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Author Topic: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects  (Read 22035 times)

Offline moin1900

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Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« on: February 04, 2008, 10:07:22 am »
Hi everybody

Is there anybody who knows more about this project
Me328 Supersonic

Link removed

What was it? A Fighter, Bomber or Kamikaze? 
Are there any other Secret Me-328 Projects ? 

Many greetings
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:23:00 am by Stargazer2006 »

Wingknut

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 11:01:13 am »
Hi Moin1900,
  Sorry but I strongly suspect that any supersonic Me 328 is a non-starter and that the image you posted is of a purely hypothetical "What if?" model.  For a start, the design depicted seems to retain the two Argus pulse-jets of the (solidly subsonic) standard Me 328.  Anyway, the largely wooden construction of the Me 328 seems a funny place to start from if designing a supersonic aircraft.  So, while I could be wrong about this, I reckon that it's not a figher, a bomber or a kamikaze, but a made-up story.
  Cheers,

'Wingknut'.

Offline moin1900

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2008, 11:17:52 am »
Hi everyone

I have found another Picture of it
Please look here
Link removed
Many greetings
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 08:09:15 am by moin1900 »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2008, 11:36:44 am »
Is a Luft46 paper plane drawing 7-July-1942
Submarine launched suicide antiship german bomber
Published in Wingmasters No 2 by Paul Malmassari
and Flugzeug 3/2001 by Manfred Grielh

Offline pometablava

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2008, 11:46:55 am »
It is not a supersonic Me328 I understand it right?

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2008, 11:54:13 am »
It is not a supersonic Me328 I understand it right?

You're not going to get a supersonic *anything* powered by cheap pulsejets.
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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2008, 11:58:53 am »
It is not a supersonic Me328 I understand it right?

Of course not!
Performances are similar to the standard Me 328 B.
Its peculiar shape comes from the need to transport in a small Regulus style container.

Offline moin1900

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2008, 12:11:35 pm »
Hi everyone

I understand it is not supersonic !
But what about the armament!

Many greetings
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 08:09:31 am by moin1900 »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2008, 12:21:39 pm »
Please see attached some wartime drawings of the more conventional railway launched version
An a hig speculative (SOURCE GRADING 1) sketch by myself of the submarine version

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2008, 12:47:41 pm »
Hi everyone

I understand it is not supersonic !!

But what about the armament!

Many greetings
moin1900

Armament probably was one Nitropenta hollow-charge warhead ,similar to the one shown in the  attached drawing

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2008, 11:46:50 pm »
i look i books to find some Info :

Me 328 start as Me P.1079 in July 1941 by Dipl.-Ing. Felix Kracht
Idea was a Fighter or Bomber in Mistel configuration

Bomber
as Mistel configuration with 1000 kg Bomb (later 1400 kg) and no Engine
the carrier plan makes a Stuka attack and drop glide Bomber.

later the Me 328 design was add 2 x V-1 Argusrohren Engine.
because they cheaper as piston or Jet Engine

Bordjäger (Parasite Fighter)
one Me 328 A (with 2 or 4 Argusrohren) on top of He-177 A-5 or Me 264 Bomber (Mistel configuration)
major problem only fuel for 30 minute flight but the Me 328 can be Refuel by docking on His Bomber!
this  version has extendable wing as variable wing geomtry
2 x MG 151/200 with 200 bullets

Schnellkampf Flugzeug (fast Interceptor)
same as above but the Mistel carrier bring Me 328 A, 150 km range to Target.

even as Aircraft for Submarines !
German U-boat carry in container a Me 328A (like Regulus Sub)

the idea was drop, until beginn 1943 the SS take back up
as "Selbstopferung" SO-Flugzeug (German Kamikaze)
Me 328 B cheap disposable, one way Aircraft with 2400 kg Explosive
no extendable wing.


