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Me 262 - Projects, Pre-Projects And Variants

moin1900

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Hi everybody

I am searching drawings of the following Me-262 variants. They are very rare !
Panzerflugzeug 1 and 2 armed with four WGR.21 and four MK-108 ? weight 7300kg ?
Me-262 A-2a/R2 ? heavy armored "Sturmjäger" ?
Me-262 A-3a ground-attack version
Me-262 D-1 armed with SG500
Me-262 E-2 armed with 48x R4M

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1854.15.html

Many greetings
 

Apophenia

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Me 262A-2a/R2 would be externally identical to the Me 262A-2a/U1. The difference was is bomb load and ammunition carried.

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/455/2/6/56
http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/instrumente/katalog/revi/DiaShow/Lotfe%207/Me262.jpg
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody

Thanks a lot ! The pictures are GREAT !
About the Panzerflugzeuge !
I have read,the Me-262 "Panzerflugzeuge" should destroy bomber formations. (Pulkzertörer)
They are heavy armored ! Like the Fw-190 A-8/R8 !
Maybe someone knows more about them ?

Many greetings
 

sagallacci

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The 'D and 'E designations are likely ficticious.
The "D" would more likely be simply a U suffix as an alternate nose, but the installation is unlikely as it would have been a one-shot weapon.
The "E" makes no sense at all, as the R4M rocket racks were a simple add-on, an R suffix at most.
I've seen, though can't recall where right off hand, a drawing of an armored canopy with a heavier armored head rest.
The illustration of a two-seater with upward firing guns is, unfortunetly, based on a post-war poorly done and semi-speculative drawing and not on any actual original design.
 

Grzesio

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chemnitzer27kb.blogspot.com
I've read about the Jaegerfaust installation on the 262 too, but - funny - it was described as a multiple Foehn rocket launcher.
I don't like this nose mounted SG500 shown here - the weapon apparently produced heavy blast when fired.

Regards

Grzesio
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody

"I've seen, though can't recall where right off hand, a drawing of an armored canopy with a heavier armored head rest." Wow Great News ! There is a drawing somewhere ! But where ?

Thanks
 

sagallacci

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a Drawing on page 71 "Jet Planes of the Third Reich" vol.1 Manfred Griehl for the armored canopy.
As for Me262 designations, Me262D-1 was alternate designation of the '262 C-2b, '262 E-1 alternate designation for '262A-1a/U4 (50mm cannon), and '262E-2 was to have RA55 automatic rocket dispensers, loaded with R4M rockets.
 

Bodmas

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I think i may be able to contribute some clarifications here.
In the official RLM designations, there was the distinction between the:
a) (Design/Specification) Designation
b) Factory Designation
And, more importantly, in this case:
c) Rustatze (Field Conversion (Kit)) &
d) Bausatze (Factory Conversion (Kit))
Each was given a systematic designation; with Design and Factory coming first (after the Spec.). (c) & (d) causing the most confusion; with (c) being the most common. A Bausatze might include powerplant and/or airframe changes (eg. Bf 109 G-K; Fw 190 A-8 to F-8); whereas a Rustatze might include as little as adding a sand filter (eg. Bf 109 F-Trop) up as far as major armament changes such as the R4M "Dodel" rocket-launchers in the Fw 190 F-8
 

Justo Miranda

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moin1900 said:
Hi everybody

"I've seen, though can't recall where right off hand, a drawing of an armored canopy with a heavier armored head rest."
Wow Great News ! There is a drawing somewhere ! But where ?

Thanks
moin1900
Here Me 262 A-3a "Panzerflugzeug"
 

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Justo Miranda

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Bodmas said:
I think i may be able to contribute some clarifications here.
In the official RLM designations, there was the distinction between the:
a) (Design/Specification) Designation
b) Factory Designation
And, more importantly, in this case:
c) Rustatze (Field Conversion (Kit)) &
d) Bausatze (Factory Conversion (Kit))
Each was given a systematic designation; with Design and Factory coming first (after the Spec.). (c) & (d) causing the most confusion; with (c) being the most common. A Bausatze might include powerplant and/or airframe changes (eg. Bf 109 G-K; Fw 190 A-8 to F-8); whereas a Rustatze might include as little as adding a sand filter (eg. Bf 109 F-Trop) up as far as major armament changes such as the R4M "Dodel" rocket-launchers in the Fw 190 F-8
R4M is "orkan"
WGr 21 is "Dodel" ;)
 

Jemiba

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R4M is "orkan", WGr 21 is "Dodel"

Careful, here an official name is mixed up, with one, that at best
was given unofficially ! Orkan probably was an official name, but
"Dödel" surely wasn't, as its translation into the english language
would be, besides "moron" or "fool", "cock" or "dick" ! ;D
"Dödelschleppen" (cock lugging) was a name given to the task of
carrying bombs with fighter aircraft, not the most liked mission for
fighter pilots, so carrying the heavy WGr.21 with its drag and
associated loss of speed and manoeuvrability got this name, too,
I think .
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody

Thanks everybody !
And thanks a lot for the great drawing !! Justo !
Is there also a drawing of the whole Me-262 A-3 ?

But what is the difference between Panzerflugzeug 1 and 2 ?

BTW here a Me-262 with Mk-114
http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/delo.htm

More about the A-3a
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/messme262.html

Many greetings
 

Avimimus

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Out of curiosity: Does anyone know the approximate position of the single Mk-108 retained in some A1a/u3?
 

