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Various Russian Prototypes and Projects During & Pre-WW1

Iron Felix

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Engineer Rinne gas-generation engine, with special powerful fuel, for aircraft. Weight, with water and without fuel - "not bigger than 0.2 kg on 1 hp"
00000210.jpg
 
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Iron Felix

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AMBS (A. Mikulin and B. Stechkin) opposyte engines
Type A - four-cilinder, diceplacement - 11.52 L, dry weight 320 kg, power 250 HP at 2300 rpm (1.28 kg/HP, 21.7 HP/L). Builted in 1916-1917.
Type D - double-cilinder, diceplacement - 3.8 L, dry weight 192 kg, power 200 HP at 2000 rpm (0.96 kg/HP, 52.63 HP/L). Project, planned to realise at 1917-1919.
00000605.jpg
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Also, I thread about 500 HP version of AMBS in 1918-1919, but I haven't data about this project. Also, I thread about powerful version of AMBS D, with 300 hp at 3000 rpm.
 
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natewillcome4you

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There's the Svyagotor bomber (1 built), detailed in another post, The Sikorsky S-11 (1 built), and the Sikorsky S-20 (5 built), the Sikorsky S-18 (1 built), the Sikorsky S-15 (1 built), the Sikorsky S-13 and 14 (0 built), Sikorsky S-17 (2 built), The Sikorsky S-19 (1 built), and the airship projects Gigant (1 built), and the Vozdushniy Kreyser (0 built). Hope this helps y'all out. the S-18, svyagator bomber, S-19, and the airships interest me the most, though ww1 aviation in general fascinates me.
 

hesham

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Thank you Natewillcome4y,

and can you tell us more about S-13,S-14 & S-15 ?.
 

natewillcome4you

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Apophenia

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... more about S-13,S-14 & S-15 ?.

i[]Sikorsky Archives News[/i], January 2012, page 7

The S-13 and S-14 aircraft were started, but they were not completed, because of difficulties in receiving the engines during the early period of the war years.

The light bombing aircraft S-15 powered with 125 hp Argus engines was a highly-modified variant of the S-10 series. The wingspan was 55 feet, and the maximum speed was about 60 miles per hour. In mid summer 1914, it was converted from land gear to a float plane configuration and assigned to the Russian Navy’s Baltic Fleet.

According to airwar.ru, the S-15 was sent to Reval for testing as a floatplane in October 1914 but failed to meet naval requirements.

I would question Sikorsky Archives' statement about the S-15 being "highly-modified". The S-10 could be fitted with an Argus inline (albeit a 4-cylinder not a 6) but the weight difference would not be extreme. The quoted S-15 wingspan of 55 feet is only 5 and 2/5th inches off the S-10 span of 55.45 feet (16.9 m). That sounds more like rounding off than any major changes to the wings. So, where is the need for extensive modifications to the base airframe?
 

natewillcome4you

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Cliff notes on the Gigant:
635,600 cubic feet, 105 or 150 meters long, depending on the sources below, 16m in diameter, top speed 40mph, ceiling 11,000 feet, 20 hours endurance

Are there any primary sources to verify the size? qAlso, I can't find any info on the intended follow up design, the Vozdushniy Kreyser.
Were there any designs for a follow on to the Ilya Muromets?
 

Vasily41

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Nothing more than what's on wikipedia for them I'm afraid.
I guess the Le Grand could be considered a viable candidate for this thread, as it was designed in part for strategic reconniasance
I found this interesting aircraft on the Russian wikipedia
That is the Grigorovich/Shishmariov GASN. It was the world’s first float torpedo-bomber.

