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Wolfgang and Ulrich Hütter projects

hesham

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Hi,

The Hutter Hu-136 dive bomber project.
 

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Firefly 2

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hesham said:
Hi,

The Hutter Hu-136 dive bomber project.
Yeeeeees!
The whole " Luftwaffe secret projects" is a true gem!
I always wondered how pilots would have liked this plane. The heavy armouring gives a pilot a very poor field of view.
 

Jemiba

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"I always wondered how pilots would have liked this plane."

I don't think, that the designer had to care for the pilots comfort. He just had
to care for not being send to the eastern front ! And that meant: Designing,
designing, designing .... Some people even say, that some designers didn't even
stop designing aircraft, when the war was long over ... ;D
 

Firefly 2

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Jemiba said:
"I always wondered how pilots would have liked this plane."

I don't think, that the designer had to care for the pilots comfort. He just had
to care for not being send to the eastern front ! And that meant: Designing,
designing, designing .... Some people even say, that some designers didn't even
stop designing aircraft, when the war was long over ... ;D
Well, they created a legacy of designs that nothing short of revolutionised the industry, so good for them!
 

Hood

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I think a diagram in German Secret Projects actually shows the vertical field of view from the windscreen over the nose (of the Hu-136). I'd hate to have to land the Hutter.

I know Hutter planned a long-range high-aspect ratio wooden winnged version of the He 219, the Hu-211 but what else did they design during the war?
 

Wurger

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hello guys :),

the Hütter brothers, Wolfgang and Ulrich, designed a series of aircraft projects based on their experience on gliders. My main source of information regarding their work is the third volume of the series "Geheimprojekte der Luftwaffe", by Herwig/Rode, Motorbuch Verlag, but I believe there are more on this besides the long range destroyer ( depicted below, taken from the same book ) from 1942, the Hü 136 Stubos ( 1/2 ), the Hü 211 and the attack aircraft with 2 As044 from 1945. Does anyone know more projects from Hütter?
 

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hesham

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Good fing my dear Wurger,

but the destroyer project was from 1942.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aircraft_of_Germany_by_manufacturer
 

Wurger

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Hi Hesham :),

nice to have you here. Yes, the long range destroyer was from 1942, as I wrote in the first place. Your source, despite the fact that it is correct in this subject, does not merit much confidence from me, tough.

Manfred Griehl mentions another project in his "Luftwaffe Over America" book, page 176: a Hütter bomber project using Ju 388 parts, expected to fly at 700 km/h.

Any comments/additions?
 

Wurger

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hi Justo :D,

that`s the one. This would not be much bigger than the Ju 388, I believe, and therefore not capable of carrying an useful payload and lacking range .It would probably sport new wooden wings and tailplane, much on the line of the Hü 211. A not likely candidate to be a "Amerika Bomber". But, of course, this is just speculation...
 

hesham

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Hi,

the Hutter Hu. "Zerstorer" was a real project I spoke about it before,but I don't know what its
configuration is ?.


http://www.fact-archive.com/encyclopedia/List_of_military_aircraft_of_Germany_by_manufacturer
 

Justo Miranda

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Basil said:
Hü-Zerstörer: Hütter was a designer of high performance sail planes. He also designed a wing for a reconnaissance version of the Heinkel He 219, but there was no Zerstörer-project (Zerstörer means destroyer = heavy fighter). Besides, the concept with narrow wings and Argus pulso-engines hung below them is structurally absurd.
borovik said:
Hutter low-level & ground attack project (1945)
Dieter Herwig & Heinz Rode "Luftwaffe Secret Project - Ground attack & Special purpose aircraft." p.68
Hütter Zerstorer
from
-Die Luftwaffe Projecte der deutschen luftrüstung-Band 1 , by Ingolf Meyer 2004
 

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sagallacci

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Schwarzadler said:
so far no NG nor forum can provide actual pics for:
- Hutter Hu-211 (2 under construction, bombed)
Only actual images related to the Hu211 I've found were the mock-ups for the Jumo 222 engine nacel and main gear and a wind tunnel model based on the Ju388 fuselage. That actually makes more sense in that it would have a pressurize cockpit for the crew. Or even some mutant machine, like the He219C, which would have had the Ju388 cockpit fitted to a modified He fuselage. Best evidence so far suggests the wings were never fitted to any machine before they were destroyed.
That a He319 ever got built is news to me and I rather doubt it, being an all new design.
I would not be surprised if at least one He419 got built, as it was a relatively simple modification, but four?
Considering that there is next to no surviving basic documentation on these machines, demands for photos seems kind of silly.
 

Artie Bob

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If I can locate it, I have a copy of a document written (and drawn) by on of the Hütter brothers when interogated in 1945. It gives a chronology of all their work and designs from prewar gliders on. The sketches of the 8-211 are fairly detailed. I looked before writing this post but could not find the right folder, if it turns up, I will post the chronology, as it should be pretty definitive.
Best regards,
Artie Bob
 

Artie Bob

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Found it! Here is the list taken from Hütter’s own document made on July 21,1945.

1929-30 IMI tailess glider
1933 HT 23 tandem wing glider
1934 H 17 glider trainer
1935 H 28 glider
1936 H 28 II simplified H 28
1937 Gö 4 glider trainer
1938 H 28 III competition glider
1939 Gö 8 2 seat flying model of Dornier 8 engine flying boat
Gö 9 1 seat pusher test aircraft for Dornier
1941-43 Design of ailerons, flaps and horizontal stabilizer Me 321 & Me 323
1941-43 Windmill powerplant design
1942-43 Design wooden wing for Bf 109
1942-43 Hü 21 High performance 2 seat glider
1944-45 Hü 211 High altitude long range version of He 219 (9200km range@7km)
1944-45 Low drag auxiliary tanks for Fw 190
1945 Single seat fighter with 2 Argus jets

There is a nice drawing of the 211 and it did not show a "V" tail. Also there is a simple sketch of the Argus fighter and it does not look at all like the drawing posted.