Jemiba

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In "Waffenarsenal Bd.90" it is said, that the single, provisional Mk 108
was placed in the extreme nose cone, but there's no photo.
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody
I have read that the Me-262 could carry a single 1000kg bomb under the fuselage.
Maybe someone knows a drawing or picture of this combination ?
I only know the towed 1000kg bomb (Deichselschlepp).
http://luft46models.com/manufacturers/me/me262var.shtml
Maybe someone can help ?
Many greetings
 

Creative

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I vaguely recall seeing a model of what looked like a Me-262 with the cockpit moved forward near were the guns usually are. Was this real or just another what-if kitbash?
 

Antonio

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I vaguely recall seeing a model of what looked like a Me-262 with the cockpit moved forward near were the guns usually are. Was this real or just another what-if kitbash?
You mean that:

http://www.antaresmodels.com/IMAGES/Schnellbomber%20website%20ppal.JPG


It's a real design

A short reference here:

http://www.vectorsite.net/avme262.html#m7
 

toura

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Hi Aviminus
The Me 262 a3a has a better armour plate for
ground attack with always its intercepto role.
Armement ?
Bye
 

Avimimus

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That is what I thought. However, I found some online source suggesting that the armour was in place to increase the probability of surviving anti-aircraft fire and that it would carry an increased armament. I was thinking the sources might refer to a bomber variant with 4 x Mk-108? or a 6 x Mk-108 variant? Can't see the extra weight doing anything to help performance though.
 

edwest

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In Luftwaffe im Focus, Spezial No 2, there is a photo of an Me 262 carrying two 210 mm rocket tubes under the forward fuselage. The unit was III./JG 7.



Ed
 

sagallacci

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The 'A-3 variant, if it was real at all (that web site is not so good for accurate info) sounds like a simple armored up version. If they were serious about a ground strafer, they would have fitted different guns, like four Mg151/20s, with better ballistics and firing rate. The six MK108 versions were heavy bomber destroyers only. I don't doubt that more armor was at least considered, but as it would have been installed internally, wouldn't show, except for the possible armored canopy that did not appear to have been actually built.
 

sagallacci

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Here is a snap of my conversion of the Trumpeter 1/32 '262A-2 into a Schnellbomber. Toi be a bit more accurate, the front windscreen needs to be a touch more angled and the retractable footstep is my own artistic license. If anyone is interested, I've got vac copies of the canopy and nose for a simple conversion.
 

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hesham

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Hi,

here is;

Me-262 W1
Me-262 W3
Me-262 Lorin
Me-262 Heimatschutzer IV
Me-262 Schnellbomber/Aukflärer version
 

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Apophenia

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Chicken kana said:
My question is what like ?SG500? is ?
If you're asking what was the SG500, see here:

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%20Sondergeraete/SG%20500/SG%20500%20Jagdfaust%20J%E4gerfaust.htm
 

Antonio

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never heard about Me-262 W1 and W3 variants, please can anyone confirm its existence?

Thanks in advance.

Antonio
 

Chicken kana

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Apophenia said:
Chicken kana said:
My question is what like ?SG500? is ?
If you're asking what was the SG500, see here:

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%20Sondergeraete/SG%20500/SG%20500%20Jagdfaust%20J%E4gerfaust.htm
That Logo has two other missile I guestion what they name are.
 

borovik

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pometablava said:
never heard about Me-262 W1 and W3 variants, please can anyone confirm its existence?

Thanks in advance.

Antonio
The monograph S. Fleischer and M. Rys "Me 262 schwalbe." Vol.2,
given lateral projections of these two projects, besides in page 20 is a description of the Me-262 W2, but pulse-jet Argus As 014 engines of this project had an additional rocket engine in the tail of the aircraft,
such a schemes Heimatschutzer I.
 

Antonio

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Thanks a lot Borovik

That birds look too weird!
 

borovik

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Yes, Antonio, agrees.
Although perfect artistry Josef Gatial's, these birds are more than realistic ... ;D
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1854.0/all.html
 

sagallacci

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It was only a very preliminary design, using the Me262B2 (the kit doesn't represent the 'B2 correctly) and the new turboprop engine, which was still also just a preliminary design at that point. While references suggest that some construction of the 'B2 may have begun, none were apparently finished or flown(would have been fitted with conventional Jumo 004s). The turbo-prop version of the HeS011 never got to hardware at all.
 

Michel Van

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that a DFS Ainring Study "Lorin" from January 1945
2xJumbo 004 B jet engine and 2x"Lorin Rohren" ramjets
Fast climber 10000 meter in 6 minute (standart Me 262 - 26 Minute)
max height 15450 meter
max speed in 10000 meter 1070 km/h (standart Me 262 - 870 km/h in 6000 Meter)
max range 470 km (standart Me 262 - 1400 km)
Fly Duration 50 minute (standart Me 262 - 145 minute)


That's Me 262 C-3a Heimatschützer IV (Heimatschützer = Homeland protector)
a Jet/Rocket Interceptor in 1944 !
first version was Me 262 C-1a Heimatschützer I
with Walter HWK R II/211(109-509 A-2) Rocketengine build inside stern of Me 262
but the Test were not successful
Second version Me 262 C-2b Heimatschützer II
with 2xBMW 003 TLR a Jetengine with BMW P.3395 rocket engine !
during test, one of BMW 003 TLR explode. in others test they bust into fire
Third Version Me 262 C-3a Heimatschützer IV
a Walter HWK 509 A-2 Rocket engine in drop pod under Me 263
after the disaster with C-1 to C-2 this concept was consider Ideal
need only standart Me 262 - and Drop pod Engine can be used for other Aircrafts

Source:
German edition of
"Me 262 Volume II" by J.Richard Smith, Eddi J. Creek
 
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