More info: https://translate.googleusercontent...700283&usg=ALkJrhh6VWGh-5owe_M47iMY6VjKLX5Lng
 

ucon

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Hi,


Mr. V.S. Keburiya built a glider aircraft in 1909,also designed and built a monoplane in 1912
or No.2,followed by No.3 in 1913,which similar to Morane but Nieuport-type undercarriage,
who has a pictures or drawings to them ?.
Here are couple of Keburia pix (from five)
 

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natewillcome4you

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Some more finds:

The Engels MI, a comparatively fast flying boat fighter prototype, 60 were planned, 2 were built

The Anatra Anadva, a twin fuselage bomber prototype, 1 built

The Anatra DE, a rather unique 3 engined bomber prototype, 1 built

In addition, to correct an earlier comment I made there were 2 Sikorsky S-17s built, not 1

The Sikorsky S-28, a bomber Sikorsky designed for France in 1918, 0 built

The Savalev reconnaisance quadriplane prototype, 1 built

The Anatra Anadis, a fighter prototype based off of the Anatra DS Ansal reconnaisance biplane, 1 built
 

natewillcome4you

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A project I find very intriguing: The Sikorsky Alexander Nevsky, the successor design to the Ilya Muromets
If anyone can find pictures I'd greatly appreciate it
 

Iron Felix

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A project I find very intriguing: The Sikorsky Alexander Nevsky, the successor design to the Ilya Muromets
If anyone can find pictures I'd greatly appreciate it
I also know about this project, but... It's, I think, hoax machine. 250 kmph - ok, 1.5 ton load - ok, light metal in construction - ok, but... 12.7, 15.2 mm machine guns, 25 mm cannon... Kurchevskiy gun... And... 5-inch rockets... Leonid Kurchevskiy in this period worked at mechanical catapulte, and, his first recoiless guns - late 1920th. And, "Alexander Nevskiy" - detail of very weird legend about "Ilya Murometz", who destoyed a German tanks by firing of 25-37 mm cannons, and armoured cars by 12.7 mm machine gun. For 9-ton bomber from WW1 it's very big. It's a really heavy drugs. I think, "Alexander Nevskiy" created by one of small-known Russian writer, in alternative history books. And... Where is photos with this airplane? We have many photos with "Svyatogor", but, "Svyatogor" wasn't flying. "Alexander" flying, and we haven't a photos. Where is details of 12.7, 15.2, 25 mm guns? Where is documents? It's one of "unknown wunderwaffe", with K-1000 battleship, nuclear bullets, nazi UFO, etc. Yes, in Russia projected machines with big load, with armour, 3-inch recoiless cannons, light metall, light engines, but... Built this machine in 1916-17? It's not realistic.
 

Aubi

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Weird that all those Russian books and authors starting with Shavrov completely forgot to mention this wonderful machine... Including Marat Khairulin's monography about Ilya Muromets. Not a word about this alleged succesor. Fake.
 

igor-mich

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When you stop dragging any nonsense here from the Alternative History website. And Wikipedia also has unverified information. But Shavrov and the rest did not write about “Alexander Nevsky” because of the lack of this aircraft neither in the project nor in reality.
 

igor-mich

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Read carefully
 

natewillcome4you

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Read carefully
Well damn, wish I saw that. And no, I don't get my shit from alternate history websites, several sites mentioned it and the closest thing I could find to someone saying it's a fake project was someone suggsting it's just a mix up wit an ilya muromets called the Alexander Nevsky. My apologies.
 

Iron Felix

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Other projects:
- Yuryev 1918 "Heavy four-engine airplane"
- Slesarev 1917-1921 bomber project, bigger than "Svyatogor"
- Armoured assault gyrodyne, with two propellers, "wings-parachutes", with periscopes, can swin and plunge - engineer Shustov, 1915, project closed - "We haven't a powerful engines for this machine"
- Transatlantic transport gyrodyne with six 3-metres propellers (four helicopter and two airplane) - worker A. F. Hohlov from Putilov plant
- Big gyrodyne, from 20 to 200 kmph, and 30 hours of flight - technicist A. Malyavskiy from Kiev, 1910
- Assault gyrodyne-gunship with machine guns, four rotors and four steering propellers, named a "air ship" - V. A. Subbotin from Petrograd, 1915
- Light helicopter with eight rotors and two side propellers, full weight 1280 kg, four 100 HP engines - A. R. Abramson, 1914
IMG_20191212_183520.png
 