Source:
Geheimprojekte der DFS (german Language)
Horst Lommel
Motorbuch verlag ISBN 3-613-02072-6
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 11:49:16 pm by Michel Van »
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Wingknut

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2008, 03:51:01 am »
That's very interesting - the sub-launched Me 328 with retractable wings is (as you've no doubt gathered) a new one on me.  Fine images and lots of useful data though.
Maybe I was a bit quick to reject the whole thing out of hand but I was put off by the attribution of supersonic speed to a twin-pulsejet glued-together wooden airframe.  (After all, the whole point about the Me 328 was that it was meant to be cheap and semi-disposable.)
I was also put off when I looked up the model-company responsible for the conversion kit and found that they offer a conversion for a "Heinkel He162Z Volkzwilling".  Maybe I shouldn't stick my neck out too far but surely a "Zwillng" He-162 is fictitious?  (The only references I can find seem to class it as a "What if?" modeller's project.)
All best,

Wingknut

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2008, 04:51:57 am »
I was also put off when I looked up the model-company responsible for the conversion kit and found that they offer a conversion for a "Heinkel He162Z Volkzwilling".  Maybe I shouldn't stick my neck out too far but surely a "Zwillng" He-162 is fictitious?  (The only references I can find seem to class it as a "What if?" modeller's project.)

that like the V-1 Zwilling pure Fiction !
Internet is full of that Stuff  >:(


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Offline moin1900

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2008, 04:59:58 am »
Hi everybody

Thanks for much information and nice Pictures ! Now all is clear!  

Many greetings
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 08:09:43 am by moin1900 »

Offline Zizi6785

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Offline Avimimus

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2008, 04:29:25 pm »
You're not going to get a supersonic *anything* powered by cheap pulsejets.

Whoa. That's not true. The pulsejets could be used for climbing to height and then they, along with the wings, could be jettisoned. It would probably require a larger airframe to get high enough, but supersonic speeds could be obtained in a prolonged dive.

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2008, 06:13:33 pm »
By that reasoning, one can claim manned supersonic flight powered by *balloons.* However, one must use common sense at some point.
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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2008, 07:39:08 am »
Please see attached more 328 stuff , for the swept wing version see "Aerospace Project Review"V2N6
November-December 2000

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2008, 09:36:55 am »
Excellent posts, Justo - as ever.
At the risk of going slightly off-topic, my understanding is that the origins of the Me 328 / Me P.1079 project lay in a study for a heavy bomber (P.1073A) which was to carry three parasite jet fighters (P.1073B).  Below is the only image I can find that shows both the P.1073A carrier and (hard to spot at bottom right) the P.1073B parasite.  (I also attach a three-view of the P.1073B.  Both images are quite easy to find though.)
All best.

Offline Farloccus

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 09:47:37 am »

I'd like to see a line drawing of P.1073A, but without results...


Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2008, 01:38:10 pm »
Excellent posts, Justo - as ever.
At the risk of going slightly off-topic, my understanding is that the origins of the Me 328 / Me P.1079 project lay in a study for a heavy bomber (P.1073A) which was to carry three parasite jet fighters (P.1073B).  Below is the only image I can find that shows both the P.1073A carrier and (hard to spot at bottom right) the P.1073B parasite.  (I also attach a three-view of the P.1073B.  Both images are quite easy to find though.)
All best.

Sorry no more images of P.1073A in my files

Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2010, 02:29:51 am »
The first pictures is the "c" version. Is it from real reference or just reconstructed?

Is the swept wing version fake?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 04:10:35 am by Zizi6785 »

Offline memaerobilia

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2011, 07:10:09 am »
I found this original photo in an abum, on a museum warehouse shelf in U.S.
According to the German museum that purchased the album from me, they believed that the album had been compiled by someone who worked on experimental aircraft for the Luftwaffe during WWII. They assume he brought this abum of  experimental aircraft to U.S. after the war, to show projects he worked on, or was familiar with, for employment purposes. Much of the album was of rockets and missiles and many were marked "Geheim" (secret) and had circa 1943 dates and Luftwaffe stamps on the backs. Anyone have any data on this Me 163 with external rocket engines? (I assume there is another one on the other side?)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 08:51:33 am by memaerobilia »
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Offline richard B

