Register here

Author Topic: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies  (Read 67296 times)

Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8553
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2007, 02:36:47 pm »
First three illustrations of 'The Grumman Research Fighter' (design by Nathan Kirschbaum) from
"Configuration Development of Advanced Fighters”
by Paul Bavitz, N. Kirschbaum. et al.,
AFWAL-TR-80-3142, Nov. 1980
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7071
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2007, 08:16:47 am »
This design prompted some "Stealth" speculation

Does anyone have any indication as to dimensions for this plane???
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8553
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2007, 10:23:30 am »
Scott, it's so much fictional as should be its sizes. I've only have seen two artist's renderings posted here. That's all.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10794
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2007, 10:51:59 am »
Never seen it in anything official like AIAA report or suchlike, only those 2 pics in contemporary books and magazines. Looks fairly large to judge from the cockpit size. I *think* that the second pic, that flateric posted, might be of a model photographed (and built?) by Erik Simonsen for Bill Yenne's "WARPLANES OF THE 21ST CENTURY".
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 11:07:56 am by overscan »
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8553
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2007, 03:09:33 pm »
Extended version of the drawing with a tiny side view.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Deino

  • Our China Correspondent
  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 2435
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2007, 11:06:04 pm »
Hey ... a future modelling project for Scott !!??

Cheer, Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10794
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2007, 12:04:29 am »
Best I can do for the tiny sideview.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10794
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2007, 12:31:29 am »
Same project - useful simplified sketch
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10794
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2007, 12:46:54 am »
And again
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 12:50:06 am by overscan »
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10794
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2007, 01:10:07 am »
Added some additional images to the posts at the beginning of this topic.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2007, 01:58:32 am »
Two pictures of Grumman concepts, that to my opinion fell into this
theme, although no relation to ATF is explicitely mentioned in the advert
and the description :
(from Aviation Week 1976 1 and 10) :
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22023

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22023
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2008, 04:50:47 am »
Hi,

I know it was from NASA sketch,but it look like Grumman pre-ATF project.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840010096_1984010096.pdf

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22023
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2008, 04:57:44 am »
Also look like the Grumman designs,
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 04:24:21 am by hesham »

Offline Sundog

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2485
Re: Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2008, 05:51:28 pm »
Actually the design Hesham just posted reminds me alot of the McDonnell-Douglas ATS concept.