hesham

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Other projects:
- Yuryev 1918 "Heavy four-engine airplane"
- Slesarev 1917-1921 bomber project, bigger than "Svyatogor"
- Armoured assault gyrodyne, with two propellers, "wings-parachutes", with periscopes, can swin and plunge - engineer Shustov, 1915, project closed - "We haven't a powerful engines for this machine"
- Transatlantic transport gyrodyne with six 3-metres propellers (four helicopter and two airplane) - worker A. F. Hohlov from Putilov plant
- Big gyrodyne, from 20 to 200 kmph, and 30 hours of flight - technicist A. Malyavskiy from Kiev, 1910
- Assault gyrodyne-gunship with machine guns, four rotors and four steering propellers, named a "air ship" - V. A. Subbotin from Petrograd, 1915
- Light helicopter with eight rotors and two side propellers, full weight 1280 kg, four 100 HP engines - A. R. Abramson, 1914
View attachment 623148
Many thanks to you Iron,

can you show their drawings ?.
 

Iron Felix

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can you show their drawings ?
I haven't drawings of this projects, with the exception of Abramson project, only descriptions, from book, "Helicopter of pre-revolutionary Russia", V. Miheev, 1992.
...
Other helicopter project, with drawing, by A. Z. Tsvetkov, 1914:
IMG_20191213_134309.png
Two 6.4 metres rotors, two push propellers, two 500 HP engines.
 

Iron Felix

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00000126.jpg
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1917, november. About engines, Fiat 240 HP and Renault 280 HP, and airplanes for this engines:
"We have 69 Fiat and ~400 Renault, but, we can't use this - we haven't airplanes for this engines"
"We need a scout with 280 HP Renault"
"Today, Russo-Baltique plant work at new variant of "Ilya Muromets" for 280 HP Renault"*
"Professor Bothezat cobstructed apparatus with 220 HP Renault, with push propeller and 150 kmph, and, projected new apparatus with 280 HP Renault, with 180 kmph", "rebuilding of apparatus to tractor propeller not difficult, and, it should improved the data"
In other documents, power of Fiat - 230 or 240-260 HP.
In 1918 april suggested of produce ~70 D.H.4 on Dux plant, with this Fiat engine. Real produce - only in 1921, 20 machines.
...
Requirements for new fighter (1918):
00000262.jpg
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Maximum speed on 2000 metres - no less 190 kmph
Minimum speed - no more 80-90 kmph
Service ceiling - no less 7000 metres
Time of flying - 2 hour with maximum speed
Also - reliability, simple service, good controllability
And, weapons:
- Two forward-firing machine guns, with ammunition no less 750 rounds on one gun (minimal - 500 rounds)
- Or, one cannon, with ammunition no less 50 rounds
...
Continuation of Kashirin engine - 8-cilinder, 270-300 HP (1919 april):
00000520.jpg
00000521.jpg
00000522.jpg
...
*I think, this "Ilya Murometz" - it's unrealised "type J".
Also, 280 HP Renault in documents also named a 300 HP.
Also, suggested a variant of rebuilding of "Ilya Muromets" for 360-400 HP Rolls-Royce Eagle engines, for increase of speed to no less 160 kmph.
 
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Iron Felix

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Glazirin (Rus. Глазырин) rotary engine, 1916:
00000102 orig.jpg
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Potential, 2 times more powerful than standart engines in analogical diceplacement. Problems - cooling and gasket.
Analogical engine:
...
And, other weird engine, Pozhezhinskiy lightweight speed engine, with opposite moving piston and cilinder, from Soviet patent, 1915/1927:
2115-dvigatel-vnutrennego-goreniya-3.png
 
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samardza

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Maybe someone has this somewhere. Years ago I ran across this in a illustrated reference book. A fighter that was a biplane for take off and landing, but retracted the lower wing and wheels into the upper wing. I think they just had an artists 3 view. Anyone know this?
 

Grey Havoc

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We definitely have that design in this forum, but my brain is so fogged at the moment that I can't give you any details at the moment, sorry. If no one has else answered you by the morning, I'll have a dig around for it.
 