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2011, 07:26:16 am »
Bonjour

It's not a Me 163 ,but an early prototype of the Me 328 with two Argus VSR 7 pulso-jets
Cheers

Richard

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2011, 07:31:09 am »
Nice picture, but it has a wrong marking.
It shows one of the 7 prototypes of the German parasite aircraft/suicide aircraft Messerschmitt Me 328 B, powered by two Argus pulsejets.
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Offline memaerobilia

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2011, 08:49:55 am »
Thank you both for correcting this. It now makes me wonder if the hand-written caption may be for the photo that was above this photo in the album, and not for this one.
Joe G.

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2011, 05:10:56 am »
 Also,the Messerschmitt Me.328.

Offline Nik

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2011, 03:49:15 pm »
Okay, okay, how do we explain the latter design evolving to the USS Enterprise ??

Offline dannydale

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2011, 02:04:09 pm »
Oh look, a Nazi Star Trek fighter! ;D

Offline Alcides

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2011, 12:22:11 am »
Also,the Messerschmitt Me.328.

Is there any more information about that "star trek" version of me 328? Because all the references  I can found are about the V1/V2 version which it's in the drawing the  "A" version

Regards
Luis

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2011, 12:58:11 am »
That me 328 is on early study for cheap and easy to build Bomber suport fighter
made from wood powered by two Argus pulsengine from V1
with extending wing in disk section
carry is this version of me 328 on back of big bomber
it uncouple from and attack enermy fighter and return to Bomber and dock on it back
more here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3563.0.html
One moment, NAZI "Star Trek" FIGHTER ?!

Schulz don't tells me, Zhey...
Jaaaa Herr General, Zhey got ze wrong TV Zhow
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 01:01:19 am by Michel Van »
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Offline Lauge

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2011, 02:20:30 am »
Schulz don't tells me, Zhey...
Jaaaa Herr General, Zhey got ze wrong TV Zhow

"I hear nothink, I see nothink, I know nothink!"
 
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2013, 04:23:41 am »
Topics merged.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Messerschmitt projects
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2014, 07:13:07 am »
Hi,


here is a drawings to Messerschmitt Me.328B,from two reports,called; Messerschmitt Me 328 B Leichtes
Schnelkkampfflugzeug.

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2014, 05:14:51 am »
Hi,


here is the Messerschmitt Me.328 wind tunnel model .

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2014, 08:04:40 pm »
By that reasoning, one can claim manned supersonic flight powered by *balloons.* However, one must use common sense at some point.

Finally found my way back to this thread and burst out laughing.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2014, 09:08:27 pm »
The drawing has the caption "Complete model with base plate, railway embankment and take-off trolley".
So I would assume, it was meant to test launching the Me 328 directly from railway tracks. Haven't heard
of this method before, but it seems logical.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 04:22:56 am »
The drawing has the caption "Complete model with base plate, railway embankment and take-off trolley".
So I would assume, it was meant to test launching the Me 328 directly from railway tracks. Haven't heard
of this method before, but it seems logical.

They must do this, it's logical way, the  two Argus pulsengine need 150 mph (240 km/h) to start operate.
Using or build V1 like Launch-rails make little sense, they were target by RAF and USAAF bombers.
launch from Big aircraft had problem, lack of them and RAF and USAAF air dominance.
using the German Railway network is ingenious, especial if they use rail tunnels as contstution factory or hangars for Me 328

under this aspect a another feature for Me 328, make now perfect sense: it's retractable wings
for move the Me 328 into Railway tunnel with. here you got space of 350 cm on rail, while the Me 328 with retracted wing is 320 cm wide.

