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Author Topic: Taildog/SRAAM AAM  (Read 22029 times)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2007, 10:15:50 pm »
So was SRARM something equivalent to an advanced Sidearm (ARM derivative of AIM-9C) for air-to-ground use or was it intended for air-to-air use to make BVR-capable adversaries keep their radars off and cut any advantages their radar would give them?

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2007, 01:46:07 am »
Air-to-ground as I recall. I think it had an odd "offset" nose design. Would like to photogaph the model one day.
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Offline TinWing

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2007, 04:22:21 pm »
So was SRARM something equivalent to an advanced Sidearm (ARM derivative of AIM-9C) for air-to-ground use or was it intended for air-to-air use to make BVR-capable adversaries keep their radars off and cut any advantages their radar would give them?

Wasn't the intended target of Sidearm the radar on the ZSU 23-4 Shilka self-propelled antiaircraft gun?  The intended platform for Sidearm was apparently the Marine AH-1W Cobra. 

Offline JAZZ

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2007, 02:51:11 am »
SRARM photo

Offline TinWing

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2007, 07:43:39 am »
SRARM photo

Hmmm....

I seem to see what appears to be a very normal conical nose.

Offline Harrier

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2007, 09:51:59 am »
Air-to-ground as I recall. I think it had an odd "offset" nose design. Would like to photogaph the model one day.

SRARM photo

Hmmm....

I seem to see what appears to be a very normal conical nose.

Well, two versions of one project would be unsurprising. I assume the 'offset' nose version ( I have seen a pic) used a dual sensor system - RF and IR I guess. This has been proposed for other ARMs.

On a related note, in 1995 BAe proposed the Typhoon missile, based on ASRAAM with a shortened rocket motor and Trigat tandem warhead. This lost out to Brimstone, although it was supposed to have AAM capability as it kept the ASRAAM IR sensor.
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Offline TinWing

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2007, 10:44:35 am »
I have seen a picture of the confusingly name Typhoon missile on a triple launcher at an airshow.  (I can only assume that BAe named this AMRAAM derivative before the Eurofighter gained the "Typhoon" moniker.)

It is interesting to note that the Typhoon gained two long strakes that ran around half the length on the airframe - perhaps to increase the range?  Otherwise this proposal looked similar to ASRAAM. 

I can only assume that the IR seeker had been reprogramed for ground based targets, although it is an open question whether an adapted IR anti-aircraft missile seeker would be as effective against ground targets as a purpose built MMW radar seeker? 

I would assume that an ASRAAM based airframe would have had dynamic and range advantages over a Hellfire based airframe that weights only have as much.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2007, 11:32:26 am »
Some clarification on designations. The original manufacturer project was Taildog. This was followed by SRAAM-100, which was aimed at ASR.1222, a requirement for a new short range AAM to replace AIM-9D in RAF service.

 The problem with SRAAM-100 was it was considered too ambitious to meet ASR.1222 which specified a 1975 in service date. This was then replaced by SRAAM-75, which basically went with less ambitious components including less advanced seeker in order to meet the 1975 in service date.

Possible mixed buys of AIM-9L and SRAAM-75 was considered, but in the end, AIM-9L was procured, with SRAAM proceeding as a technology demonstrator.
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Offline Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2007, 10:09:56 am »
The early-1970s Taildog missile project gave way to the version known as SRAAM. Around eight guided launches of the latter missile were carried out under a technology-demonstration programme, proving its then-novel vectored thrust control system.

SRAAM formed the basis of the Future Air-to-Air Missile which was rejected in August 1977 by the Government of the time in favour of the AIM-9L version of Sidewinder. FAAM would have used a three-nozzle thrust vectoring control system, plus some aerodynamic control.

In retrospect, the rejection of SRAAM was a wise decision, an engineer associated with the programme told me about a decade later. The weapon had been based an analogue electronics, so offered little potential for further development. The changes needed to create a digital equivalent would have been so drastic that the end result would have been for all practical purposes and all-new missile.

By the early 1980s, engineers decided that thrust vectoring was both costly and heavy, so adopted a  wingless missile combining aerodynamic tail control and body lift  for the ASRAAM programme.

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Offline zen

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2007, 04:47:44 pm »
No ASRAAM would've been a right decision in the early 70's even if it meant the development of a new digital missile later on in the 80's.

Offline red admiral

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2009, 08:05:51 am »
I went over to the Bristol Aero Collection on Monday. I didn't see SRARM anywhere (I think they might mean S225X) but did find the twin box launcher for SRAAM. There are a few other gems there as well.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 01:14:53 am by overscan »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2011, 01:06:04 am »
Nice! Missed those pics somehow.


Here's a shot of a Hunter with the twin launcher.
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=25060&p=265201&hilit=hatfield+1979#p256641


Also a shot of SRAAM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SRAAM_missile.jpg
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 01:15:29 am by overscan »
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Offline Hobbes

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 12:37:44 pm »
That pic of the Hunter probably shows the same launcher that's now in the Bristol Aero collection. I'm not sure if it's a genuine article or a mockup.

The missile photo posted by Overscan was taken (by me) at Cosford. That one I'm quite sure is a mockup: the fins are fixed (they would have been hinged on the real missile), and the nose dome looks like it's painted on the inside.

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2014, 05:41:20 pm »
So, based upon this post:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9360.msg101807.html#msg101807

Was it considered as a rear firing defensive weapon? Did thrust vectoring make this a possibility? Any more information on this idea?

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Taildog/SRAAM AAM
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2014, 07:12:24 am »
According to British Secret Projects 4: Missiles and hypersonics, yes. The Air Staff expressed interest in rear-firing missiles around 1969, with the HS. 1184-16 as one possible implementation. No additional information though.