What if - North Korean nuke attack on the US?

[Steve Pace]

What if North Korea actually launches a nuclear armed missile toward the U.S. and it actually hits the west coast and explodes? -SP

 

[Sundog]

I think it would depend on if it is before or after the Martian invasion, in terms of viability.

"If", and that's a massively huge if, it did happen, it would be the end of North Korea, not that that would actually take much. The only thing we would possibly nuke there would be their actual nuclear program. But I doubt we would actually use nukes, we would use MOABs to take out their nuke program, take out their military with precision strikes, and it's safe to say their entire ruling body would become much too familiar with our latest drone technology.
We also might bring back the BUFFs to carpet bomb their infantry when they try to roll into SK.

The only real question would be what would be China's response when NK invades SK and how that is handled.

 

[bobbymike]

Bomb them back to the stoneage...........oh wait.

Actually it is a great question when deterrence fails because some tyrant does not care about the counter strike, what do you do? Do you automatically nuke them back killing a bunch of innocent Norks or invade with conventional forces risking tens of thousands of casualites to basically kill one man?

 

[GTX]

One way would be to instigate a internal coup with someone you could control. Not saying that is possible here but you never know.

 

[GTX]

As odd as it sounds the one man one bullet approach might be the best in such a situation where deterrence fails. Kind of like a game of geostrategic rock-paper-scissors.

Nuke defeats Tank
Tank defeats Bullet
Bullet defeats Nuke (in hands of madman)...

Now if only it were that easy...

 

[Michel Van]

If North Korea start a "preventing" nuclear strike on USA

it will be in very deep trouble, while the US President start the counter attack on North Korea.
The Chinese military will also become very active, they will not tolerate a amok running State on there border.
Russia under Putin&Medelev also not.
So if the US Minutemen warheads reach North Korea, the chinese and russian nukes have hit there target's

in end the Chinese People Army will overrun North Korea, break every resistance with extreme brutal force.
and transform North Korea into province of People Republic of China...

 

[Abraham Gubler]

What if North Korea actually launches a nuclear armed missile toward the U.S. and it actually hits the west coast and explodes? -SP

Lots of people will die at ground zero and then the USA will destroy North Korea with limited use of nuclear weapons and massive conventional air power followed by a ground invasion.


But don’t worry it isn’t going to happen. Most people misunderstand North Korea because they take all their ‘for external consumption’ BS seriously. You want to understand them read their internal propaganda. Can’t access this then read the book based on it: “The Cleanest Race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why it Matters” by B.R. Myers. Basically the North Koreans believe, and somewhat rightly so, that their sabre rattling forces other nations to respond to them and pay them “tribute”. So all these threats are all about getting more stuff. They do want to unify Korea on their terms and will use force to do so but they don’t want to get destroyed by the USA and a more powerful RoK. So they bide their time until these two obstacles are gone.

 

[piko1]

ouch w8 a sec we are going to watch Afghanistan 2.0 but with US Army humiliation that would be epic
i bet on the Abraham's scenario but that would look lot like Afghanistan for the Russians ;D

 

[Orionblamblam]

ouch w8 a sec we are going to watch Afghanistan 2.0 but with US Army humiliation

Yes, if the US went to real war against the Norks, the US Army would be faced with humiliation. It would be a bit embarassing to so utterly crush a military such as the North Koreans have, but that's their job.

 

[Michel Van]

ouch w8 a sec we are going to watch Afghanistan 2.0 but with US Army humiliation

Yes, if the US went to real war against the Norks, the US Army would be faced with humiliation. It would be a bit embarassing to so utterly crush a military such as the North Koreans have, but that's their job.

very embarrassing for the pentagon, to defeat a enemy who hardware level is from 1970s and got hardly fuel to run it...

 

[Abraham Gubler]

very embarrassing for the pentagon, to defeat a enemy who hardware level is from 1970s and got hardly fuel to run it...

Maybe so but this doesn't describe the KPA so isn't very relevant in this discussion thread.

