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Author Topic: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster  (Read 216665 times)

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2014, 04:09:05 am »
yes that true, they are naval guns,
but those Turrets are they now original Navy or build by Wehrmacht to take the gun ?
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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2014, 07:15:18 pm »
They were military barbettes for naval guns.   As such, they were more lightly armoured than naval barbettes (relying on concrete and earth berms for most of their defence).   If they were to be mounted onto a land vehicle, they'd need serious up-armouring even beyond that of the naval barbettes.   

Offline athpilot

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2014, 11:28:37 am »
They were military barbettes for naval guns.   As such, they were more lightly armoured than naval barbettes (relying on concrete and earth berms for most of their defence).   If they were to be mounted onto a land vehicle, they'd need serious up-armouring even beyond that of the naval barbettes.
... ist the german navy no "military"?! ???
@ Michel Van:
The Wehrmacht has never built anything. The german Industry has built the turrets (most likely Thyssen-Krupp). But I d´ont know for sure if the Kriegsmarine was the client. I guess they were.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2014, 01:06:33 pm »
I thought, we were speaking about the heavy artillery ? The naval turrets had up
to 340 mm armour, I don't think, that this would have been necessary for use on
those vehicles, apart from the fact, that it would have added far too much weight,
The 12.8, or maybe 10.5 cm twin mountings would have had just protection against
splinters and that would have been enough for the task, that those vehicles could
have fulfilled: Selfpropelled heavy artillery.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2014, 02:47:51 pm »
I thought, we were speaking about the heavy artillery ? The naval turrets had up
to 340 mm armour, I don't think, that this would have been necessary for use on
those vehicles, apart from the fact, that it would have added far too much weight,
The 12.8, or maybe 10.5 cm twin mountings would have had just protection against
splinters and that would have been enough for the task, that those vehicles could
have fulfilled: Selfpropelled heavy artillery.

It would take about 80mm of armour to fend off a RP-3 rocket or a 75mm round from an M5 cannon. I wonder if the roof armour would've been thick enough?

The real danger would come from bombs (cratering and near hits). Such a target is much slower and less maneuverable than a ship under power - so dive bombing with even fairly light bombs might do it in. It is also large enough that level bombers could spot it and drop a stick on it. A single raid by 20-100 aircraft and your artillery platform is gone.

Of course, if you surrounded it by flak guns (similar to a flak tower) you might be able to shoot down a fair number of those aircraft. Such a weapon would distract from other targets - and the long range artillery it could provide would be irritating enough that the enemy wouldn't be able to ignore it (for morale reasons if nothing else).

Still though, despite my rationalisations - it is still hard to conceive of this making any sense at all.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2014, 11:23:35 pm »
They were military barbettes for naval guns.   As such, they were more lightly armoured than naval barbettes (relying on concrete and earth berms for most of their defence).   If they were to be mounted onto a land vehicle, they'd need serious up-armouring even beyond that of the naval barbettes.
... ist the german navy no "military"?! ???
@ Michel Van:
The Wehrmacht has never built anything. The german Industry has built the turrets (most likely Thyssen-Krupp). But I d´ont know for sure if the Kriegsmarine was the client. I guess they were.

"Military" generally refers to the Army in most English speaking nations.  "Naval" refers specifically to the Navy, which interestingly enough is also a military force but not considered the Military.

Isn't English fun?   I suspect we make it deliberately confusing just to annoy non-English speakers!   ;D

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #51 on: March 12, 2015, 08:10:16 am »
On a side note, relating to the Schwerer Gustav, here's a interesting photo via wizzed.com:
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Offline sgeorges4

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2018, 06:42:07 am »

Offline TsrJoe

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2018, 07:50:43 am »
Tank Museum, Bovington, June 2018
...'excuse me mister, is that plane for real'...!!!

IPMS (UK) 'Project Cancelled' SIG. co,co-ordinator
IPMS (UK) 'TSR-2', 'Cold War' & 'What-if' SIG. Member

Offline moin1900

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2018, 04:23:07 am »
An excellent book about this topic.

"Überschwere Panzerprojekte" by Michael Fröhlich.

The book covers the history of german super-heavy tanks like the P.1000, the super-heavy Panzermörser "Urling" and many others like the E-series.

Offline moin1900

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2018, 02:47:00 am »
Überschwere Panzerprojekte by Michael Fröhlich
Here the Index/Inhaltsverzeichnis of the book.
http://d-nb.info/1098444191

Offline pometablava

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2018, 05:44:22 am »
Also from the author
Michael Fröhlich
Panzerkampfwagen Maus: Der überschwere Panzer Porsche Typ 205

Offline Foo Fighter

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Re: Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte and P. 1500 Monster
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2018, 02:18:34 pm »
They were military barbettes for naval guns.   As such, they were more lightly armoured than naval barbettes (relying on concrete and earth berms for most of their defence).   If they were to be mounted onto a land vehicle, they'd need serious up-armouring even beyond that of the naval barbettes.
... ist the german navy no "military"?! ???
@ Michel Van:
The Wehrmacht has never built anything. The german Industry has built the turrets (most likely Thyssen-Krupp). But I d´ont know for sure if the Kriegsmarine was the client. I guess they were.

"Military" generally refers to the Army in most English speaking nations.  "Naval" refers specifically to the Navy, which interestingly enough is also a military force but not considered the Military.

Isn't English fun?   I suspect we make it deliberately confusing just to annoy non-English speakers!   ;D

Not to be argumentative but, I have never come across the point made above.  The word Military has always meant, Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines collective.