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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2014, 06:13:57 am »
Retractable wings, to my opinion, would only have been necessary, if the
aircraft was intended to land back again, to be used at a later date. For
one-way missions saving resources (raw materials and man hour) should have
been predominant, so why retract the wings, instead of simply fold or
plug on them ?
But your drawing carries the inscription "Bordflugzeug", so maybe it was
a kind of fighter or fighter bomber ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 06:55:33 am »
My dears,


I tried to send the PDF file about Me.328,but it is too big,and the site can't upload it.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 02:10:25 pm by hesham »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2014, 01:36:50 pm »
In my opinion ... folding wings suicide bomber (antiship) launched from   He-177/ Ju-390 bomb bay

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2014, 01:47:24 pm »
Railway variant

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2014, 08:20:40 pm »
Thank you Justo, greta !
Can you tell us the intended mission for this variant ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2014, 10:26:28 am »
Antiship medium range coastal defences...i supose

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2014, 11:40:27 am »
The Me 328 start as low-cost "suicide" Fighter and Bomber (1000kg to 2400 kg explosive)  start by Aerotowing
the RLM gave the project to DFS (German Research Institute for Sailplane Flight)
While the RLM and SS quarrel about the  "suicide" role of Me 328, thing in war went bad, lack of steel and recourse.

the wood aircraft with two pulsjets became very attractive especial because  pulsjets were not so recourse devouring as Jumo 004 jet engine.

Next to  "suicide" Fighter and Bomber they study parasite fighter for large bomber (Amerika Bomber ?)
in some literature they say that Me 328 was also consider as pinpoint Defence aircraft for production and military site.

i wonder if Me 328 in end was consider as "last fighter" of Luftwaffe ?

again in role of pinpoint Defence and "last fighter" it would make sense to use railway tunnels as base.
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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2014, 12:30:42 pm »
Telescopic wings would require considerable more effort, than fixed ones. Their
benefit would just be better take-off/landing and slow speed performance. At
least the two latter points  would hardly have been interesting for suicide missions,
I think, so I would lean towards a use as a fighter.

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2014, 02:21:37 am »
in some literature they say that Me 328 was also consider as pinpoint Defence aircraft for production and military site.

i wonder if Me 328 in end was consider as "last fighter" of Luftwaffe ?

again in role of pinpoint Defence and "last fighter" it would make sense to use railway tunnels as base.

That would indeed fit with what we know of the railway variant.
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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2015, 04:37:05 am »
From a Dutch site,


here is the Messerschmitt Me.328 variants,the number 3 is new.

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Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #50 on: March 12, 2015, 09:00:46 am »
And;

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2016, 08:51:38 am »
The Me.328B.


Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2016, 04:43:05 am »
The first pictures is the "c" version. Is it from real reference or just reconstructed?

Is the swept wing version fake?

Hi Zizi,

the Me.328C is real Project.

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Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2016, 11:56:02 pm »
Yes, it is.

I said about a swept wing as fake!

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2017, 04:43:02 am »
From Kryl'ya Rodine 1-2/2017.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2017, 06:37:44 am »
Yes, it is.

I said about a swept wing as fake!

The swept wing Me 328 is real btw. There's an original drawing in Hans Jacobs Pionierleben im Flugzeugbau Teil 1 by Peter Ocker.

Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2017, 07:25:36 am »
Can you post a scan? Thanks!

[/quote]

There's an original drawing in Hans Jacobs Pionierleben im Flugzeugbau Teil 1 by Peter Ocker.
[/quote]

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2017, 07:37:58 am »
Can you post a scan? Thanks!


There's an original drawing in Hans Jacobs Pionierleben im Flugzeugbau Teil 1 by Peter Ocker.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Sorry - I don't own the book but I have seen it. What I can do is show you a page of the report Ocker's drawing came from (see attached).
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 12:36:43 pm by newsdeskdan »

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2018, 05:21:06 am »
From Aero Journal 37.

Offline Hamzalippischh

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2018, 08:27:21 am »
Prototype Me 328 with four rear mounted Argus AS 014.

"АвиаПарк 2008-02"
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."
Nikola Tesla

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2018, 05:05:20 am »
Nice find my dear Hamza.