 

[piko1]

it seems that you miss understand me allot i was talking for something like the Vietnam war with stuff like Viet Cong rebels etc.

if we are talking about what-if lets get lil dirty what about War on US soil what would happen then

 

[Bill Walker]

Have to agree here. Yes,the US military would utterly crush organized NK defences. That would be the end of it, just like it was in Iraq and Afghanistan....

 

[TomS]

it seems that you miss understand me allot i was talking for something like the Vietnam war with stuff like Viet Cong rebels etc.

You woudn't see any such thing in North Korea. Insurgencies depend on external sources of supply to keep going, and there just aren't any in this scenario. If North Korea restarts hostilities on the peninsula, China isn't going to be on their side this time (maybe neutral politically at worst, depending on how it got going, but no chance of them being an active supporter).

if we are talking about what-if lets get lil dirty what about War on US soil what would happen then

War on US soil? With whom, exactly? Don't tell me you think Red Dawn is a documentary...

 

[Bill Walker]

If North Korea restarts hostilities on the peninsula, China isn't going to be on their side this time

Probably yes, but not automatically yes. If the Chinese think it is to their benefit to tie up America in another Asian non-conventional war, they will do it. The US has gotten angry in the past about Chinese support of "the axis of terror" (or whatever it was called that week) but hasn't really been able to do anything about it.

 

[Hobbes]

The problem with military action against NK is the massed artillery along the DMZ that's aimed at Seoul. The North's defeat is inevitable, the question is how much damage can they do before that?

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

Have to agree here. Yes,the US military would utterly crush organized NK defences. That would be the end of it, just like it was in Iraq and Afghanistan....

Or France, not every war becomes an insurgency :

There are plenty of people who believe its just a matter of years before we see a united Korea in the same manner we saw a united Germany. No shots need be fired.

A quick note on nukes:

Accuracy does count even with Nuclear Weapons, If a Korean nuke were to fall short of the west coast and detonate over water or hit the outskirts of a city rather than downtown, North Korea will have invited a hell storm on themselves for very little. Not that the US wouldn't be enraged, and that our nukes are more accurate and we have more in one submarine than NorK wet dreams.

The ability to throw a punch or two doesn't make you a world class boxer.

 

[Orionblamblam]

If the Chinese think it is to their benefit to tie up America in another Asian non-conventional war, they will do it.

Consider that the hypothetical at the heart of this discussion is North Korea nuking Americans. In that case, the Chinese would have a few options:
1) Defending the Norks. The crazy Norks who have nothing of value to offer China. The Norks who have *massively* pissed off the one nation on the planet that has ever used nukes to end a war.
2) Deciding that continuing to do business with the US is good for the bottom line.

If the Chinese come in on the side of the Norks, even if only kinda-sorta, America will stop importing cheap Chinese consumer crap. And the Chinese economy will collapse. Will they risk that for Kim Jong Etcetera?

 

[Orionblamblam]

You woudn't see any such thing in North Korea.

If the Norks nuke the US, they will be utterly crushed. Even with Obama at the helm. Hell, if the Norks manage to take out Obamas favorite golf course, he might order a complete nuclear erasing of North Korea.

If the Norks nuke the US, it's a safe bet that they will also plaster Seoul with artillery. So what you'd have is a US totally PO'ed and taking out Nork strategic capabilities (including troops) from the sky... and millions of PO'ed South Koreans swarming north looking for payback. Hard to see how there'd be any sort of viable Nork insurgency here.

War on US soil? With whom, exactly?

Note the first post asked about the hypothetical of a Nork missile reaching the US. That would be "war on US soil."

 

[Justo Miranda]

What if the bomb does not explode?

 

[Orionblamblam]

It should make no difference. Someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back.

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

It should make no difference. Someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back.

ITs the thought that counts.

 

[piko1]

War on US soil? With whom, exactly?