Best Regards,
Artie Bob
 

Wurger

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Hi Artie Bob,
I believe the list isn`t complete, ignoring the "Ostmark" series, which is historically real, but it is pretty impressive to know. One of the brothers were more keen on airplanes, the other on power generating windmills. The report was most probably based on this latter Hütter contributions, but that`s me speculating.
Anyhow, can you please post the Hü 211 drawings, as well as the single seat fighter with Argus jets? That would be super for all of us :eek: !
 

shedofdread

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The planform of the Hu211's wings - very reminiscent of the planform of a modern (or at least '90s) sailplane. Rather 'Dg600-esque'. Evidence of advanced thinking?

S
(sorry, I'll go back to modern stuff area, now - just wandered in here and got looking at the pictues :) )
 

Flitzer

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Wurger said:
hello guys :) ,

the Hütter brothers, Wolfgang and Ulrich, designed a series of aircraft projects based on their experience on gliders. My main source of information regarding their work is the third volume of the series "Geheimprojekte der Luftwaffe", by Herwig/Rode, Motorbuch Verlag, but I believe there are more on this besides the long range destroyer ( depicted below, taken from the same book ) from 1942, the Hü 136 Stubos ( 1/2 ), the Hü 211 and the attack aircraft with 2 As044 from 1945. Does anyone know more projects from Hütter?

Hi again.


As the engines are mounted side by side mid-ships, would the props have been shaft driven through the wings to slim nacelles similar to the ArE561?


Many thanks
P
 

robunos

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As the engines are mounted side by side mid-ships, would the props have been shaft driven through the wings to slim nacelles similar to the ArE561?

The propellers are nose mounted, and driven by extension shafts...
Regarding the Hu 211, I would agree with Wurger that the wings would be straight tapered, however, I don't think that the vee tail would be used.


cheers,
Robin.
 

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Maveric

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1942-43 Hü 21 High performance 2 seat glider


I´m intersted in drawings from this projects :eek:
 

Flitzer

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robunos said:
As the engines are mounted side by side mid-ships, would the props have been shaft driven through the wings to slim nacelles similar to the ArE561?

The propellers are nose mounted, and driven by extension shafts...
Regarding the Hu 211, I would agree with Wurger that the wings would be straight tapered, however, I don't think that the vee tail would be used.


cheers,
Robin.

Thanks Robin
old eyes and dark glasses.
P
 

Wurger

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Wurger asked Artie Bob

can you please post the Hü 211 drawings, as well as the single seat fighter with Argus jets? That would be super for all of us
!
Please B) !!
 

sagallacci

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The windtunnel model has a Ju388 cockpit and fuselage, which makes sense as the original Hu211 concept was to adapt the Hutter wing to improve a (any?) twin-engine type, and the Ju388 already had a pressurized cockpit.
The buried engine design is, to my mind, a bit suspect, in that it has upright V engines. Perhaps just a wishful thinking design to suit a stylistic rather than realistic sensibility?
 

Jemiba

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Ulrich W. Hütter was born in Czechoslovakia, but finished school in Salzburg and studied
in Vienna. Maybe that was the reason, his attempts to apply his experience with high aspect
ratio wings were summarised under this name ?
 

Stargazer2006

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New topic split from the old generic "Projects from Germany" thread.

In an edited post, hesham mentioned that "Hutter had a project for destroyer aircraft (fernzerstorer)."

Any idea what this might be?
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
The Hutter Hu-136 dive bomber project.
Also see this topic about the scale model:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4485.0
 

Stargazer2006

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I thought we had something on the Gö 9 somewhere on this forum but I couldn't find it, so here goes, from RAF Flying Review, February 1961:
 

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hesham

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Artie Bob said:
Found it! Here is the list taken from Hütter’s own document made on July 21,1945.

1929-30 IMI tailess glider
1933 HT 23 tandem wing glider
1942-43 Hü 21 High performance 2 seat glider

There is a nice drawing of the 211 and it did not show a "V" tail. Also there is a simple sketch of the Argus fighter and it does not look at all like the drawing posted.

Best Regards,
Artie Bob

Hi Artie,


sorry for my late respond,I just see your reply about Hutter aircraft and projects,please can you display to
us those four designs,if you have a drawings to them or more Info,thanks in advanced.
 

Wurger

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Artie Bob, back in 2014 told us that "... there is a simple sketch of the Argus fighter and it does not look at all like the drawing posted". The list provided by the Hütter brothers was far from complete, but I believe the drawing they provided, sporting Argus As-014`s was in fact a fighter, not the one mentioned as "zerstörer", albeit with the same motorization. In the book "Wunibald i. e. Kamm - Wegbereiter der Modernen Kraftfahrtechnik", which I recommend to those who love sheer engineering genius, the author mentions an experimental "interceptor"(abfangjäger) named as "Fagott". Kamm`s FKFS tested the pulsejet using brown coal dust, while there were joint efforts by the Gebr. Hütter GmbH in Kirchheim/Teck with a Dr. Wahl from the Metallwarenfabrik Spaichingen.
I guess we now need to know that drawing, Artie Bob! "Fagott" is his name!
 

hesham

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My dear Wurger,

even with this drawing,it was not the real appearance for it ?.
 

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Wurger

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Hesham, it`s not the "Ostmark" zerstoerer, it`s the one depicted with twin Argus pulsejets.
 

sienar

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From the horses mouth so to speak. Really want to see that windmill project.
hutter projects.pnghutter projects 2.png
 
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