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Vickers Piranha

scorp

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No, not the current AFV, but a family of very small, modular submarines proposed in the mid-Seventies. Anyone have pictures? (I remember seeing them in Interconair's Aviation & Marine magazine.) Thanks.
 

fightingirish

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I will scan a cutaway for you over the weekend.
The source is a german book about navy miget subs and ships.
 

TinWing

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JAZZ said:
drawing of Piranha -
Hmmm.....I wonder if the oversized sail contains a diver lockout chamber like the later Upholders?

I am perplexed by the 3-bladed prop?
 

scorp

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My appreciation to everyone for their replies to date. Already have that cutaway, but it's a very poor copy--perhaps yours is better? If I recall correctly, the smallest versions only had a crew of 3. Cutaway seems to show a larger variant.
 

covert_shores

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Hi,

This design was actually German. A mockup was built but no sales do never built. Was designed to carry two chariots of Cosmos CE2F family or similar.
 

covert_shores

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JAZZ said:
I can't confirm this is a German design - but here is the life sized mock-up and cutaway
great photo, not seen that before :)

Re design. It was designed by Ulrich Gabler of IKL. No doubt Vicker's engineers had input but it was basically the product of the UK-Germany collaboration at a time when west Germany had difficulties exporting, and UK had stupidly squandered it's 'midget submarine' capability. The Israeli Gal class (a midget sub in RN /MoD terms) was the only sale but vickers marketed a range of German designs throughout the 1970s. Seems odds as they were competing with other IKL designs which in the end got the orders.
 

covert_shores

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Article and illustrations on the MSV-75. http://www.hisutton.com/Unbuilt%20project%20MSV-75%20Special%20Forces%20submarine.html
 

Foo Fighter

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Surprised at the inclusion of an attack periscope in a vessel with no apparent attack capability.
 

Jgwilymp

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Surprised at the inclusion of an attack periscope in a vessel with no apparent attack capability.
If you’re referring to the very slender mast at the aft port corner of the access hatch in the top of the sail (fin) to the wet/dry lockout chamber, my guess is that it’s an HF communications whip aerial. The search periscope is clearly identifiable as such, penetrating the hull to terminate in the classic observer’s eyepiece. I seem to remember reading somewhere that an alternative load in place of the pictured CosMoS CE2F chariot was one, or possibly two heavyweight torpedoes (mentally pictures a brace of Spearfish torpedoes being used as auxiliary propulsion). However, I can’t remember where I read that, and I could be wrong. Certainly I agree that it’s very unlikely to have two ‘scopes.
 

Jgwilymp

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From the same Elite and their Support book, the following description:
“Piranha Special Purpose Submarine
Manufacturer: Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering Ltd., Barrow Shipbuilding Works, PO Box 6, Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria LA14 1AB, England

This small submarine, with its hull form and other features designed to generate little noise, can position special forces with their weapons and equipment close to a target beach. Swimmers leave and re-enter the submarine while it is submerged. The Piranha's small size and manoeuvrability also enable her to enter harbours and lay bottom mines. Her third role is surveillance, when her smallness and quietness contribute to undetected periscope observation of enemy activity. The general arrangement of the boat provides a control room, aft of which is the cargo personnel accommodation with bunks, above one 60-section lead-acid battery cells, and in the stern is the engine with its motor/generator. Forward of the control room is the diver's lock-out chamber and crew accommodation above the second 60-section batteries. The external hull extends forward and aft of the pressure hull and contains the main ballast tanks and bow sonar array. Inflatable craft and swimmers' aids are carried in the superstructure casing. The endurance of the Piranha is over 1,500 km on operations with a maintained 7 km/hr submerged for eighteen hours. On passage or continuous patrolling while snorting, the boat has a range of 3,300 km and carries sufficient stores for a patrol of twelve days.”
 

TomS

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Certainly I agree that it’s very unlikely to have two ‘scopes.
The diagrams are labeled and one (005) clearly shows an attack scope.

For mine laying in denied areas, I'd definitely be wanting the small scope head of an attack scope.
 

Jgwilymp

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Certainly I agree that it’s very unlikely to have two ‘scopes.
The diagrams are labeled and one (005) clearly shows an attack scope.

For mine laying in denied areas, I'd definitely be wanting the small scope head of an attack scope.
My apologies. My cutaway (the grayscale one) doesn’t appear to show one, although it’s hard to be sure given the small size of the original and the large halftone dots. As you said, close inshore you’d want to be as sneaky as possible.
 
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