Note the first post asked about the hypothetical of a Nork missile reaching the US. That would be "war on US soil."

no i dont mean that i mean a war as the American Revolutionary War it seams that USA could be only the aggressor it wont deal with a real war to hell things like the attack on Pearl Harbor and 9/11 showed that USA defence national guard or what ever looks just as decoration with out any real advantage to the national security if i was going to attack USA i would attack from the inside out
in the end who would allow USA to retaliate Russians Chinese even west Korea wont alow the use of Nukes from USA it will trigger a response from the Russians hello Russia is the half part of Asia almost

 

[Orionblamblam]

Ummm... what?

 

[piko1]

let me put the question straight can or can not USA defend her self with out any offensive actions

 

[Bill Walker]

If I understand piko1's question:

Can the USA stop a nuclear missile attack against US soil, or is their only defesive option the threat of massive retaliation after the first strike?

 

[chuck4]

let me put the question straight can or can not USA defend her self with out any offensive actions

Yes.

 

[piko1]

Thanks Bill that's exactly what I meant but stoping a nuclear missile attack wold be only the top of the iceberg

 

[chuck4]

It's not in America's long interest to launch any crushing nuclear counter attack if it could be avoided because in the long run, a crushing nuclear attack would prompt the proliferation of nuclear weapons to fence sitters capable of, but otherwise may not have not chosen, to go the nuclear route.

When the short term of effect of shock and awe of a massive nuclear retailation wears off, proliferation of nuclear weapons would devalues both the conventional and the nuclear arsenals of current nuclear powers, so in the long run it would constrict America's margin of effective superiority, and thus freedom of action.

So if North Korea were to deploy a nuclear weapon against US, it would be the perfect justification for the US to directly threaten the Chinese with nuclear retailiation to keep them out of the conflict, and thus ensuring a short war with little lasting quagmire, but the US should restrict itself to using conventional weapons in the actual persecution of the war.

 

[piko1]

chuck
Can you stop Nuke that fly's to the east/west coast right now in this moment

 

[Abraham Gubler]

It's not in America's long interest to launch any crushing nuclear counter attack if it could be avoided because in the long run, a crushing nuclear attack would prompt the proliferation of nuclear weapons to fence sitters capable of, but otherwise may not have not chosen, to go the nuclear route.

When the short term of effect of shock and awe of a massive nuclear retailation wears off, proliferation of nuclear weapons would devalues both the conventional and the nuclear arsenals of current nuclear powers, so in the long run it would constrict America's margin of effective superiority, and thus freedom of action.

So if North Korea were to deploy a nuclear weapon against US, it would be the perfect justification for the US to directly threaten the Chinese with nuclear retailiation to keep them out of the conflict, and thus ensuring a short war with little lasting quagmire, but the US should restrict itself to using conventional weapons in the actual persecution of the war.

It depends a lot on how those nuclear weapons are used. Unfortunately we are all influenced by the predominance of cultural products even when they are counter knowledge . Especially in nuclear weapons. This means the typical thought process of thinking about the use of nuclear weapons is massive destruction, annihilation and nuclear winter. Which would be the case if the USA responded to a successful or unsuccessful DPRK nuclear attack with multiple warhead airbursts against every North Korean city. Which would kill a lot of people and flatten a lot of real estate and look all “The Day After” but unfortunately not manage to kill Steve Guttenberg.

But in reality an American counter attack would see limited use of small nuclear warheads to destroy the KPA’s offensive military potential. Their nuclear facilities, hardened air bases, command centres and entrenched artillery concentrations. While this wouldn’t be nice to the North Korean countryside it would hardly be noticed around the world. It would open up the KPA and DPRK state to conventional military destruction. No doubt Greenpeace and the like would sh*t themselves with seismograph reports of ground bursts and slightly elevated readings from Japanese Geiger counters but the civilian disaster level would be lower than a nasty earthquake.

I would imagine that far from being a level to proliferation it would act as a counter. Because it would demonstrate that acquiring a nuclear arsenal would not have the effect of deterring World Power level military attention.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

chuck
Can you stop Nuke that fly's to the east coast right now in this moment

I don't know if he could do it personally but I'm sure the US military would be able to defeat a small scale salvo.

 

[piko1]

and how exactly ?

that's the interesting part

 

[Orionblamblam]

and how exactly ?