Iron Felix

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Perhaps you're thinking of Nikitin? The Nikitin-Shevchenko IS-1 fits your description.
Also, other analogical projects:
Medvedev, 1931 (in USA):
i_343.jpg
Grohovskiy, "Biplane-monoplane", 1935:
i_344.jpg
Kozlov, "R.S." (Rekord Skorosti - Record Speed, over 800 kmph), 1940
...
I heard about of this idea in WW1 period, but, I can't found data.
 
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hesham

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Wow,

new for me,many thanks to you dear Iron.
 

Iron Felix

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Lodigin (Rus. Лодыгин) "Electroflyer", iron helicopter, 1870-1890th, 300 hp electric engine, weight - "no more 500 pood" (8.19 t):
IMG_20200308_221030.jpg
...
"Air ship", L. E. Voevodin, 1909 - 96 tubes, in one tube - 7 rotors (yes, it's a 672-rotor helicopter/gyrodyne). Four paddle wheels. Moving ballast, for transverse-longitudinal control. I haven't data about sizes.
IMG_20200308_223459.png
...
"Air ship", N. Balog, 1909 - eight vertical, two longitudinal and two transverse tubes with propellers and biplane rotors, weight ~3000 kg, lenght 22.5 m, beam 5.5 m, height 2 m:
IMG_20200308_223836.png
 
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Iron Felix

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S. I. Baranovskiy, "Flyer", 1881:
IMG_20200308_233700.png
Wingspan 30 m (150 square meters), lenght of fuselage 5 m, beam 4 m, height 2 m. Empty weight ~1 ton, full weight to 2 tons, 60 HP rotary oil engine, two propellers, folding sail (for use as a kite, with anchor on land), 5-6 crew.
Later, in 1883, Baranovskiy projected ither "Flyer", with four triplane rotors in vertical tubes, and two propellers, engine - 470 HP pneumatic ammoniacal machine.
 

Iron Felix

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"Air ship", I. I. Lepkovskiy, 1904, big helicopters:
IMG_20200309_113254.png
Project of Lepkovskiy, bomber-helicopter, 1904 - full weight 5320 kg, full load 1440 kg, 490 kg bombs, 665 kg fuel on 5 hours. Experimental rotor (16 m diameter) for this helicopter:
IMG_20200309_113554.png
Data on tests (also, 1904) - 40 rpm, 35 steam horse power, lifted load 778 kg. (data, may be inaccurate)
 

Iron Felix

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Blueprints from gwar.mil.ru:
Hispano-Suiza engine with 37 mm gun:
00000135 hispano-suiza 37.jpg
Kasyanenko KPI-5:
00000003.jpg
Data from this drawings - weight 600 kg (empty?), 100 HP Monosoupape engine, maximum speed 198 kmph, minimum - 84 kmph
Povalishin monoplane:
00000019 mon.jpg
00000020 mon.jpg
Zaharin "Hydroairplane"
00000008.jpg
 

Iron Felix

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Also:
37 mm gun on Voisin
00000003 Voisin 37.jpg
"Russkiy Reno" - "Russian Renault" engine, 220-240 HP (later, with other fuel system - 280-300 HP), 125x150 mm ciliders, 22.09 L, 9.96-10.84 HP/L (12.67-13.58 HP/L):
00000013 RReno.jpg
About airships:
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"Need a bomber-airship, for use of big 100-200 pood (1638-3276 kg) bomb" - maybe, biggest concept of aircraft bombs in Russian Empire - later, in USSR, to 1943, biggest bomb - FAB-2000 (2 tons), in WW1 period - 410 and 640 kg (25 and 39 pood) bombs.
 

Iron Felix

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About British Sunbeam engines, 150-450 HP:
IMG_20200404_220802.jpg
Blueprints:
155 HP:
IMG_20200404_220821.jpg
350 HP:
IMG_20200404_220927.jpg
450 HP:
IMG_20200404_220908.jpg
I heard about unbuilt variants of "Ilya Muromets" bombers with two 450 HP Sunbeam.
...
Project of airplane/seaplane/convertiplane, Zelinskiy:
IMG_20200404_223412.jpg
IMG_20200404_223457.jpg
IMG_20200404_223429.jpg
...
Engineer Becker, supercharger:
IMG_20200404_202735.jpg
This supercharger was very interested in the Russian military in 1917.
 
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