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Author Topic: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX  (Read 148299 times)

Offline devi

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Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« on: August 02, 2006, 02:46:56 am »
     
                      " F-111A"----------------------------------------------------"F-111B"
 1) Boeing Model 818-----------------------------------------------------Model 818N
 2) General Dynamics/Convair-Grumman: GD/C Model ?--------Grumman Model 310------F-111A/B
 3) Lockheed Model CL-?-------------------------------------------------Model CL-?
 4) McDonnell (Together with Douglas) Model  ?-----------------Model ?
 5) North American Model NA-? (or ?)--------------------------------Model NA-/ (or ?)
 6) Republic (Together with Vought) Model AP-?----------------Model AP-?   
     
    Please show figures, 3-view drawings and design specifications of following projects:
      Lockheed TFX
      McDonnell TFX
      North American TFX
      Republic TFX   

Offline Matej

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2006, 02:57:21 am »
Boeing Model 818 and 818N

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Offline Matej

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2006, 02:58:40 am »
More...

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Offline Matej

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2006, 03:42:05 am »
Republic proposal

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Offline Matej

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 04:16:25 am »
McDonnell Douglas, Grumman, General Dynamics. No evidence, that Lockheed and North American submitted proposals.

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Offline Pioneer

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 06:09:02 am »
Great pictures that I have not seen before of the Republic submission for TFX (its always been the Fokker-Republic D-24 design). What are the pictures from? Is there any interesting info with the pics???

Also where are the pics for the General Dynamics models from???
Any more info in this book about the Model 1000 or the GD/Grumman design ?????

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Offline Sundog

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2006, 08:21:24 am »
Also, do you have any info on a design that Scott (Orionblamblam) had at his site of a plane that looks like a single seat small F-111?

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2006, 10:25:13 am »
More Boeing 818.

The Boeing design was the preferred design, for the air force at least, but the naval and air force designs were very different and this didn't suit the "single design" TFX program that McNamara was intent on.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline Matej

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2006, 11:57:11 am »
What are the pictures from? Is there any interesting info with the pics???

Its always problem for me to mention the source, because almost all my archive is in electronic form and in the past I didnt take care, from where is this and this. In fact I dont use my physicaly existing books at all. There is information generally about TFX development, but nothing special about Republic proposal.

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Offline lark

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2006, 12:21:11 pm »
Pictures are the same as in "General Dynamics F-111"
by Jay Miller. Aero Series No 29 - AeroPublishers Inc.1981
The pic of the Republic contender is also in this book
(and in Aerofiles...)

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2006, 02:11:25 pm »
What are the pictures from? Is there any interesting info with the pics???

Its always problem for me to mention the source, because almost all my archive is in electronic form and in the past I didnt take care, from where is this and this.

The Republic designs are from my article in APR.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006, 02:12:32 pm »
The TFX competition is one of those examples of apparently very well known events and actually much misunderstood ones. Just to give you a few  examples: we haven't a single three-view draft of the McDonnell proposals; there is no known illustration of the Navy version of either the Republic (the mock-up is clearly the Air Force one) and the McDonnell proposals; both the GD and the Boeing illustrated proposals are related to the second design iteration, the first saw all the proposals rejected; nothing is known regarding the studies leading up to the TFX, in particular what the companies did for the original concept drafted by the Air Force, i.e. a follow-on of the Thud with a larg(er) internal store, mach 1.2 at sea level and short take off (and no compatibility with carriers). For what I mean of the last, take a look in the Jay Miller's  magnificent B-58 book (second edition) at what GD thought in circa 1959 for a follow-on of the Hustler...
We all hope that Tony Butler will uncover something, but as he is asking this forum for help I think that this will remain a wish. To all American members: is it so difficult to ask for the release of the competion official documents? We have to refer only to disappearing (disappeared) company archives? Did Scott uncover  something re the McDonnell submission when he visited the Boeing archives?
End of the rumblings. Good night  :(

Offline Matej

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2006, 06:39:34 am »
The Republic designs are from my article in APR.

Yups. Because I dont have this APR issue, they had to float somewere on the net.

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Offline devi

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2006, 07:08:27 am »
                                         
                                        Hallo Matej!       
      Show us please APR V2N2:
 Republic TFX and Republic-Fokker D-24 Alliance.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2006, 10:07:52 am »
Matej has posted drawings already. If you want the whole APR issue, I'd contact Orionblamblam aka Scott Lowther, as he wrote and published APR.

Please see Forum Rules No. 2):
Don't post whole articles- aviation writers need to make a living.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 10:37:35 am by overscan »
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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