Yes, it is fake, but not from post war era, it is from this yearMichel Van said:sadly it is fake from post war era
more info here
It's *not* a zerstorer. The earliest publication of that diagram that anyone has found was a few years post-war, and was not described as a wartime design; it was called a passenger transport. And if you look at it, you can see the passenger windows. Windows that do *not* make sense for a military aircraftVladimir said:And Did someone have more info about Zestrorer I concept?
Are you actually asking for proof that they were fake?hesham said:
In order to get definitive proof, you would need to find whoever the anonymous source was who handed them to Karl Pawlas in the mid-1970s. The appearance of these designs in Luftfahrt International Nr. 18 of 1976 was the first time anyone had ever seen them and is the only source for them. Pawlas himself, who clearly stated in the article that they could be postwar designs, died in 2014 so we can't ask him (it'd be great if someone in Germany could track down his family and see whether it'd be possible to access his personal archive, if it still survives).hesham said:Yes my dear GTX.GTX said:
I admire your persistence in believing in a fantasy. Pawlas thought they were probably fake, and there's a 99% chance that they are. Surely it's better to go looking for the real lost Messerschmitt designs than keep on clinging to these dodgy doodles.hesham said:Thank you my dear Dan,
and I think a great magazine (Luftfahrt) didn't chance by its reputation and published a fake designs,second,for
the drawings were very close to P.1106 & P.1108,I give you an example,I am a very small designer of aircraft,I created
about 30 types,in many of them,you will see front nose,wings shape,landing gear and tail unit were resemble
to each other,that's a clue for me the creator,in the same case the Messerschmitt.
Of course not,a reliable source only.newsdeskdan said:Leaving aside the fact that Pawlas put them in Luftfahrt International, persuade me that you're right, and that they're real. What is it about them that convinces you?
I wouldn't characterise Pawlas as entirely reliable. He did invaluable work in printing facsimiles of original documents but as a writer, editor and critic he was very much of his time. The most reliable German secret projects author seems so far to be Walter Schick and even he wasn't above getting things wrong. Creek and Smith are generally good, Forsyth too, and Lommel. Griehl has his moments. Not one of them is entirely infallible.hesham said:
That's your guess,speculation and opinion,not convince me,maybe all of them were fake,but as I learned in this great site,hesham said:Of course not,a reliable source only.
I have that book, and some bits and pieces from Nowarra's collection which was broken up and sold after his death. The first drawing is from a 1950s report that's unrelated to Messerschmitt - there was a copy of it on eBay a couple of years back. I'm guessing it got lumped in with 'Messerschmitt' because of its P 1109-ish layout. The second drawing is one of the 1976 animal names designs (Nowarra was writing in the early 1990s) and the third one I don't know, although I vaguely recall seeing it somewhere other than Nowarra's chuck-absolutely-everything-in-no-matter-where-you-got-it four volume set. The first one is definitely not Messerschmitt, the second is 99% likely to be not Messerschmitt and the third, don't know.hesham said:That's your guess,speculation and opinion,not convince me,maybe all of them were fake,but as I learned in this great site,hesham said:Of course not,a reliable source only.
only reliable source can confirm that.
In the book; Die Deutsche Luftruestung 1933-1945 - Vol.3 - Henschel-Messerschmitt,which my dear Justo quote from it in
rely # 15,they insisted about those were a real Projects,and even anther un-numbered Projects consider a real in that bible,
and I am asking,why you don't object on those Projects also ?!.
No way to compare,AW displayed just a speculative designs,but for Luftfahrt,they introduced a real ProjectsOrionblamblam said:Aviation Week is considered a reliable source, yet they've published incorrect, goofy and just plain unsubstantiated stuff from time to time (Soviet atomic bombers, "flaming pumpkin seeds," Aurora sightings, etc.).
Luftfarht Intl. also published nonsense about German wartime flying saucers.
Strange that the P 1106 should have been included in this topic, since it was real! Maybe it was meant to be the P 1116, which wasn't.hesham said:From Jet Planes of the Third Reich - The Secret Projects-volume one,
the author claims that,the Messerschmitt Schwalbe maybe called P.1115,also some
drawings to P.1106.