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Author Topic: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)  (Read 97825 times)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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OK, lets go back to the AX competition and the original bids submitted.

Quote
On May 8th, 1970, the AX SPO issued a request for proposal (RFP) to 12 aircraft manufacturers. Six of the 12 companies given the RFP responded with proposals: Boeing, Cessna, Fairchild Hiller, General Dynamics, Lockheed and Northrop.

Cessna's submission

Source:
A-37 in Action, Squadron-Signal

« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 12:33:35 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2006, 11:16:13 pm »
These were found on the internet. No confirmation of authenticity...

Quote
During the summer of 1967, tests were conducted in the Langley 7- by 10-Foot High-Speed Tunnel on designs submitted by Grumman, Northrop, McDonnell, and General Dynamics. In 1970, the requirements for the A-X mission were changed, and the Air Force issued a new request for proposals (RFP). Six companies responded to the RFP

http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Partners/A_10.html

The Grumman design must be from the 1967 period, as they did not respond to the 1970 RFP
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 01:05:43 am by overscan »
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Offline Antonio

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2006, 06:31:29 am »
Overscan,

both pictures are authentic. I post it about two years ago in whatifmodelers forum in a thread about AX contenders.

You can find the Boeing Vertol AX on page 47, Le Fana de l'Aviation number 384. November 2001. The Article is Northrop YA-9, rapace resté poussin by Alexis Rocher. Excellent article, I recommend it ;)

Grumman AX contender is a Mohawk derivative. Lark sent me a photocopy from AW&ST (I think) to take the scan for whatifmodelers forum. According to that article, it is Grumman's proposal to AX, not an unsolicited design...


Regards,

Antonio

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2006, 06:37:21 am »
I think you misunderstood me.

There were two phases of the AX program. Stage 1 in 1967, where Grumman were involved, was primarily a COIN aircraft, Vietnam style, and so turboprop designs made sense. In 1970, the requirements were altered in such a way as to favour a turbofan powered design, and Grumman appear to have declined to bid at this time, given that their design was probably not appropriate for the new RFP.
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Offline Antonio

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2006, 08:08:17 am »
You're right, plase accept my apologies.

I misunderstood you because I didn't knew about that two phases. I thought it was only one. Thanks for your comment, this information gives me a new light about the AX competition....in fact I didn't understand well the disparities between the contenders.
Now I can see it clearly:

Stage I (1967):

Turboprop, a sort of heavy weight COIN

Grumman
Boeing Vertol
Cavalier Turbo-Mustang III

Stage II (May 1970):

Jet (Double flux), big gun (GAU-8 program started in November 1970)

Northrop
Lockheed
Fairchild
Cessna


Offline lark

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2006, 10:54:25 am »
A-10 contenders...

6 March 1967 : first RFP send to 21 manufactureres.
Design studies for a low cost attack aircraft under designation A-X

2 May 1967 : preliminary designs studies awarded to General Dynamics , Grumman
Northrop and Mc Donnell

meanwhile need arose for an aircraft able to accurate strafing in close proximity
of friendly forced (results of Vietnam war)
and
an aircraft with a gun suitable for knocking out tanks(results of 6-day war in June 1967)

7 March 1970 - definitive RFP send to 12 manufacturers.Submission date 10.8.1970
Of the dozen manufacturers that received an  A-X RFP , six responded in time.

Boeing Vertol , Cessna, Fairchild Republic Aviation division , General Dynamics
Lockheed and Northrop.
Boeing Vertol submitted the only prop. driven design and was quickly eliminated.

18 December 1970 - two contractors selected : Fairchild and Northrop.
March 1971 Nortrop and Fairchild received official designations.
YA-9 for Northrop and YA-10 for Fairchild.

So far....

Several sources .Ammong them Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II  - Ian Allan.
                                            The Thunderfactory- Joshua Stoff- Arms & Armour

P.S The Lockheed contenders L-1400-1 and L-1400-2
       are on page 205 of "Lockheed Skunkworks" -Jay Miller . Aerofax.
                 
Paul.

Offline Matej

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 12:30:09 pm »
Under picture named "GrummanAX" was originally written:

Configuration based on the OV-1 Mohawk is one concept under study by Grumman Aerospace Corp. for the expected USAF AX ground-support aircraft program. The concept incorporates a new nose and cockpit section, strengthened fuselage and wings and more powerful engines, probably turboprops. The AX design would carry a lighter avionics load than current reconnaissance version of the Mohawk, but would have a greater weapons stores capacity.

Used words "expected USAF AX program" indicates, that it was before 1970 era.

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 02:27:27 pm »
Quote
The USAF has issued requests for proposals for its single-seat twin-engined AX close support aircraft to 12 companies. The proposals are scheduled to be presented within 90 days of the issue of the request, and the evaluation of the competitive RFPs is expected to be completed in approximately 75 days of their receipt. Two of the contenders will then be selected for a 26-month competitive development phase. Envisaged as a relatively simple and inexpensive aircraft capable of supporting mobile army units from forward-area strips, the AX will be powered by twin turboprops with the Lycoming T55 as the primary candidate, will carry an ordnance load of the order of 8.000 lb (3 629 kg) and possess a combat radius of some 290 miles (470 km). Primary requirements include a low-cost navigation system, 30-mm rotary cannon armament, and high survivability.

Flying Review International, July 1970
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2006, 12:55:43 pm »
Better versions of the Lockheed AX project drawings (L-1400)
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Offline Antonio

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2006, 02:38:56 am »
the AX scan comes from Le Fana


[picture from initial post by Jemiba attached here for coherence]
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 05:40:19 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2006, 11:06:53 am »
"the AX scan comes from Le Fana"

Thanks, I'll add it to the description, although I found it somewhere
in the net. Is there any relàtion to the model 147 ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Antonio

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2006, 11:39:48 am »
I posted it for the first time at whatifmodelers forum about 3-4 years ago. I can't remember if it is any relationship with Model 147 but I'll try to verify it later

Offline Antonio

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2006, 01:57:59 am »
Dear Hesham,

I'm sorry but I can't understand very much the text but I can't find the reference to the Model 147. Can you tell me where is it?.


This is for Jemiba

Le Fana Nº384. November 2001 "Northrop YA-9" by Alexis Rocher
The Boeing AX drawing is on page 47. According to the text, there was an internal design competition: Boeing against Vertol. Vertol with Mark Kirshner's project won. That project was based on tilt wing studies after the Type 76.

I hope this info could be useful :)

cheers
Antonio



Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2006, 05:03:41 pm »
Found via google patent search. Northrop design, seems to be related to early stages of AX.

Patent: D218,856
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Offline Pioneer

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Re: AX Contenders (alternatives to the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2006, 07:42:00 pm »
Great find with the Northrop 'early AX design' drawings, Overscan!
Does the Patent info you found have any technical data/specifications ????

Regards
Pioneer
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