version to me. And would such an important change 
have not resulted in another designation, eg. SE.1201 ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2041
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2010, 10:52:43 pm »
Yes, the nacelles are rather generic-looking as depicted. I mentioned the Pythons because Flight's commentary suggested that the tandem Arsenal 24Hs had already been eclipsed by this time. Still, tough to tell a notional turboprop installation from well-faired liquid-cooled engines with turbojet boosters in such drawings  :)

Offline Caravellarella

  • Farfadet/Korrigan
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 979
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2011, 03:12:43 pm »
Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French about the SNCASE Sud-Est SE.1200 eight-engined flying boat "project" and announcing flight-tests of the scaled-down test-bed the SE.1210 which isn't a "project".

The 125 seater SNCASE Sud-Est SE.2010 "project" was comparable to the Saunders Roe Princess flying boat and would have been powered by eight Arsenal 24H 3,000hp liquid-cooled engines in tandem pairs driving contra-rotating propellors. It featured a laminar flow wing and provision was made in the design for a change to Armstrong Siddeley Python turboprop engines. Luckily for SNCASE, it remained a "project"......

It should be pointed out that by this time Air France was operating regular transatlantic services with Lockheed L049 Constellations......

The article comes from the 24th July 1948 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 04:57:31 pm by Caravellarella »
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline toura

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1182
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2011, 12:13:57 am »
se 1210

Offline foiling

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 270
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2011, 07:09:01 am »
Thanks for providing some information on this attractive project, Caravellarella.

Offline Caravellarella

  • Farfadet/Korrigan
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 979
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2011, 08:58:10 am »
Thanks for providing some information on this attractive project, Caravellarella.

Thank you Foiling. There is more information in this rather generic and disparate topic......

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,841.0/highlight,sud+est+flying.html

which has an odd mix of references to pre-war types and even has the SNCAC NC.211 Cormoran heavy lift transport landplane thrown in for good measure  ???

Terry (Caravellarella)
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline foiling

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 270
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2011, 11:58:48 am »
Thanks Caravellarella, I recall that page now. But thanks especially for your ever-interesting & informative contributions. You never cease to surprise & delight me.

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2014, 06:02:35 am »
And from AFM magazine,


the SNCASE SE.1200.

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2014, 02:12:06 pm »
OK my dear Jemiba.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10825
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2014, 01:33:13 am »
Quote
French flying boats. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the drawings.
Tony.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2015, 10:20:55 am »
Hi,


anther two projects for SNCASE,the first was derivative of SE.200 as a 200 ton flying
boat,and the second was X.104,later was very similar to SE.4000.



Brochure réalisée pour la conférence de Vitrolles (juin 2013)
Les hydravions à Vitrolles
(de CAMS à la SNCASE)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 10:37:54 am by hesham »

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2015, 04:49:57 am »
Special thanks for that, Hesham !
Seems to be a larger version of the SE.4000 amphibian
(from Les Ailes via richard)


From AFM 07,the SNCASE SE.4000 Amphibian project.

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2016, 05:15:36 am »

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22348
Re: SNCASE (Sud-Est) Postwar flying boat projects
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2019, 07:21:35 am »
Chillon, Dubois and Wegg say in "French Postwar Transport Aircraft", that the
SE.1200 project started "in he late forties". The data they give for the Se.1200:
span 61m, lenght 47,9m, MTOW 140.000 kg with 22.000 payload, powered by 8
3000hp Arsena l24H, turboprops were considered. The SE.1300 is said to have
been another flying boat project, a direct relation to the 1200 isn't mentioned,
the only detail given is the MTOW of 180.000 kg. And no drawings .....  :(
Lots of projects to explore !

Yes my dear Jemiba,

the SNCASE SE.1300 was a transatlantic flying boat Project,developed from SE.200,
and could carry a 167 passenger.