The US Navy has had anti-ICBM capability for some time in the form of the Aegis cruisers with SM-3 missiles. They *should* be able to take out an incoming Nork missile, but you never know.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

and how exactly ?

that's the interesting part

http://www.mda.mil/

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

It's not in America's long interest to launch any crushing nuclear counter attack if it could be avoided because in the long run, a crushing nuclear attack would prompt the proliferation of nuclear weapons to fence sitters capable of, but otherwise may not have not chosen, to go the nuclear route.

When the short term of effect of shock and awe of a massive nuclear retailation wears off, proliferation of nuclear weapons would devalues both the conventional and the nuclear arsenals of current nuclear powers, so in the long run it would constrict America's margin of effective superiority, and thus freedom of action.

So if North Korea were to deploy a nuclear weapon against US, it would be the perfect justification for the US to directly threaten the Chinese with nuclear retailiation to keep them out of the conflict, and thus ensuring a short war with little lasting quagmire, but the US should restrict itself to using conventional weapons in the actual persecution of the war.

It depends a lot on how those nuclear weapons are used. Unfortunately we are all influenced by the predominance of cultural products even when they are counter knowledge . Especially in nuclear weapons. This means the typical thought process of thinking about the use of nuclear weapons is massive destruction, annihilation and nuclear winter. Which would be the case if the USA responded to a successful or unsuccessful DPRK nuclear attack with multiple warhead airbursts against every North Korean city. Which would kill a lot of people and flatten a lot of real estate and look all “The Day After” but unfortunately not manage to kill Steve Guttenberg.

But in reality an American counter attack would see limited use of small nuclear warheads to destroy the KPA’s offensive military potential. Their nuclear facilities, hardened air bases, command centres and entrenched artillery concentrations. While this wouldn’t be nice to the North Korean countryside it would hardly be noticed around the world. It would open up the KPA and DPRK state to conventional military destruction. No doubt Greenpeace and the like would sh*t themselves with seismograph reports of ground bursts and slightly elevated readings from Japanese Geiger counters but the civilian disaster level would be lower than a nasty earthquake.

I would imagine that far from being a level to proliferation it would act as a counter. Because it would demonstrate that acquiring a nuclear arsenal would not have the effect of deterring World Power level military attention.

I agree with the counterforce idea. It would have it critics of course, as the A-bombs used on Japan still do today, but it would be (in my mind) practical and justified, I am sure people would call for more, other for less.

 

[Orionblamblam]

If North Korea successfully nukes an American city, it would be vitally important that the US *not* respond proportionally, but instead with nightmarish vengeance. Not only would the citizens of the US demand no less, but to do less would be to invite atack from others. Look at the post 9-11 world. In the year or two after, nations like Libya and North Korea kinda fell over themselves to not tick us off; Libya, for instance, gave up nuclear ambitions. But as the years went by and it became obvious that the US wasn't in the horrible vengeance game - hell, we prosecute our own soldiers for things most other people on Earth take for granted - our enemies didn't give up, but instead have made substantial inroads.

 

[2IDSGT]

What if North Korea actually launches a nuclear armed missile toward the U.S. and it actually hits the west coast and explodes? -SP

Easiest course of action would be... tell China to sort the Norks out for us, or deal with the fallout (literally) when we do it.

 

[starviking]

The US Navy has had anti-ICBM capability for some time in the form of the Aegis cruisers with SM-3 missiles. They *should* be able to take out an incoming Nork missile, but you never know.

I think the SM-3s are only capable of SRBM and MRBM intercepts - ICBMs are just too fast to target with the missile as it currently stands.

 

[starviking]

If North Korea successfully nukes an American city, it would be vitally important that the US *not* respond proportionally, but instead with nightmarish vengeance. Not only would the citizens of the US demand no less, but to do less would be to invite atack from others.

That could be more damaging to US interests: neither Japan nor South Korea would want to deal with the problems of regional fallout, though they would likely be exaggerated - not that that matters in the world of public opinion.